Vegetarians, beware of chocolate!

[homesick_american 1]

The guideline I have read and as given by my nutritionist was 70% - so like I said, high quality chocolate. In moderation.

I'm only going on what I've heard/read/been told.

[Girona40 0]

"I was saying that the average person has a little bit of a hypocritical streak when it comes to eating meat"

I just had to comment on this, I couldn't walk away from it. I just do not understand your way of thinking, on this matter, at all.

"I'm hoping to move back to vegetarianism by the end of summer" - but I don't have a problem eating meat now.

"Difficult when hubster does all the cooking and is a serious carnivore" - I don't see what your husband's eating habits have to do with your choices at all. My husband kills, prepares, cooks and eats meat, but that doesn't mean I do.

"I have never eaten baby animals" - but it's not a problem to eat their parents.

I just don't get your rationale on the subject.

I'm not sure why you've chosen to go after me, someone who at least cares about where my meat comes from, as opposed to most people who eat any old meat. I would like to go back to vegetarianism just to avoid the problem of determining where my meat comes from all the time, not because I have a huge problem eating animals period. In some ways it does bother me, but I always feel healthier when I'm eating meat, so it's difficult for me to decide. I don't like eating baby animals, or cow stomach chemicals, or brains, or sheep testicles, so what? That is no more your business than it's mine how much chocolate you consume. I'm happy to discuss my choices, but I see no need for attacks.

I was going to say the difference between vegetarians and vegans is that vegetarians are usually less pushy and self-righteous about the subject, but I may have to change my view.

I have no need to "go after" anyone - I was, merely, pointing out that I did not understand your rationale.

I still don't understand your reasoning. Where do you get your information that "most people" eat "any old meat"? What is your definition of "any old meat"? To me, meat is meat, the part of a dead animal, considered edible.

This time you say "I have a huge problem eating animals period", but then go on to say you "feel healthier when I'm eating meat".

You "don't like eating baby animals, or cow stomach chemicals, or brains, or sheep testicles, so what?" So, why post it if you don't expect anyone to comment? It is indeed your business and I have no interest in your personal choices, in anything, just curious as to your reasoning. You say are "happy to discuss" your choices, but when someone points out that they don't understand the reasoning behind the choices you are making, you consider it an "attack". Nothing could be further from the truth - I was merely asking you to explain it to me. If you can't do that, or you don't want to, that's fine.

Being "pushy and self-righteous" are not characteristics of vegetarians, vegans, or meat eaters. They are terms that can be applied to any individual who is aggressive or passionate about a subject and intolerent of the opinions of others. Therefore, they can be used to describe any individual with these traits, not just non meat eaters.

[Alex+R 0]

"I was saying that the average person has a little bit of a hypocritical streak when it comes to eating meat"

I just had to comment on this, I couldn't walk away from it. I just do not understand your way of thinking, on this matter, at all.

"I'm hoping to move back to vegetarianism by the end of summer" - but I don't have a problem eating meat now.

"Difficult when hubster does all the cooking and is a serious carnivore" - I don't see what your husband's eating habits have to do with your choices at all. My husband kills, prepares, cooks and eats meat, but that doesn't mean I do.

"I have never eaten baby animals" - but it's not a problem to eat their parents.

I just don't get your rationale on the subject.

I'm not sure why you've chosen to go after me, someone who at least cares about where my meat comes from, as opposed to most people who eat any old meat. I would like to go back to vegetarianism just to avoid the problem of determining where my meat comes from all the time, not because I have a huge problem eating animals period. In some ways it does bother me, but I always feel healthier when I'm eating meat, so it's difficult for me to decide. I don't like eating baby animals, or cow stomach chemicals, or brains, or sheep testicles, so what? That is no more your business than it's mine how much chocolate you consume. I'm happy to discuss my choices, but I see no need for attacks.

I was going to say the difference between vegetarians and vegans is that vegetarians are usually less pushy and self-righteous about the subject, but I may have to change my view.

I have no need to "go after" anyone - I was, merely, pointing out that I did not understand your rationale.

I still don't understand your reasoning. Where do you get your information that "most people" eat "any old meat"? What is your definition of "any old meat"? To me, meat is meat, the part of a dead animal, considered edible.

This time you say "I have a huge problem eating animals period", but then go on to say you "feel healthier when I'm eating meat".

You "don't like eating baby animals, or cow stomach chemicals, or brains, or sheep testicles, so what?" So, why post it if you don't expect anyone to comment? It is indeed your business and I have no interest in your personal choices, in anything, just curious as to your reasoning. You say are "happy to discuss" your choices, but when someone points out that they don't understand the reasoning behind the choices you are making, you consider it an "attack". Nothing could be further from the truth - I was merely asking you to explain it to me. If you can't do that, or you don't want to, that's fine.

