Senate resuscitates immigration bill

[Alex+R 0]

Well if all they did was simply entered illegally once and just roamed the country doing nothing else then it would be a different story, but they do more then simply Violate Federal Immigration Laws,

They Work Illegally EVERY DAY, DEFRAUD THE IRS EVERY DAY, DRIVE ILLEGALLY EVERY DAY.

TAKE FROM HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION SYSTEMS EVERYDAY.

Drive drunk, steal, ID theft, murder, violent crime.

So it is more than just simple trespassing or illegally entering "One time"

Dude, you are effing insane. Chill out. Remember that statistic about 12 murders a day by illegal immigrants or something? I'm assuming that's what you're basing this on? Wasn't that created by someone who took the number of illegal immigrants and the number of murders in the U.S. and just extrapolated without any actual data? Yes it was. You're just hateful. I'm sure I'm not alone in tuning out most of what you say on this issue.

I'm sorry to fixate here, but I'm appalled that anyone can go around trumpeting about law-breaking who admits to having committed a serious crime that has killed so many people and does not seem to feel bad. It seems like your morals are based on not only what is legal but what is currently en vogue to be enforced. Your moral system does not extend beyond the laws of the US, does it?

With all due respect you have no idea what my moral system is. Even though it is none of your damn business I will tell you that I gave up drinking 25 years ago. I am not proud of the mistakes I made in my youth and they have not been repeated. I grew up. Seems that some here haven't.

But do you think you should be legally held to account for stuff you did 25 years ago?

That isn't the question and we are not going to take that detour. I have shown that most of them break laws every day while they are here. Instead of discussing that some here resort to personal attacks. I find that interesting.

So in case you missed my question to Steven I will ask it again.

Do you deny that working without EAD is a crime? Do you deny that evading federal and state income taxes is a crime? Do you deny that evading Medicare taxes is a crime? Do you deny that evading SS taxes is a crime? Do you deny that using a fake SSN is a crime? Do you deny that using a stolen SSN is a crime?

If you admit these are crimes then by your own words they should be prosicted. If you don't think they are crimes I invite you to ask the IRS about it.

They're not the 'same' crime though. You're an illegal immigrant once - unless you leave and come back the same way. Anything else you do is secondary, and therefore separate. BTW - not all illegals do those secondary things, and its been pointed out before that you can pay taxes without an SSN.

lets try it again.

§ 1325. Improper entry by alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who

(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or

(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or

(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/usc...25----000-.html

Every day that goes by is a continuation of breaking that part of the law. It isn't a one time thing. Even without that working without EAD is also a crime that they commit every day they go to work.

I'm sure if you look harder you can find some specific caveats to that particular clause which don't rely on your subjective interpretation. The obvious question I would ask is where, exactly, are you likely to meet "immigration officers"?

You can only elude someone who is looking for you.

[Dan J 277]

Not quite, you enter illegally once. You only can commit that crime once (unless you enter more than once). Inspection in this case refers only to entering illegally through a PoE.

Staying falls into different parts of the code, like overstay or working without proper authorization.

Well if all they did was simply entered illegally once and just roamed the country doing nothing else then it would be a different story, but they do more then simply Violate Federal Immigration Laws,

They Work Illegally EVERY DAY, DEFRAUD THE IRS EVERY DAY, DRIVE ILLEGALLY EVERY DAY.

TAKE FROM HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION SYSTEMS EVERYDAY.

Drive drunk, steal, ID theft, murder, violent crime.

So it is more than just simple trespassing or illegally entering "One time"

Again wouldn't the easy way out of this be to make them legal and this be able to collect taxes on them? There are already many who day pay taxes, SSN and Medicare under stolen or fake SSN, but will never be able to use the benefits that come with it.

But they don't violate the entering illegal part more than once. There are other parts of the US law and state law that deal with the other stuff. The case that the continue to commit the entering illegal crime every day they are here is not correct.

Not quite, you enter illegally once. You only can commit that crime once (unless you enter more than once). Inspection in this case refers only to entering illegally through a PoE.

