Got my passport back from Vietnamese Embassy

[scy 0]

No, you misunderstand, I *WILL* have the engagement ring for her. I am bringing it with me in May. It is just the Dam Hoi that will take place later. I simply could not afford both. It was impossible.

And now I can spend more on the ring. I wanted to get her a ring that was worthy of her.

In my opinion, you should skip the ring and have an engagement party before her interview. It is more important I think to have the engagement party, rather than a ring. Think of it this way, a ring won't get her the visa, but an engagement ceremony might make the difference between denial and approval.

[Bruce and Han 0]

No, you misunderstand, I *WILL* have the engagement ring for her. I am bringing it with me in May. It is just the Dam Hoi that will take place later. I simply could not afford both. It was impossible.

And now I can spend more on the ring. I wanted to get her a ring that was worthy of her.

Matt,

I am going about it the same as you are. We bought a ring together when I was in HCMC and then I proposed to her, and we did have a small get together at her families house. We took some pictures of the small party, nothing fancy. I did not even know what a Dam Hoi was at the time. So we have the ring and some pictures at her families house ,,thats all.

[Matt_Stevens 5]

In my opinion, you should skip the ring and have an engagement party before her interview. It is more important I think to have the engagement party, rather than a ring. Think of it this way, a ring won't get her the visa, but an engagement ceremony might make the difference between denial and approval.

Unfortunately, her family EXPECTS that I give a ring at the Dam Hoi. That is simply impossible, as I cannot afford both. Anh tried to explain, but did not want her family to think I am poor and cannot take care of her. It is such a delicate matter.

So Anh and I really have no choice. It's the ring and that's that. We have to risk it. What is the alternative? A Dam Hoi where I lose face. Anh loses face. Her parents lose face.

[dalegg 143]

In my opinion, you should skip the ring and have an engagement party before her interview. It is more important I think to have the engagement party, rather than a ring. Think of it this way, a ring won't get her the visa, but an engagement ceremony might make the difference between denial and approval.

Unfortunately, her family EXPECTS that I give a ring at the Dam Hoi. That is simply impossible, as I cannot afford both. Anh tried to explain, but did not want her family to think I am poor and cannot take care of her. It is such a delicate matter.

So Anh and I really have no choice. It's the ring and that's that. We have to risk it. What is the alternative? A Dam Hoi where I lose face. Anh loses face. Her parents lose face.

Boy that is really interesting that you say if you don't have an expensive ring at the engagement ceremony her family loses face. I'll try not to read too much into that, but I even asked my wife about this, and she undeniably, unquestionably agrees with scy. The ceremony is more important than the ring. I'll admit right here that I spent much less on the engagement ring than you plan to, and her family still thought I spent too much. But the idea of not having that ceremony was just out of the question, and for her family's sake, it had nothing to do with bettering our chances of getting the visa approved.

[wait4ever 0]

In my opinion, you should skip the ring and have an engagement party before her interview. It is more important I think to have the engagement party, rather than a ring. Think of it this way, a ring won't get her the visa, but an engagement ceremony might make the difference between denial and approval.

Unfortunately, her family EXPECTS that I give a ring at the Dam Hoi. That is simply impossible, as I cannot afford both. Anh tried to explain, but did not want her family to think I am poor and cannot take care of her. It is such a delicate matter.

So Anh and I really have no choice. It's the ring and that's that. We have to risk it. What is the alternative? A Dam Hoi where I lose face. Anh loses face. Her parents lose face.

Boy that is really interesting that you say if you don't have an expensive ring at the engagement ceremony her family loses face. I'll try not to read too much into that, but I even asked my wife about this, and she undeniably, unquestionably agrees with scy. The ceremony is more important than the ring. I'll admit right here that I spent much less on the engagement ring than you plan to, and her family still thought I spent too much. But the idea of not having that ceremony was just out of the question, and for her family's sake, it had nothing to do with bettering our chances of getting the visa approved.