Being "pushy and self-righteous" are not characteristics of vegetarians, vegans, or meat eaters. They are terms that can be applied to any individual who is aggressive or passionate about a subject and intolerent of the opinions of others. Therefore, they can be used to describe any individual with these traits, not just non meat eaters.

Please read carefully. I said "NOT because I have a huge problem eating meat period." I don't. I get my information that most people eat "any old meat" because I have pretty much never heard anyone walk into McDonalds and ask where the meat for the burgers came from or ask the waitress at a restaurant where the chicken was from? You are operating on the idea that the only reason someone wouldn't eat meat would be because they think meat is murder. There are other reasons that you aren't taking into account. I only eat meat that I am sure has been brought to my table from animals that were farm-raised in a small local farm. To you it doesn't matter if chickens are raised in tiny cages that destroy their feet and cause painful infections and are given chemicals to turn them into circus freaks, because when someone eats that chicken it's the same as a chicken who was raised in a happy farm life til it was old enough to be eaten. Those things do matter to me and there is a big difference.

If you are really concerned about animal welfare, I hope you don't eat eggs or at least buy some verified small-farm eggs (not just organic) and that you don't eat any products outside the home prepared with eggs. That's where farm animals are treated the cruelest. I think the reasons for vegetarianism have changed with the way meat production has changed and since you have been one for so long you may not be aware of these issues.

What is my business is my business, but I am happy to share it with you or anyone and I am happy to hear comments. However, I hope those comments recognize that each person has their own preferences.

You still haven't told me why you singled me out over all the meat eaters of the world. Any answer?

[Fandango 1,439]

I doubt anyone who's really interested in where the meat was coming from would go to McD's or the like...

Just my .02

[Girona40 0]

"I was saying that the average person has a little bit of a hypocritical streak when it comes to eating meat"

I just had to comment on this, I couldn't walk away from it. I just do not understand your way of thinking, on this matter, at all.

"I'm hoping to move back to vegetarianism by the end of summer" - but I don't have a problem eating meat now.

"Difficult when hubster does all the cooking and is a serious carnivore" - I don't see what your husband's eating habits have to do with your choices at all. My husband kills, prepares, cooks and eats meat, but that doesn't mean I do.

"I have never eaten baby animals" - but it's not a problem to eat their parents.

I just don't get your rationale on the subject.

I'm not sure why you've chosen to go after me, someone who at least cares about where my meat comes from, as opposed to most people who eat any old meat. I would like to go back to vegetarianism just to avoid the problem of determining where my meat comes from all the time, not because I have a huge problem eating animals period. In some ways it does bother me, but I always feel healthier when I'm eating meat, so it's difficult for me to decide. I don't like eating baby animals, or cow stomach chemicals, or brains, or sheep testicles, so what? That is no more your business than it's mine how much chocolate you consume. I'm happy to discuss my choices, but I see no need for attacks.

I was going to say the difference between vegetarians and vegans is that vegetarians are usually less pushy and self-righteous about the subject, but I may have to change my view.

I have no need to "go after" anyone - I was, merely, pointing out that I did not understand your rationale.

I still don't understand your reasoning. Where do you get your information that "most people" eat "any old meat"? What is your definition of "any old meat"? To me, meat is meat, the part of a dead animal, considered edible.

This time you say "I have a huge problem eating animals period", but then go on to say you "feel healthier when I'm eating meat".

You "don't like eating baby animals, or cow stomach chemicals, or brains, or sheep testicles, so what?" So, why post it if you don't expect anyone to comment? It is indeed your business and I have no interest in your personal choices, in anything, just curious as to your reasoning. You say are "happy to discuss" your choices, but when someone points out that they don't understand the reasoning behind the choices you are making, you consider it an "attack". Nothing could be further from the truth - I was merely asking you to explain it to me. If you can't do that, or you don't want to, that's fine.

Being "pushy and self-righteous" are not characteristics of vegetarians, vegans, or meat eaters. They are terms that can be applied to any individual who is aggressive or passionate about a subject and intolerent of the opinions of others. Therefore, they can be used to describe any individual with these traits, not just non meat eaters.