Staying falls into different parts of the code, like overstay or working without proper authorization.

Well if all they did was simply entered illegally once and just roamed the country doing nothing else then it would be a different story, but they do more then simply Violate Federal Immigration Laws,

They Work Illegally EVERY DAY, DEFRAUD THE IRS EVERY DAY, DRIVE ILLEGALLY EVERY DAY.

TAKE FROM HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION SYSTEMS EVERYDAY.

Drive drunk, steal, ID theft, murder, violent crime.

So it is more than just simple trespassing or illegally entering "One time"

Again wouldn't the easy way out of this be to make them legal and this be able to collect taxes on them? There are already many who day pay taxes, SSN and Medicare under stolen or fake SSN, but will never be able to use the benefits that come with it.

Citizen make up most of the people who are driving drunk, steal, committing ID theft and murder.

But they don't violate the entering illegal part more than once. There are other parts of the US law and state law that deal with the other stuff. The case that the continue to commit the entering illegal crime every day they are here is not correct.

[Addie_Goodvibes 0]

Still, poll after poll suggests a sizable majority of the American public, while concerned about illegal immigration and wanting stiffer enforcement, favors some way of granting legal status to those here illegally.

Funny How these polls are done I have read mor epolls that state the opposite for example on last nighjts news KTLA 5 they did a poll on Illegal Immigration

go see for yourself and look at the results.

Have your say immigration Poll

majority of the population Does NOT FAVOR ANY AMNESTY BILL

I am sure if certain groups wanted to manipulate an outcome in a certain poll on immigration they fisrt would write the poll question to the favor of the outcome and secondly they probably polled a community of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

Not quite, you enter illegally once. You only can commit that crime once (unless you enter more than once). Inspection in this case refers only to entering illegally through a PoE.

Staying falls into different parts of the code, like overstay or working without proper authorization.

Well if all they did was simply entered illegally once and just roamed the country doing nothing else then it would be a different story, but they do more then simply Violate Federal Immigration Laws,

They Work Illegally EVERY DAY, DEFRAUD THE IRS EVERY DAY, DRIVE ILLEGALLY EVERY DAY.

TAKE FROM HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION SYSTEMS EVERYDAY.

Drive drunk, steal, ID theft, murder, violent crime.

So it is more than just simple trespassing or illegally entering "One time"

Again wouldn't the easy way out of this be to make them legal and this be able to collect taxes on them? There are already many who day pay taxes, SSN and Medicare under stolen or fake SSN, but will never be able to use the benefits that come with it.

But they don't violate the entering illegal part more than once. There are other parts of the US law and state law that deal with the other stuff. The case that the continue to commit the entering illegal crime every day they are here is not correct.

Not quite, you enter illegally once. You only can commit that crime once (unless you enter more than once). Inspection in this case refers only to entering illegally through a PoE.

Staying falls into different parts of the code, like overstay or working without proper authorization.

Well if all they did was simply entered illegally once and just roamed the country doing nothing else then it would be a different story, but they do more then simply Violate Federal Immigration Laws,

They Work Illegally EVERY DAY, DEFRAUD THE IRS EVERY DAY, DRIVE ILLEGALLY EVERY DAY.

TAKE FROM HEALTH CARE AND EDUCATION SYSTEMS EVERYDAY.

Drive drunk, steal, ID theft, murder, violent crime.

So it is more than just simple trespassing or illegally entering "One time"

Again wouldn't the easy way out of this be to make them legal and this be able to collect taxes on them? There are already many who day pay taxes, SSN and Medicare under stolen or fake SSN, but will never be able to use the benefits that come with it.

Citizen make up most of the people who are driving drunk, steal, committing ID theft and murder.

But they don't violate the entering illegal part more than once. There are other parts of the US law and state law that deal with the other stuff. The case that the continue to commit the entering illegal crime every day they are here is not correct.

NO the correct way woul dbe enforcment, Punsihing them for breaking the law, and Deporting them 5- 10 year BAN

That is penalty for breaking Immigration laws.