A ring is a thing. In a wedding the pastor calls it a "symbol of your devotion". Although it may symbolize your committment to each other, it is still just a thing, and in the context of proving your relationship I would say is not rock solid (excuse the pun). Yes, a ring is necessary in a ceremony, but something so expensive that gets in the way of affording a ceremony may undermine what you are trying to achieve here.

So let me get this straight. You will be having a Dam Hoi or Dinh Hon down the road but before she has her interview, right?

The Vietnamese, being very famiy oriented, place an importance upon the comittment that is derived from the engagement ceremony. It's also a part of their face in the community. It says a lot to the family when you step up to the plate by committing in a ceremony.

The Consulate knows this is a part of their tradition, and many of us believe that it is almost expected by the Consular officers. My fiancee and I did not have a Dinh Hon before her first interview. We rushed it and the Consulate has sent us down the road of hell ever since. I didn't know any better at the time.

We had our Dinh Hon after she got blue slipped. It was a wonderful event and really served to solidify our relationship under the pressure we faced from the Consulate. It was a bonding experience with her family too, and this is really an important aspect.

Based on my experience, I would highy recommend that having any kind of ceremony prior to her interview will not only serve you better in that process, but also create a better bond between you, your fiancee, and her family.

[Matt_Stevens 5]

I wish I knew what to do. The ring is not going to cost me 10 grand. I will spend less than 4. Probably 3.5 total. Also, this really is a compromise between Anh and I. She still doesn't grasp how tough HCMC is on visas. And she has not properly explained to her parents my situation. It's been a struggle, really.

Presently she wants to do the engagement ceremony AFTER the Visa is approved so it is much closer to the wedding, my parents can attend, and I can afford to pay for the amount of people that will attend. The biggest problem with the engagement ceremony is that so many people have to attend. It's insane, really and that makes it outragiously expensive. Add a ring and I have no money to spend on my trip for fun between Anh and I. That's why it was decided we won't do the ceremony now.

And no, I cannot just charge it. I am in debt as it is and refuse to get in any deeper.

I'm really confused as to what to do and am ready to have a stroke. I'm so stressed out it's really taking a toll on me.

[kvtran 0]

I wish I knew what to do. The ring is not going to cost me 10 grand. I will spend less than 4. Probably 3.5 total. Also, this really is a compromise between Anh and I. She still doesn't grasp how tough HCMC is on visas. And she has not properly explained to her parents my situation. It's been a struggle, really.

Presently she wants to do the engagement ceremony AFTER the Visa is approved so it is much closer to the wedding, my parents can attend, and I can afford to pay for the amount of people that will attend. The biggest problem with the engagement ceremony is that so many people have to attend. It's insane, really and that makes it outragiously expensive. Add a ring and I have no money to spend on my trip for fun between Anh and I. That's why it was decided we won't do the ceremony now.

And no, I cannot just charge it. I am in debt as it is and refuse to get in any deeper.

I'm really confused as to what to do and am ready to have a stroke. I'm so stressed out it's really taking a toll on me.

Hey, you can do a mastercard commercial based on the engagement ceremony. You can make a few bucks and sell it to them. hehehe

Nightgown = 200 USD

Dowry = 500 USD

Engagement ring = 900 USD

Engagement Party = 1000 USD

Love = Priceless

[Matt_Stevens 5]

Hey, you can do a mastercard commercial based on the engagement ceremony. You can make a few bucks and sell it to them. hehehe

Nightgown = 200 USD

Dowry = 500 USD

Engagement ring = 900 USD

Engagement Party = 1000 USD

Love = Priceless

More like

Dress = 400 USD

Dowry = 500 USD

Engagement Party = 1500 USD

Engagement ring = $4000

Love = Priceless

[patricks 0]

Matt,

My persoanl experience in 2004:

