What is wrong with the Egyptian gov't.???!!!!!

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

[Becky&Sam 0]

i would like to state that i am happy coz i joined this site to exchange ideas , i was thiniking about that i already know my fiancee good knowing in just 4 months ....but i see when i said that many out there said that its not enough time for relationship but i would like to mentain something here , if u talking daily with someone for Hours and talking in every thing about ur life and his life also , How long time u need to tell all that??? i mean is it not enough for the honest couple to know eachother well in 4 months? i see our relation need only One thing at this moment and its ( meeting in person ),

i hope any one correct for me if i am wrong .

thanks

I agree withyou that I am also happy to have this site to see others views and cultural differences to learn. I have to say that I don't agree with the tone of this thread, in that it questions the validity of a relationship because of where you are born. We know there are many cultural differences (my husband and I) and have talked about them and know that we have a lot to work on. But.......on the turn side of that coin in spite of cultural differences our basic beliefs (Christian) and regardless of what any one's religious affiliation (we both had posted on our personal info site) that personal motto to live by (and this was before we met) that you should always strive in life to treat others as you yourself want to be treated. So to me stating that just because you are of the same descent nationality does not always mean that you are just meant to be with ONLY that nationality. The whole time I am in Egypt with my husband he says how proud he is to have me as his wife and introduces me to all of his coworkers that are his friends, other friends and my last trip I met all of the family. They embraced me with open hospitality and treated me like one of their own family.

BTW my husband and I knew each other a few months less than a year when we talked of marrying and I made my trip there and we both knew was the right thing and got married. We also got to know each other very well with talking online as what else is there to do and i have found that in talking on internet alot of things about a person can be revealed that you would not know if you were talking in person. But, whethere you meet someone here in the US or any country if there is deception it can be hidden and may not be revealed until too late. It has happened to several of my friends and myself in the past with meeting a person face to face and same culture, etc. Sooo basically any big decision you make is a risk no matter how sure you think you are about everything. We also talked about the differences in our culturals and i believe that if he had chosen to marry an Egyptian woman he would have stuck with the cultures from his country, but because he is marrying an AMERICAN girl there are different feelings about his own cultural and mine intermingling. And both of us making compromises on what to expect from each other. Each time that we have been together our feelings about all of this are solid and growing and now our only worries is getting the VISA!!!

There are many other countries that there are ALOT of women who marry American men and I have checked their post interview wait time and is nothing compared to what we are experiencing in Egypt and other ME/NA countries. So i do not understand the target of the Embassy on Egypt so severely or Morocco seems to have a very difficult time too. As i am sure there is just as much fraud comitted at many other embassys for the K3 or K1. I just don't understand this part of the whole conversation here on this thread with only Arab many many cases of fraud can be applied to many other countries as well.

So my anwer to your questions about length of time for having a VALID relationship is there is no necessary time limit, but proof of your times and what you did together and your sincerity and all the things that an CO officer cannot see in a short interview or in a stack of papers. You are taking your chances as we are all that things will pass through USCIS smoothly, which ours did and have a good interview which Sam did and so now just waiting for the AP and praying every day that it will go smoothly without problems too.

THis is the longest post i think i have ever done, but i have been reading comments and views others have on MENA relationships, validity, etc and wanted to share my feelings and experiences.

[peezey 0]

I'd count that among the oddities too. Arab men are proud and chauvinistic. For so many to accept the supremacy of a foreign, non-Arab woman connotes some desparation, imo. But, that's why I posted the article. Call it racist, it spoke to me because I see a social change that is not all for the positive and, as an Arab, it concerns me.

Overall I understand what the article is saying, and agree with most of it, but it's far too easy for MSM to make these sweeping generalizations these days, and that's what I meant by racism.