[Alex+R 0]

You know what I think would please several members of this board who seem to ascribe all the world's evils to the undocumented immigrants? We should round these people up and put them in work facilities to get projects done for the U.S. government. We could assign them all numbers and feed them soup and bread. They could wear delightful striped pajamas. What do you say?

[smoke20 0]

Sure buddy. With people like you, lawyers and judges would be obsolete.

Whoa...smoke20...be sure to use the quote tags correctly...it's all jacked up.

still waiting for an explaination of the "people like you" comment. do you mean people that don't use a thesaurus to try sound more intellegent? what are you saying steven? you're not trying to start w/ personal insults now are you?

Why do we have judges and lawyers if following a written law requires no interpretation?

well i'm not a law expert, but i have stood before a judge or 2 or 3 IMO judges are there to make decisions based on facts & laws. lawyers are there to tweek or manipulate "interpretate" the law for their cause or their client. i have personally witnessed this "interpretation" on 3 occasions.

[mawilson 2,133]

But do you think you should be legally held to account for stuff you did 25 years ago?

I have a better analogy.

Let's say you steal someone's birth certificate (even a dead person's) and assume their identity.

25 years later, all birth and death records are computerised and your crime is found out.

Should you be allowed to keep the dead person's identity?

Let's say, for argument's sake, that stealing that birth certificate was your only crime, and

you've been an upstanding citizen for 25 years.

Wasn't making an analogy - but rather asking a direct question.

In answer to your analogy - probably not. But in that sense noone cares overmuch about 1 solitary individual. 11 million people have more of a compelling case IMO - purely by virtue of numbers.

It's very similar though. When you commit an illegal act (presumably to make a fresh start),

you have to live with the consequences forever. When you take something that didn't belong

to you (whether a dead person's identity or a place in American society) and build your whole

life on it, you run the risk that your life will collapse like a house of cards when the lie is found out.

It doesn't really matter that you have a family, a house and a career - when you base your

whole life on a lie, everyone and everything in your life are part of the same lie.

[Dan J 277]

Still, poll after poll suggests a sizable majority of the American public, while concerned about illegal immigration and wanting stiffer enforcement, favors some way of granting legal status to those here illegally.

Funny How these polls are done I have read mor epolls that state the opposite for example on last nighjts news KTLA 5 they did a poll on Illegal Immigration

go see for yourself and look at the results.

Have your say immigration Poll

majority of the population Does NOT FAVOR ANY AMNESTY BILL

I am sure if certain groups wanted to manipulate an outcome in a certain poll on immigration they fisrt would write the poll question to the favor of the outcome and secondly they probably polled a community of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS

I'm sure most people realize the cost to our government, economy and communities with mass deportation. And what do we gain? Not much, if anything at all.

Look at the drug war, we spend billions every year in enforcement. But guess what, drugs are still getting through, and because its being done illegally, more crime is created become of it it (People being killed over drug deals gone bad, and that kind of thing).

You can write an immigration bill that focuses only on enforcement, spend billions every year keeping people out, and deporting people. All you will accomplish is drive the illegal immigrants farther underground, and likely into working conditions worse than they get now. Many of them will still be here, and unless you completely shut down the borders on all sides of the country, they will still likely find a way in.

I guess I just see that enforcement only approach will cost alot of money, while accomplishing nothing. Other than to make some people feel good at night thinking that the enforcement of immigration is actually doing something. (Which it really wont)

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm sure some of the anti-amnesty people think that bombing abortion clinics is just.

You ought to be ashamed of yourself making such a ridiculous statement. Try to think before you type.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Its so d### funny to watch ppl get cornered on a subject (Steven, AlexR) and then start the old kansas city shuffle tryin to dodge and weave! Its so F###in obvious what you are doin. It's like a bad comedy. Gary and MA wilsons points right on the money.

I'm CRACKIN UP, LMAO!!!!!!!!

Oh by the way! why dont you guys go out and find some of these ppl and let them stay at your house?