I explained to my wife (girlfriend at that time) and her family that I prefer to get a basic engagement ring ($300) , simple wedding ceremony at her house in the countryside (vs HCMC) I provided transport from HCMC for my friends, etc. Therefore, we had enough money for the visa expenses (bribes, certificates, doctor's appts, shots, etc) and to prepare for our new life in America. What's more important, the ring, OR your future in America. Yes, my wife's friends and her family members (uncles and aunts) said negative things (sometimes normal in Vietnam) BUT the day we went to America together at the Tan Son Nhut Airport, they ALL (100%) were happy for future success. Her whole family changed when they saw that US Visa stamped in her passport.

That's my personal experience..............If she or her family can't accept a basic ring THEN, you may want to take second look? Wait till your wife gets to America, I always have to say to my wife "why did you buy that?" She loves Old Navy, Gap, Supermarkets, etc...I never had that problem in VN?

[3AD 0]

Dress = 400 USD

Dowry = 500 USD

Engagement Party = 1500 USD

Engagement ring = $4000

Love = Priceless

Matt,

I'm going back to VN in May and will have my dam hoi/dam cuoi at that time. I looked at your itemization of expenses. I'm not sure if that's serious, but here's my two cents. I've been involved w/ Vietnamese culture and living and working in Vietnam on and off since 1997. This is just my opinion and you've got to do what you've got to do. Others may disagree. But here goes.

I think you're spending way too much on the ring. I did "both" traditions -- gave her a ring and asked her to marry me "American style" last year ... but knowing that the real deal was when we had a Vietnamese style engagement. I bought her a diamond in HCMC, set in white gold, for around $600 USD. That's about .3 carat. She was elated. (Keep in mind the average salary for VN is less than $1000 PER YEAR.)

But the ring is only part of the jewelry which is expected at the dam hoi/dam cuoi -- which is what is REALLY important to family, community and the consulate. We'll have about 150 people at the ceremony (which is really a dam cuoi/wedding, although we're not getting married on paper). I'll spend about $2000 on that, which will include beer or wine (very important -- you've really got to understand "face" and "community" and "status" and "family" aspects of Asian/Vietnamese culture). The other jewelry, which includes necklace, earrings, will be about $1000. I'm not sure if you've read up on dam hoi/dam cuoi and the trappings involved, but you could search on VJ or even Google and talk to your fiance about it.

So, you're going "American style" and really spending the bucks on the ring. I might recommend balancing your spending and leave more for the ceremony. The bigger the better (almost all Vietnamese go into debt on the ceremony, even though that's not rational, just to "show off" and show everyone in the community -- the ring won't do that) the same way people here might go into debt and "show off" a ring. The Vietnamese, in one word, are ostentatious ... especially with family status. An expensive ring is more individualistic and thus a bigger part of American/Western culture.

I hope this makes sense. I know a lot of this advice can seem confusing. I'd highly recommend talking to your fiance about working in at least a dam hoi (engagement ceremony) with opportunity for pictures, meeting with family, etc., and maybe ratcheting down on the ring. $3500 is a lot of wealth concentrated in one place by Vietnamese standards. I bought my fiance a real Movado watch (almost all in VN are fakes) which was about $400. She's afraid to wear it for fear of thieves sometimes.

That's my tooting of the horn. You guys need to work it out, of course. But keep the words "family," "community reputation," and "status" at the forefront of everything you do in Vietnam. Put "individual" and "American style" at the back.

And be prepared to be very, very patient with everything. Vietnam operates on a "rubber clock" -- things go very slow and rarely on schedule.