[Becky&Sam 0]

I know plenty of "arabs" used for papers by country men and I know Americans that are truly loved by their spouses. and this whole supremacy stuff is a bunch of hogwash. Some arab men marry americans ( GUYS WHO HAVE PAPERS) because they find American women much more open minded and less MATERIALISTIC

My husband has always been working very hard since i have known him and he has a lot of plans for our lives and his work when he finally arrives here in US. We have some dreams here to build our own business that would never be possible in Egypt. Do I know that if I met him and I was from another country things would work out the way that they have? NO, but I also know that he loves me because of who I am and I love him because of who he is and that includes our cultural differences which I believe we are embracing and learning to accept through our love for each other.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Same ole same ole.

Ditto.

I would say the same thing about how it's ok to doubt the relationships between women who are much older than their husbands or overweight, or whatever you are not. It seems to be the other way around when it's about what you are. Since the majority of the women here are non-Arab, non-Muslim, better off economically and involved with a man from a culture substanstially different than their own, I didn't expect anything less than what came after what I said because it's hard to hear what affects you being spoken of in the negative.

So, it must be ok to most that older women and fat women remain the only group that can be targeted as "odd". But, the fact remains that just because you're not much older or not Arab or not Muslim doesn't exempt you from fraud either. It may feel safe to point your fingers at someone else, but then you have four fingers pointing back at you.

Same ole, same ole, no doubt!

Frankly, as an Arab, I do have insight on this lacking in most of you, deny it or not.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

i would like to state that i am happy coz i joined this site to exchange ideas , i was thiniking about that i already know my fiancee good knowing in just 4 months ....but i see when i said that many out there said that its not enough time for relationship but i would like to mentain something here , if u talking daily with someone for Hours and talking in every thing about ur life and his life also , How long time u need to tell all that??? i mean is it not enough for the honest couple to know eachother well in 4 months? i see our relation need only One thing at this moment and its ( meeting in person ),

i hope any one correct for me if i am wrong .

thanks

I agree withyou that I am also happy to have this site to see others views and cultural differences to learn. I have to say that I don't agree with the tone of this thread, in that it questions the validity of a relationship because of where you are born. We know there are many cultural differences (my husband and I) and have talked about them and know that we have a lot to work on. But.......on the turn side of that coin in spite of cultural differences our basic beliefs (Christian) and regardless of what any one's religious affiliation (we both had posted on our personal info site) that personal motto to live by (and this was before we met) that you should always strive in life to treat others as you yourself want to be treated. So to me stating that just because you are of the same descent nationality does not always mean that you are just meant to be with ONLY that nationality. The whole time I am in Egypt with my husband he says how proud he is to have me as his wife and introduces me to all of his coworkers that are his friends, other friends and my last trip I met all of the family. They embraced me with open hospitality and treated me like one of their own family.

BTW my husband and I knew each other a few months less than a year when we talked of marrying and I made my trip there and we both knew was the right thing and got married. We also got to know each other very well with talking online as what else is there to do and i have found that in talking on internet alot of things about a person can be revealed that you would not know if you were talking in person. But, whethere you meet someone here in the US or any country if there is deception it can be hidden and may not be revealed until too late. It has happened to several of my friends and myself in the past with meeting a person face to face and same culture, etc. Sooo basically any big decision you make is a risk no matter how sure you think you are about everything. We also talked about the differences in our culturals and i believe that if he had chosen to marry an Egyptian woman he would have stuck with the cultures from his country, but because he is marrying an AMERICAN girl there are different feelings about his own cultural and mine intermingling. And both of us making compromises on what to expect from each other. Each time that we have been together our feelings about all of this are solid and growing and now our only worries is getting the VISA!!!

There are many other countries that there are ALOT of women who marry American men and I have checked their post interview wait time and is nothing compared to what we are experiencing in Egypt and other ME/NA countries. So i do not understand the target of the Embassy on Egypt so severely or Morocco seems to have a very difficult time too. As i am sure there is just as much fraud comitted at many other embassys for the K3 or K1. I just don't understand this part of the whole conversation here on this thread with only Arab many many cases of fraud can be applied to many other countries as well.