Edited June 27, 2007 by CarolsMarc

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You know what I think would please several members of this board who seem to ascribe all the world's evils to the undocumented immigrants? We should round these people up and put them in work facilities to get projects done for the U.S. government. We could assign them all numbers and feed them soup and bread. They could wear delightful striped pajamas. What do you say?

I see. Those that oppose an amnesty are Nazis. Nice. And I thought the other comment suggesting that those that oppose amnesty also support abortion clinic bombing was the bottom of the barrell but really, this one takes the cake.

[Alex+R 0]

You know what I think would please several members of this board who seem to ascribe all the world's evils to the undocumented immigrants? We should round these people up and put them in work facilities to get projects done for the U.S. government. We could assign them all numbers and feed them soup and bread. They could wear delightful striped pajamas. What do you say?

I see. Those that oppose an amnesty are Nazis. Nice. And I thought the other comment suggesting that those that oppose amnesty also support abortion clinic bombing was the bottom of the barrell but really, this one takes the cake.

I am clearly not talking about everyone or even most people. I'm talking about the people who can only post "these people are murderers and high-level criminals!!!!!" etc etc etc and seem to be frothing at the mouth and obviously just plain angry and looking for an outlet. Your characterization of my post was wrong and I think a bit oversensitive.

[GaryC 7]

Gary, what's your point? We all know it's illegal to enter without inspection. If that is as far as you are willing to think or ponder this question, then you probably shouldn't argue so vehemently and let other people who are willing to think this out have their say.

No, it seems that the pro-amnesty types can't get past the illegal entry part. You think that this is the only crime and it should be forgiven. I think beyond that. The illegals commit other crimes in the course of staying here. They work without EAD, most don't pay taxes, some use forged papers, some use others SSN's and the list goes on and on. Illegal presence does not excist in a vacume. It is just the first crime.

But lets get beyond even that. The reason I am so opposed to the illegals is because of the security aspect of it. Along with those that just want work and don't commit crimes there are others that are criminals. Drug dealers, human trafficers, gangs and potentially terrorists. Because there are so many of the "good" ones they are able to blend in. I personally have nothing against anyone that wants to better themselves. I am all in favor of a guest worker program. But I insist that they do it legally. I am not willing to forgive the way they break our laws and let them stay. I don't want them jailed, I just want them to go home and do it right.

[no name 1]

You know what I think would please several members of this board who seem to ascribe all the world's evils to the undocumented immigrants? We should round these people up and put them in work facilities to get projects done for the U.S. government. We could assign them all numbers and feed them soup and bread. They could wear delightful striped pajamas. What do you say?

:o

WHOA.

[Alex+R 0]

You know what I think would please several members of this board who seem to ascribe all the world's evils to the undocumented immigrants? We should round these people up and put them in work facilities to get projects done for the U.S. government. We could assign them all numbers and feed them soup and bread. They could wear delightful striped pajamas. What do you say?

:o

WHOA.

Oh Jesus motherlovin' Christ. Not all. The rabid closet-bigoted ones. Who completely deserve the comment.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You know what I think would please several members of this board who seem to ascribe all the world's evils to the undocumented immigrants? We should round these people up and put them in work facilities to get projects done for the U.S. government. We could assign them all numbers and feed them soup and bread. They could wear delightful striped pajamas. What do you say?

I see. Those that oppose an amnesty are Nazis. Nice. And I thought the other comment suggesting that those that oppose amnesty also support abortion clinic bombing was the bottom of the barrell but really, this one takes the cake.

I am clearly not talking about everyone or even most people. I'm talking about the people who can only post "these people are murderers and high-level criminals!!!!!" etc etc etc and seem to be frothing at the mouth and obviously just plain angry and looking for an outlet. Your characterization of my post was wrong and I think a bit oversensitive.

My characterization wasn't wrong. You set out to suggest that some of the board members that oppose granting an amnesty to illegal aliens would be fond of the thought to subject those illegal aliens to the treatment that the Nazis subjected Jews and other "undesirables" to in the infamous concentration camps of the Third Reich. As such, your post was wrong and out of line and I'd appreciate if you could at least admit that.