What is wrong with the Egyptian gov't.???!!!!!

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

The problem with pming is that for new Vjers who come along, they only see part of the picture. Many people read here but never post. I strongly feel they need to hear different views. I will agree honey is better than vinegar, but not everyone has the same style. Better to remind people to take the opinions at face value and not personal attacks. Yes some people have left because they dislike the way things are discussed. Others have left- and many of these were valuable contributors for immigration information, because so many here refuse to engage in a open debate and would rather engage in behavior that is not productive and potentially harmful to women.

Right on

I know an american woman who never "brought someone here" but sponsored 3 different Moroccan men. The first she divorced after she caught him cheating. The second got his citizenship and 2 days after she discovered that on his last trip home that he had married someone else. Then she met the brother of a friend and then married him and 2 months after he got his papers he left her. She to this day, if she met a man.. I honestly think would sponsor someone else ( these were guys already here in the city)

Then I have another friend who was 20 and was a virgin, cute and sweet everything supposedly MENA men want who married her and ( he was 28) got her pregnant.. then tried to force her into an abortion and the preceeded to batter her over a 10 year period to the point she was hospitalised and lost custody of her son. Her moroccan husband got all the money, the house and everything. Age difference ?No.. Things looked all peachy from the outset.. yes.. and look what happened . He ended up hooking up with a russian illegal who was over here who he still hasnt married

Then I have seen countless men going through the horrors of dealing with russian girls who turned around and filed fake domestic violence reports and then took them to the cleaner

But on a brighter side,,, I have seen marriages that were mixed that are so so so happy. I have seen women marry men from Morocco and have pretty babies and everything works out great. I have seen one marriage where the man was 17 younger ( from a mena country) and they are having their second baby. I also know an algerian whos wife was a little older and she has 2 kids with him too and the babies are toddlers and a baby and they are so happy...

All true stories..

All true and people I know

There are NO FORMULAS.... only real life experiences

[mybackpages 0]

Ok well pm or not I still think it's all in the delivery though. If I were talked to like some were on this thread I would have logged off and never turned back. That wouldn't have helped me much at all. That's all I'm saying. Some need the hardliner approach I guess but I know a lot who get turned off by that and need things said a wee bit more gently. I think there are many other ways to get the point across but to each his/her own I guess.

There is truth in what you are saying Doodle for sure!

[lion_lioness 0]

I agree with Doodle's comment. Although sometimes cutting straight to the point it better too. I mean if folks feel like its BS then just ignore it and don't waste your time trying to help someone else if you know the comment is going to be taken as an attack. Maybe folks lash out because they feel the issues at hand are similar do their own situation - I don't know. It would just be great to find a happy medium. Tell it like it is and to the point, so sugar coating, but no need to blast on folks and then leave either.

I think WOM's post earlier summed it up with the example of how we might reactive to an american/american couple getting married after 2 months. GEG's early comment was to the point also and not offensive (one of the earlier posts, before the article) Personally, I say to each his own, but socially it's not common. To say its because the couple are both muslims ok - but how many of the relationships in this group started out that both partners are muslim (and the woman did NOT revert after meeting her SO)? I've been down this road once before, so speaking from experience definitely take your time it is NOT worth it to jump right in. Talk about every scenario, go for MORE than just ONE visit. Take the advice in stride and don't get offended right away. Believe me there's nothing worse than going through this process and realizing the day of your marriage you made a big mistake - that hurts far worse than waiting just a little longer. However if you have taken the advice into consideration and you feel its the best thing for you - then the rest of us should back off the decision has been made.