So my anwer to your questions about length of time for having a VALID relationship is there is no necessary time limit, but proof of your times and what you did together and your sincerity and all the things that an CO officer cannot see in a short interview or in a stack of papers. You are taking your chances as we are all that things will pass through USCIS smoothly, which ours did and have a good interview which Sam did and so now just waiting for the AP and praying every day that it will go smoothly without problems too.

THis is the longest post i think i have ever done, but i have been reading comments and views others have on MENA relationships, validity, etc and wanted to share my feelings and experiences.

I was really turned off by her comment that being with an American is some how " de manizing" I have a friend from Morocco who was married to an american and they divorced but he was looking for an american wife and gave up and went back home and got hooked up with a Moroccan. All he does is complain to me about her ( he is one of my best friends) He said he cant wait to come back to the states and says he just changed alot and cant relate to the materialism. He told me when an American woman loves you its for you.. he told me he feels like his wallet is open when he deals with arabs.. Each person is unique and different and so is every relationship.

Being arab is no guarantee that your relationship will work. AGAIN.. all I have to do is point out all the French citizens of arab descent that were used for papers and dumped....Also men who left the arab countries and left families behind and never went back.

Family relationships are not always good ones either. Some people in arab countries dont want to be pressured into marrying someone their family wants and I have seen ones ( again another different friend of mine) who married a girl his family liked and he is so miserable. He is living over here and she is in the arab country now for over a year and they had no real life together.. Not to mention Moroccan men with American citizenship getting dumped as soon as their SO gets their papers.. Goes both ways..

I like to stay out of other peoples love lives cause I have enough of my own issues, thank you very much

heheheheheh

[peezey 0]

I know plenty of "arabs" used for papers by country men and I know Americans that are truly loved by their spouses. and this whole supremacy stuff is a bunch of hogwash. Some arab men marry americans ( GUYS WHO HAVE PAPERS) because they find American women much more open minded and less MATERIALISTIC

Let us not get into Arab woman bashing. Open minded can mean anything and many of the men marrying women here are marrying muslimas (conservative), so it's really not a valid argument. Also, the women in the US are self-supporting and buy their own things, not relying on a man to buy them stuff. We are a flipping MATERIALISTIC nation, so that argument is out the window. Arab women don't have the work opportunity we do, yet they are bombarded with images of what we have. So, they want what we want and have, but can really only rely on a husband to get it for them most of the time. Any respectable arab man will not talk ####### about arab women, these are their mothers, sisters, aunts, after all.

[ya falaha! 0]

This isn't about who is superior. I can say...I'm superior because I still have the ability to give my husband children. I'm superior because I'm not 20 yrs older than my husband or because he weighs more than I do. I've had an Arab husband before and I have Arab children. I "get" Arabs. I know the rules. I don't find myself superior because of all of these things. Do I feel I'm immune to being left or used? Nope, anyone can be left or used regardless of age, weight, beauty, nationality, religion, culture, etc.

What I'm trying to say is...let's not attack each other based on what we feel are our "superiorities". Simply because I pointed out certain red flags, doesn't mean I feel I'm better than anyone because I don't have those.

Edited April 24, 2007 by moody

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I'd count that among the oddities too. Arab men are proud and chauvinistic. For so many to accept the supremacy of a foreign, non-Arab woman connotes some desparation, imo. But, that's why I posted the article. Call it racist, it spoke to me because I see a social change that is not all for the positive and, as an Arab, it concerns me.

Overall I understand what the article is saying, and agree with most of it, but it's far too easy for MSM to make these sweeping generalizations these days, and that's what I meant by racism.

The posts criticizing my points are full of generalizations and stereotypes of Arab men, are they not? Arab men all want babies, Arab men value virginity (theose f--king papers and marriages to dovorcees are proof of that), Arab men all want this or that. If you're Arab, you don't know ####### about Arabs. A lot of women exoticize their men, stereotyping while claiming there are no stereotypes. There's a load of BS on this thread and most of it's not coming from me.