Please read carefully. I said "NOT because I have a huge problem eating meat period." I don't. I get my information that most people eat "any old meat" because I have pretty much never heard anyone walk into McDonalds and ask where the meat for the burgers came from or ask the waitress at a restaurant where the chicken was from? You are operating on the idea that the only reason someone wouldn't eat meat would be because they think meat is murder. There are other reasons that you aren't taking into account. I only eat meat that I am sure has been brought to my table from animals that were farm-raised in a small local farm. To you it doesn't matter if chickens are raised in tiny cages that destroy their feet and cause painful infections and are given chemicals to turn them into circus freaks, because when someone eats that chicken it's the same as a chicken who was raised in a happy farm life til it was old enough to be eaten. Those things do matter to me and there is a big difference.

If you are really concerned about animal welfare, I hope you don't eat eggs or at least buy some verified small-farm eggs (not just organic) and that you don't eat any products outside the home prepared with eggs. That's where farm animals are treated the cruelest. I think the reasons for vegetarianism have changed with the way meat production has changed and since you have been one for so long you may not be aware of these issues.

What is my business is my business, but I am happy to share it with you or anyone and I am happy to hear comments. However, I hope those comments recognize that each person has their own preferences.

You still haven't told me why you singled me out over all the meat eaters of the world. Any answer?

I will answer your last question first. The reason I chose to "respond" to your post was NOT to single you out. I reply to many posts on the VJ site, those posted by meat eaters and vegetarians alike, but yours struck me as one of the most contradictory in its rationale.

I have had no problem in asking at MacDonalds where their meat, and other produce, comes from and have done so. I made a point, back in 1997, which is when MacDonalds came within 40 miles of where I lived, never to purchase from them as they used animal/vegetable fat when producing their fries. Have never touched anything sold by them since.

Not everyone is prepared to eat "any old meat" as you call it. My family will not eat "meat" that is prepared from hoof, hair, skin, etc., i.e. sausages, scrapple, etc. Only meat that they have either killed themselves, or meat produced by companies that treat their animals humanely prior to slaughter. I don't agree with eating meat at all, but the men in my household choose to eat meat and it is not my place to dictate to them that they should do otherwise.

"You are operating on the idea that the only reason someone wouldn't eat meat would be because they think meat is murder". That is a presumptious statement. You do not know what my ideas are on why someone would choose not to eat meat. I did not chose to become a vegetarian for the reason you state, but for other "personal" reasons.

You are quite right when you state that chickens suffer very cruel conditions. I have rescued many battery hens in my lifetime and given them the lives they deserved. So, your comment "To you it doesn't matter if chickens are raised in tiny cages that destroy their feet and cause painful infections and are given chemicals to turn them into circus freaks, because when someone eats that chicken it's the same as a chicken who was raised in a happy farm life til it was old enough to be eaten" is just total BS! You have no idea how I feel about the raising of chickens! Don't tell me, or everyone else on this board that it DOESN'T MATTER TO ME - you don't know me!

I can assure you that I am well aware of the issues of modern-day farming and animal welfare, and like I said, you don't know me, you don't know anything about my beliefs or knowledge on the subject, so please don't make such sweeping remarks about me that are totally untrue, or misguiding. If you are prepared to share your views on the subject, that is one thing, but don't think or presume that your views are that of everybody else here. They are not.

[Alex+R 0]

Listen, I'm not trying to start a flame war on a thread about chocolate here. I'm glad you care about chickens! Rescuing them is also very noble, IMO, and you should be proud of yourself. You just gave me the impression that you saw meat as murder and that there was no middle ground. My comments about most people not caring where their meat came from obviously was not about you, as you're a vegetarian, and not about your family. It was about most Americans. I'm sure you've asked where things came from, but most people don't, and I don't see how you can't agree to that. I will become a vegetarian again, but dietary changes are best made slowly (hence my move to getting meat and most animal products out of my diet by the end of summer). I hope you can live with that and respect the fact that just because you may have misunderstood what I wrote, you can't assume I'm being contradictory or hypocritical. I have actually put thought into this and I'm ok with where I'm at.

[Girona40 0]

Listen, I'm not trying to start a flame war on a thread about chocolate here. I'm glad you care about chickens! Rescuing them is also very noble, IMO, and you should be proud of yourself. You just gave me the impression that you saw meat as murder and that there was no middle ground. My comments about most people not caring where their meat came from obviously was not about you, as you're a vegetarian, and not about your family. It was about most Americans. I'm sure you've asked where things came from, but most people don't, and I don't see how you can't agree to that. I will become a vegetarian again, but dietary changes are best made slowly (hence my move to getting meat and most animal products out of my diet by the end of summer). I hope you can live with that and respect the fact that just because you may have misunderstood what I wrote, you can't assume I'm being contradictory or hypocritical. I have actually put thought into this and I'm ok with where I'm at.