A young woman contacted me on Yahoo Messenger, she found me via one of my groups or my site not sure. She wanted to know if she should marry her Moroccan boyfriend in June or do a K3? I told her I couldn't give her my opinion without asking a few questions first. WHEN SHE TOLD ME HE HAD BEEN ENGAGED ONCE BEFORE TO AN AMERICAN WOMAN, AND THAT HE DIDN'T GO TO THE INITIAL K1 INTERVIEW BECAUSE SHE (THE EX-AMERICAN FIANCE) CANCELLED IT (PROB B/C OF INFIDELITY) AND THEN HE JUST DIDN'T ATTEND THE SECOND INTERVIEW MARCH 30 2007 (YES THEY EVEN GOT IT RESCHEDULED SOME HOW) BECAUSE HE COULD NEVER LOVE HER, I asked her to send me some of the uppers she was taking. How the hell could you even consider it when March 30th was two weeks ago??? She replied by saying oh but its been over for months. Really then how/why a rescheduled interview that he knew about 2 weeks ago. I told her to forget that situation OR if she couldn't resist, just go for a visit and then go back a few more times. It seems the guy was in a big rush. You know what's even scarier? The initial Jan 07 interview that was cancelled and then rescheduled Mar 30 07 is exactly the same as a friend of mine's story. In fact, I'm willing to bet money its the same guy. I told the woman I gave her the best advice I could and please not to IM me again. Not wasting my precious energy.

[peezey 0]

I have seen women marry men from Morocco and have pretty babies and everything works out great.

God bless the pretty babies.

[doodlebug 3]

WHEN SHE TOLD ME HE HAD BEEN ENGAGED ONCE BEFORE TO AN AMERICAN WOMAN, AND THAT HE DIDN'T GO TO THE INITIAL K1 INTERVIEW BECAUSE SHE (THE EX-AMERICAN FIANCE) CANCELLED IT (PROB B/C OF INFIDELITY) AND THEN HE JUST DIDN'T ATTEND THE SECOND INTERVIEW MARCH 30 2007 (YES THEY EVEN GOT IT RESCHEDULED SOME HOW) BECAUSE HE COULD NEVER LOVE HER, I asked her to send me some of the uppers she was taking. How the hell could you even consider it when March 30th was two weeks ago???

That's a woman who's definitely one fry short of a happy meal!

[peezey 0]

We can go round and round all you want, doodle, about the "right" way to comment and we most certainly will never agree. The same things are asked over and over, what are red flags, what is the interview like, here is my crazy-azz situation what will the CO say, etc and when people are given a response they might not want to hear they flip out and the rest of the cheerleaders come running with some ridiculous defense. I'm over it, I'll post when I want, and where I want, and how I want. But please, should you wish to assert your opinion AGAIN about tone and delivery, go for it. I'm not your kid looking for direction or interested in your admonishments. And if people leave because they hear the truth, they didn't want the fukcing truth in the first place.

[peezey 0]

The following comment is certainly not aimed at anyone here personally. But.... it has to be said.

In American culture, it is rather unusual to meet a person and then within the first few months of that relationship, decide to get married. In fact, most Americans tend to see serious talk about marriage during the early stages of a relationship as a major warning sign that something wasn't quite right in their partner's thinking, and would run run RUN away as fast as they could. What would you think if your sister met a guy here in the U.S. and then 2 months later she is already talking marriage ? You would say, "Slow down, sis -- it's too fast."

I don't understand why similar "moving-too-fast" behavior from a foreign man (or woman) would be considered as somehow more sincere. If you're an American women under 70 who has traveled the Middle East, you know that marriage proposals are a dime a dozen. You get them from taxi drivers, waiters, hotel workers, anyone. A lot of people are desperate to get out of there, and many will seek any oppportunity to do so. Walk into any Middle Eastern internet cafe after dark, and you will see -- it's full of young (and not so young) men, intently trolling websites and chat rooms, looking for Western women. Some of them already have a fish on the line, or several, and they work those lines every single day. Many of the younger men are unemployed, and have nothing but time on their hands. They may be working several women at once, and they are willing to marry whichever one shows up first, as long as there's a green card at the end of the rainbow. Some are quite open with their families and friends about their plan to divorce this woman as soon as they possibly can.

If you get a marriage proposal after a few days or a few weeks or even a month or two of chatting to someone on the internet, you should be smart enough to realize it's not YOU that he's fallen for. In the case of desperately poor men from countries with little or no opportunity, the attraction is either your money or your ability to get him a visa.

I am certainly not saying that everyone who meets on the internet is being scammed. But if things are moving faster than fast, there's a reason and it's probably not good.

And let's not forget the fact American women would rarely accept an American man proposing when he had no job, no money, no education, so it's quite curious they would accept this from a foreign man.