[peezey 0]

I agree, being Arab married to an Arab is no guarantee of till death to you part.

well I know several Moroccan girls with US citizenship that were used for papers by men back home.

One has a baby with one and is a hijabi and he is in the emirates with his moroccan girlfriend and doesnt want to come live here with his wife.

I know another Moroccan woman who was with a syrian who was playing her and she was used twice.. first egyptian then syrian.

And dont even get me started on the impressions that some arabs have of each other in terms of who is low class and who isnt. there are a lot of predjudices within the arab world about certain arabs from certain countries being this way or that. I don't see the arabs that I know and am friends with being that hard on the american women they know. Some of the arab men DONT WANT TO BE WITH THEIR FAMILIES.Its an individual choice.. some arabs come from highly dysfunctional families and want OUT.. You cannot make blanket statements like that GREEN EYE GIRL.... Not all arabs are the same and personalities differ from country to country with exceptions all over

I have my favorite countries as far as how I see how they look at Americans.. I have never dated one , but I have known some really cool Egyptians and Jordanians in long term happy marriages with Americans. 5 6 kids.. happy etc

Moroccan is running 50 50 .. I have seen total users and ones that were very happy with Americans

Algerians... um.. I personally know several in REAL MARRIAGES although I know some Kabilyes ( berbers) who humiliated and laughed about their american greencards.. and then some ones that are living with their girlfrinds and have kids with them

Syrians.. havent met one yet still married to the American

Palestinians... know several in real marriages

Gulf Arabs.. none still married

Tunisians... none still married

Lebanese... have met about 10 over the last 6 years and not a single one still married

Turkish.. none still married

So from what I have seen... the real marriages that I have encountered over a 6 year period have been

MOROCCAN

ALGERIAN

EGYPTIAN

JORDANIAN

PALESTINIAN

Lebanese, Syrian,Tunisian, Gulf arabs, Turkish..... All the ones that I have known and we are talking in the 10s to 20s of people I have met and known usually go back home and get one of their own. I am still waiting to see a turk still married. I think in 6 years I have met one.

I have seen it with several Moroccan and Algerian ( dumping the western wife) but I have also seen some real stuff

Don't tell me that being arab makes you immune from fraud.. Not happening.. I think being arab makes you under MORE scrutiny from his family. Cause they think you should have known better and been better acting.. Your mistakes count more

I think the point is being missed here. You are talking about exceptions, not the rule. In general, GEG is right about arab culture, there is no denying it is an oddity for an arab/muslim to marry a westerner.

Nothing guarantees a successful marriage, I don't think anyone is arguing that.

[peezey 0]

I found it interesting the times I was in Egypt how when I was introduced to my husbands friends, their wives or sisters always wanted to see how big my ring was. One woman even flat out told me I needed to tell him to get me a bigger ring! A lot of his family that are single do not want to marry an egyptian woman because they say all they want is money. I know all woman are not like this and I'm not trying to start another debate.....I'm just saying what I was told. Here I am thinking I was materialistic and my husband says I'm not at all! (He says I need to meet his ex!)

ditto except for my hubby doesn't have an ex. When I asked him why he hadn't found a nice Egyptian girl yet he told me that I don't understand and that they are very much into the $$$$$$ aspect of marriage.

How can they not be when they can't get jobs to buy the things we take for granted all the time? Doodle, you take tons of vacations, your daughters are always shopping....arab women can't do this and they are raised that the man provides in Islam. Arab women don't just want money, they don't want anything more than we want.

Our husbands are getting all thisthat they complain their female arab counterparts want, and arab women are getting squat. Total double standard.