I never thought for one minute you were trying to start a war of any kind, flame or otherwise. I don't know where you got the impression that I saw meat as "murder" and there was "no middle ground". I live with a man who enjoys his steak/bacon/ribs and chops. How could I hold such an opinion and be happily married to such a man?

The one thing, Alex, that really concerns me about your posts is how you generalise, or make sweeping statements. How can you comment about "most Americans" in these situations? Have you spoken to ALL Americans to come up with the view that "most" of them don't care where their meat comes from?

Why do you think that the food industry in America is making such strides to change the product they supply? Why are companies, such as KFC, now informing the public that their product contains "O grams of Trans fat", or MacDonalds switched from animal fat to vegetable oil in its fries? Could it be to do with the fact that they are taking notice of the public's interest in what they are eating?

Unfortunately, Burger King feels that purchasing 10% of its pig meat from farmers that don't use farrowing crates, or that converting to using 2% of it's eggs from free-range sources really cuts it! I think it is a pathetic attempt!

Anyway, I am going to leave this discussion here. I am very comfortable where I sit on this subject and hope that you are happy with the choices you make in your life.

Good Luck!

Again, "most people" don't ask about their food? How do you know that?

Finally, I don't agree that dietary changes should be made slowly and would love to hear of a doctor that said "saturated fat should be eliminated from your diet...............slowly".

I know I can live with the (fact) that you say you are going to return to vegetarianism by the Summer. I have my doubts that you will, though, because you seem to be continually justifying why you eat meat now.

[Alex+R 0]

You may not leave this discussion, but you'll be having it with yourself. I'm sorry, but your tone is just too angry, and I'm making an effort to extract myself from these situations.

[Oath 0]

You may not leave this discussion, but you'll be having it with yourself. I'm sorry, but your tone is just too angry, and I'm making an effort to extract myself from these situations.

Seems to me all veggies are angry at something or other, #### need to eat a steak and relax a bit

[Dawny&Tommy 0]

You may not leave this discussion, but you'll be having it with yourself. I'm sorry, but your tone is just too angry, and I'm making an effort to extract myself from these situations.

Seems to me all veggies are angry at something or other, #### need to eat a steak and relax a bit

[homesick_american 1]

You may not leave this discussion, but you'll be having it with yourself. I'm sorry, but your tone is just too angry, and I'm making an effort to extract myself from these situations.

Seems to me all veggies are angry at something or other, #### need to eat a steak and relax a bit

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Mags 112]

So, the moral of this tale is...ask where your burger comes from and eat Green & Blacks chocolate!

[Oath 0]

So, the moral of this tale is...ask where your burger comes from and eat Green & Blacks chocolate!

And vegitarians are angry people

[Lou Lou 1]

Nah, 70% dark chocolate doesn't have THAT much sugar and fat to have a detrimental effect

(and what's unhealthy about dairy products???)

C'mon, how much sugar does a dark chocolate bar contain?

Very little. A square (10g) of 85% is 1.2g of sugar compared to 10g of Hershey's at 5.5g and 10g of Hershey's dark at 5.25g. Cadbury website is not working for me to check the sugar content. You don't really need to eat more than a square of 85%, and if you do, you're a pig.

I'm a bit of a chocolate snob and find G&B chocolate shite. It pisses me off that they need to put cocoa powder in their 85% which gives it a horrible texture. It's turning into cheap grade stuff IMO. You can get 99% chocolate. It is very bitter but really hits the spot when you need it. Sugar is virtually nil so it's not so bad for you at all. I don't know many people that like it though. I'm just a bit weird and do.

[Girona40 0]

You may not leave this discussion, but you'll be having it with yourself. I'm sorry, but your tone is just too angry, and I'm making an effort to extract myself from these situations.

Seems to me all veggies are angry at something or other, #### need to eat a steak and relax a bit

I am not angry. However, I am extremely disappointed that the moment a vegetarian expresses their views on the subject of meat eating, they are subjected to profanity, such as this. It shows a total lack of maturity and respect for others opinions. Maybe they feel that because they have no answer for the points raised in a post it is simply easier to resort to the use of such derogatory language.

I don't know how you can ascertain my "tone" from the written word, Alex. Just let me say tht you have got it totally wrong.

I have been posting on this site for years and have enjoyed many a good debate with other members. But lately I find some posters unable to participate in such debate without resorting to abusive language. For this reason I will not be participating on this board in future. I hope that all of you have a safe "journey".

G.