[mybackpages 0]

The following comment is certainly not aimed at anyone here personally. But.... it has to be said.

In American culture, it is rather unusual to meet a person and then within the first few months of that relationship, decide to get married. In fact, most Americans tend to see serious talk about marriage during the early stages of a relationship as a major warning sign that something wasn't quite right in their partner's thinking, and would run run RUN away as fast as they could. What would you think if your sister met a guy here in the U.S. and then 2 months later she is already talking marriage ? You would say, "Slow down, sis -- it's too fast."

I don't understand why similar "moving-too-fast" behavior from a foreign man (or woman) would be considered as somehow more sincere. If you're an American women under 70 who has traveled the Middle East, you know that marriage proposals are a dime a dozen. You get them from taxi drivers, waiters, hotel workers, anyone. A lot of people are desperate to get out of there, and many will seek any oppportunity to do so. Walk into any Middle Eastern internet cafe after dark, and you will see -- it's full of young (and not so young) men, intently trolling websites and chat rooms, looking for Western women. Some of them already have a fish on the line, or several, and they work those lines every single day. Many of the younger men are unemployed, and have nothing but time on their hands. They may be working several women at once, and they are willing to marry whichever one shows up first, as long as there's a green card at the end of the rainbow. Some are quite open with their families and friends about their plan to divorce this woman as soon as they possibly can.

If you get a marriage proposal after a few days or a few weeks or even a month or two of chatting to someone on the internet, you should be smart enough to realize it's not YOU that he's fallen for. In the case of desperately poor men from countries with little or no opportunity, the attraction is either your money or your ability to get him a visa.

I am certainly not saying that everyone who meets on the internet is being scammed. But if things are moving faster than fast, there's a reason and it's probably not good.

And let's not forget the fact American women would rarely accept an American man proposing when he had no job, no money, no education, so it's quite curious they would accept this from a foreign man.

Touche peezy

[peezey 0]

And let's not forget the fact American women would rarely accept an American man proposing when he had no job, no money, no education, so it's quite curious they would accept this from a foreign man.

Touche peezy

It's not my business, people should do what they want, but to be ASTOUNDED these are red flags? I can't understand why there is sudden blindness when it comes to these particular relationships.

Edited April 24, 2007 by peezey

[mybackpages 0]

And let's not forget the fact American women would rarely accept an American man proposing when he had no job, no money, no education, so it's quite curious they would accept this from a foreign man.

Touche peezy

It's not my business, people should do what they want, but to be ASTOUNDED these are red flags? I can't understand why there is sudden blindness when it comes to these particular relationships.

From what I have ovserved it is not the red flags that cause the problems. Oh yes for the consulate the red flags raise suspicions, but the problems are deeper and more personal for many of these couples. I am so tired of blame the consulate game. Yes the consulate makes mistakes, yes the system should be reformed, yes good legitimate couples are denied because they get caught in the process BUT I have seem very few denials here on VJ where the couple did not play- at the very least- and indirect role in the denial. I know this is not going to go over well with some here and believe me I am not naming names. This does not apply to every denial, but 90% of the denials are not suprises to anyone who is a regular reader here in MENA. Posters here will reveal enough about the relationship that just shouts denial and yet somehow they never sees it coming themselves.

NO ONE is going to get denied because of an age gap. But very often where there is an age age there are other problems. The combination is what is dangerous not the single red flag. We have seen it over and over.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

And let's not forget the fact American women would rarely accept an American man proposing when he had no job, no money, no education, so it's quite curious they would accept this from a foreign man.

Touche peezy

It's not my business, people should do what they want, but to be ASTOUNDED these are red flags? I can't understand why there is sudden blindness when it comes to these particular relationships.

From what I have ovserved it is not the red flags that cause the problems. Oh yes for the consulate the red flags raise suspicions, but the problems are deeper and more personal for many of these couples. I am so tired of blame the consulate game. Yes the consulate makes mistakes, yes the system should be reformed, yes good legitimate couples are denied because they get caught in the process BUT I have seem very few denials here on VJ where the couple did not play- at the very least- and indirect role in the denial. I know this is not going to go over well with some here and believe me I am not naming names. This does not apply to every denial, but 90% of the denials are not suprises to anyone who is a regular reader here in MENA. Posters here will reveal enough about the relationship that just shouts denial and yet somehow they never sees it coming themselves.