Edited April 24, 2007 by peezey

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I know plenty of "arabs" used for papers by country men and I know Americans that are truly loved by their spouses. and this whole supremacy stuff is a bunch of hogwash. Some arab men marry americans ( GUYS WHO HAVE PAPERS) because they find American women much more open minded and less MATERIALISTIC

Let us not get into Arab woman bashing. Open minded can mean anything and many of the men marrying women here are marrying muslimas (conservative), so it's really not a valid argument. Also, the women in the US are self-supporting and buy their own things, not relying on a man to buy them stuff. We are a flipping MATERIALISTIC nation, so that argument is out the window. Arab women don't have the work opportunity we do, yet they are bombarded with images of what we have. So, they want what we want and have, but can really only rely on a husband to get it for them most of the time. Any respectable arab man will not talk ####### about arab women, these are their mothers, sisters, aunts, after all.

Moody and peezey were speaking about our inability to discuss the oddities in the open, and I agree with them. I know that peezey has expressed before her exasperation with how some will gossip about others behind their backs regarding the validity and viability of their relationships, but are loathe to speak publically about the characteristics that raise doubts. I know that moody means no disrespect, but their comments did provide an opening for a frank discussion.

But, if you want to point at someone else and say "those are things that give me pause about people like THEM". then you have to be willing to know that someone has doubts about people like YOU without insulting Arab women so that you appear to look better as a non-Arab woman.

[ya falaha! 0]

The American women who are marrying these men (me included) don't come off as money hungry because we work, we have established lives before these men come along. If we were in the same position as these Egyptian/Arab women they'd be saying the same thing about us. Most of the time when they belittle the Arab women it's an attempt to butter us up. You're so much better than them habibity

[peezey 0]

I was really turned off by her comment that being with an American is some how " de manizing" I have a friend from Morocco who was married to an american and they divorced but he was looking for an american wife and gave up and went back home and got hooked up with a Moroccan. All he does is complain to me about her ( he is one of my best friends) He said he cant wait to come back to the states and says he just changed alot and cant relate to the materialism. He told me when an American woman loves you its for you.. he told me he feels like his wallet is open when he deals with arabs.. Each person is unique and different and so is every relationship.

I am still just astounded we accept this line of b.s. from arab men. First, we are the BIGGEST MATERIALIST SOCIETY ON EARTH, and every single one of us on here work and buy stuff all the time that we think nothing about, but an arab women will rarely get the chance to have in her life. And these men get this stuff by being married to us so it's outrageous they can talk about their countrywomen like this.

And let's not get into American women who marry for money ALL THE TIME. It hasn't been so long that we were taught as girls to marry a man with a good job so you'll be secure all your life, and some girls still get that line today.

And what about all the gifts we or our husbands take back with them when they visit home? This stuff isn't just going to female relatives. Men want just as much from amreeka, and often have no problem asking for far more expensive things (electronics) while women want much less expensive things.

[doodlebug 3]

I found it interesting the times I was in Egypt how when I was introduced to my husbands friends, their wives or sisters always wanted to see how big my ring was. One woman even flat out told me I needed to tell him to get me a bigger ring! A lot of his family that are single do not want to marry an egyptian woman because they say all they want is money. I know all woman are not like this and I'm not trying to start another debate.....I'm just saying what I was told. Here I am thinking I was materialistic and my husband says I'm not at all! (He says I need to meet his ex!)

ditto except for my hubby doesn't have an ex. When I asked him why he hadn't found a nice Egyptian girl yet he told me that I don't understand and that they are very much into the $$$$$$ aspect of marriage.

How can they not be when they can't get jobs to buy the things we take for granted all the time? Doodle, you take tons of vacations, your daughters are always shopping....arab women can't do this and they are raised that the man provides in Islam. Arab women don't just want money, they don't want anything more than we want.

Our husbands are getting all thisthat they complain their female arab counterparts want, and arab women are getting squat. Total double standard.

Who says they can't get jobs? Both of my sisters in law have good jobs and could be self sufficient if need be. They are both well educated and are hard workers. They are not looking for anyone at the moment because of some life events that they need to recover from but when and if they do seek out a spouse I know for a fact that although they will expect their husband to support them they will not be looking for the man who will give them the biggest bling.