Best,

3AD

[patricks 0]

Matt:

Oh yea, I forgot about the wedding photos and we borrowed her sisters earings and necklace just for the photos to show the Consulate. Regarding "saving face", I personally think it's over-rated!.....................(I'm NOT politically correct in VN because I was told many lies so someone else could save face at my expense, different subject)....... It's like buying a Lexus car that looks good, but you can't afford the monthly payments. (looks good on the surface but it's not reality). I basically took control of the sitaution: my wife and I disagreed sometimes, her family didn't agree 100%, BUT we're better off today and it was an easier adjustment to the USA financially. Now, my wife is the most popular person in her family. (Today, she has FACE!) No, I'm not bitter with VN or a VN "basher", I just see it for what it is................(good and bad)

[Matt_Stevens 5]

I am so utterly confused. Basically, I am ready to drop my head into a toilet and drown myself. It does not help that my fiancee does not know what to do and really has no personal experiences with a Dam Hoi, so she is confused and crying about it. She just wants to skip it because she hates being forced by "tradition" to please the older people and the US Consulate.

The one thing she does want, for her parents, are special photos and that will cost $1500. Ouch.

Basically, I will have $3500 for this trip. So I have to pay for hotel, food, travel around the country, the Dam Hoi, pictures and everything that comes with it for $3500. From everything I read here (going back at least a year in posts), that is impossible.

OK, I can forgoe the big diamond. We can do that whenb she gets to the USA.

What can you all advise me to do, knowing my financial situation?

P.S. The stuff a few posts up was just a joke, by the way. Not serious money talk. Just laughing at the "Priceless" thing.

Edited March 29, 2006 by Matt_Stevens

[patricks 0]

My 2 cents:

Firstly don't panic. Have you met her family in person yet? Basically, you have 3 trump cards: Their daughter loves you and she won't be happy without you (you control daughter's happiness #1), You are her vehichle to get a green card to the USA (Daughter's future success for WHOLE family #2) sounds terrible, I know. You are a smart good looking guy (you can charm them a little #3). Go to her house, and explain that you love their daughter, you're NOT wealthy, you want a simple ceremony and that you want to focus on her future in America and how she'll be able to help the family in the future. Short term sacrifice for long-term gain. That's called "losing face", BUT everyone will know today what the reality of the situation is and NOT play this game of expecting you to pay for EVERYTHING and when you can't pay for something ( The "S_ _ _" will then hit the fan in the future)

Lose face today or else you be putting your head in the toilet a lot more, trust me. Finally, if they can't get over her not marrying a wealthy man then you'll have to resort to plan "B". They probably won't be happy at first, so it'll be a good test to see how strong your relationship really is.....(Welcome to Vietnam!)

[dalegg 143]

The one thing she does want, for her parents, are special photos and that will cost $1500. Ouch.

$1500? Damn Matt, where are you getting your prices from? When I get home I'm going to get the contact info for our photographer. I don't think we paid more than $600 for this, and this includes a giant picture for our wall, one of the nicest photo albums I've ever seen, and 3 8 X 14 hard picture stands.

I also don't think you need to give up on your diamond. Remember you are going to Vietnam. If you have $4000, spend $2000 on the engagement party and $2000 on jewelry. Seems simple to me. You are giving me the idea that I should go to Vietnam and become a wedding planner for foreigners. Hmm.

[kvtran 0]

The one thing she does want, for her parents, are special photos and that will cost $1500. Ouch.

$1500? Damn Matt, where are you getting your prices from? When I get home I'm going to get the contact info for our photographer. I don't think we paid more than $600 for this, and this includes a giant picture for our wall, one of the nicest photo albums I've ever seen, and 3 8 X 14 hard picture stands.

I also don't think you need to give up on your diamond. Remember you are going to Vietnam. If you have $4000, spend $2000 on the engagement party and $2000 on jewelry. Seems simple to me. You are giving me the idea that I should go to Vietnam and become a wedding planner for foreigners. Hmm.

Damn, that is expensive. I had mine for 400 bucks. It include one album and a large photo to be hung on the wall. If I recalled correctly, the name of the place is Thai Tai. It is in District 5. Dalegg, I'll be your business partner for the wedding planner.

Edited March 29, 2006 by kvtran