NO ONE is going to get denied because of an age gap. But very often where there is an age age there are other problems. The combination is what is dangerous not the single red flag. We have seen it over and over.

yeah... makes sense.....sad for the girls though

[peezey 0]

And let's not forget the fact American women would rarely accept an American man proposing when he had no job, no money, no education, so it's quite curious they would accept this from a foreign man.

Touche peezy

It's not my business, people should do what they want, but to be ASTOUNDED these are red flags? I can't understand why there is sudden blindness when it comes to these particular relationships.

From what I have ovserved it is not the red flags that cause the problems. Oh yes for the consulate the red flags raise suspicions, but the problems are deeper and more personal for many of these couples. I am so tired of blame the consulate game. Yes the consulate makes mistakes, yes the system should be reformed, yes good legitimate couples are denied because they get caught in the process BUT I have seem very few denials here on VJ where the couple did not play- at the very least- and indirect role in the denial. I know this is not going to go over well with some here and believe me I am not naming names. This does not apply to every denial, but 90% of the denials are not suprises to anyone who is a regular reader here in MENA. Posters here will reveal enough about the relationship that just shouts denial and yet somehow they never sees it coming themselves.

NO ONE is going to get denied because of an age gap. But very often where there is an age age there are other problems. The combination is what is dangerous not the single red flag. We have seen it over and over.

exactly, and by red flag this time, I also meant a relationship red flag, not just a consulate red flag. We can come up with another name for it. "open your eyes, lady" flag

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

And let's not forget the fact American women would rarely accept an American man proposing when he had no job, no money, no education, so it's quite curious they would accept this from a foreign man.

Touche peezy

It's not my business, people should do what they want, but to be ASTOUNDED these are red flags? I can't understand why there is sudden blindness when it comes to these particular relationships.

From what I have ovserved it is not the red flags that cause the problems. Oh yes for the consulate the red flags raise suspicions, but the problems are deeper and more personal for many of these couples. I am so tired of blame the consulate game. Yes the consulate makes mistakes, yes the system should be reformed, yes good legitimate couples are denied because they get caught in the process BUT I have seem very few denials here on VJ where the couple did not play- at the very least- and indirect role in the denial. I know this is not going to go over well with some here and believe me I am not naming names. This does not apply to every denial, but 90% of the denials are not suprises to anyone who is a regular reader here in MENA. Posters here will reveal enough about the relationship that just shouts denial and yet somehow they never sees it coming themselves.

NO ONE is going to get denied because of an age gap. But very often where there is an age age there are other problems. The combination is what is dangerous not the single red flag. We have seen it over and over.

exactly, and by red flag this time, I also meant a relationship red flag, not just a consulate red flag. We can come up with another name for it. "open your eyes, lady" flag

too funny... um sad.. but funny

oh my

[peezey 0]

And to think a non-native speaker that had trouble understanding things in the interview, will know really how the interview went is naive as well. There are nuances, questions that would be impossible to understand if the guy was already having problems understanding the CO. This means their perception of how the interview went could be way off and can even mean he doesn't quite know all the questions that were actually asked and if he answered them properly. With a few exceptions, this is probably the first time these guys are speaking English with a person other than you.

[Beauty for Ashes 257]

And to think a non-native speaker that had trouble understanding things in the interview, will know really how the interview went is naive as well. There are nuances, questions that would be impossible to understand if the guy was already having problems understanding the CO. This means their perception of how the interview went could be way off and can even mean he doesn't quite know all the questions that were actually asked and if he answered them properly. With a few exceptions, this is probably the first time these guys are speaking English with a person other than you.

thats a good point

If the guy could not understand the questions.. how could he tell the petitioner what was said and wasnt said.

I find it kind of weird in some ways according to what was written that the SO did not know anything about the petioner . Even with a language barrier, people should know little things about the other person.. favorite movies... things they did in their lives.. where they lived in the states... jobs they have.. these should be things that were even chatted about online... Good point..