Potential joint sponser issues

[misa 2]

Here's a plan. Why don't you let your father assume she's going to become a USC eventually and not really tell him that she's not going to.

After she adjusts status, it will still take a few years before she's eligible.

[together2love 0]

Guess than you are going to have to wait to make more $$ to support her if you can't find another sponsor and she doesn't want to be a US citizen. Good luck.

[Carlawarla 1]

I appreciate the topic and the interesting comments this has generated!

I guess I'm struggling, without specifics, about how, by becoming a US Citizen, the U.S. government will have greater control over her. Have you asked her about this? Like...what specifically she's talking about?

I'm just coming from a position (as a Canadian), whereby often Canadians believe the US is the "big bad bully" south of us. That the US is rigid, uncompromising etc. When I think of our taxes in Canada, the government's control over my reading material, and the Canadian content of the TV and movies I watch, and then think of government's controls....hmmmm

As far as the "unreasonable and unfair to ask this of her", her ignoring or changing the subject, is rather childish.

I wonder if it meant you couldn't be together whether that would change?

On one side she she sounds very "principled", the other, rather selfish.

It never hurts to discuss further ! Love conquers all eh?

[DeadPoolX 9]

Guess than you are going to have to wait to make more $$ to support her if you can't find another sponsor and she doesn't want to be a US citizen. Good luck.

Well, I WILL be making more than enough eventually. That's a whole another story, and one which I don't want to get into. But the point is that I will be making plenty in the future. But we'd really rather not wait even longer to be together.

I appreciate the topic and the interesting comments this has generated!

I guess I'm struggling, without specifics, about how, by becoming a US Citizen, the U.S. government will have greater control over her. Have you asked her about this? Like...what specifically she's talking about?

I'm just coming from a position (as a Canadian), whereby often Canadians believe the US is the "big bad bully" south of us. That the US is rigid, uncompromising etc. When I think of our taxes in Canada, the government's control over my reading material, and the Canadian content of the TV and movies I watch, and then think of government's controls....hmmmm

As far as the "unreasonable and unfair to ask this of her", her ignoring or changing the subject, is rather childish.

I wonder if it meant you couldn't be together whether that would change?

On one side she she sounds very "principled", the other, rather selfish.

It never hurts to discuss further ! Love conquers all eh?

Regarding the U.S. government having greater control over her... I think she wants the freedom to go to and from Canada as she pleases. She's afraid that one day the U.S. government will clamp down on its citizens and not allow them to leave U.S. borders, thereby not allowing her (if she's a USC) to go home and visit her family, in addition to whatever other "crazy and intrusive" laws the U.S. might pass.

I am assuming that she would reluctantly agree to become a USC if that was the absolutely ONLY way for us to be together. But she certainly wouldn't be happy about it, and it would take a lot (and I mean a lot) of convincing on my part to make it happen.

[Flames9_RN 358]

In some ways they would have less "control" over her!! As a permanent residnet, its much easier for the Govt to kick u out, than if u were a citizen!!! And like Istated, if she is only a perm resident, and u die, Uncle Sam wil get more of your estate than they would if she was an USA citizen!! Like I said, I wil become a USA citizen, but will forever be known as and refer to myself as a Canadian

[derekkj 0]

Anyway, I'll have another talk with her tonight. I'll see what comes up. She's probably resist the idea again, but it never hurts to try once more.

Good luck talking with her. Perhaps you should try focusing on some of the positives of becoming a US citizen that Flames9 mentioned. I know that the only reason Derek is thinking about it is because he makes considerably less as a PR than he would as a citizen. He's in law enforcement/security and a lot of the top paying jobs in DC are government related so he can't even apply. And I believe Scott is also right about inheritance rights were you to predeceace her. Hopefully that is waaaaaay in the future, but always better to plan ahead and be safe rather than sorry.

By the way, I personally think the US government will have *less* control over her as a citizen than a PR. I am thinking deportation primarily. Though I can understand her reluctance to swear an oath that she is not 100% behind.

Best of luck with whatever decision you all come to!

[Emancipation 2]

You all are very quickly changing MY mind about the whole citizenship thing.. The OP should get his CDN Fiance to read this thread.. VERY good thoughts here indeed.

[misa 2]

One thing that I'm not sure you're aware of this but the 10 year thing isn't until you submit the I-864 during Adjustment of Status after she enters on a K1. To get her to the U.S. you'd be filling out the I-134 at the consulate level for her interview. The I-134 is only binding for 3 years and just ensures that she won't be a public charge or apply for welfare and food stamps during that time.

[Caladan 19]

Honestly, if the U.S. government gets to the point where it's barring the travel of its own citizens to Canada, permanent residents are probably f*cked already. Seriously, that's a North Korea level of control. If that happens, we've probably already invaded Canada, so's no worries.

One thing to consider: You haven't yet applied for a K-1. How far is 'in the future' when you'll be making money? Are we talking a June 2007 graduation? June 2009? If the former, consider that you have six to nine months for the K-1, depending on your service center and consulate combination, and then figure another three months or so for her to move here.... lalala, so we're looking at between December 2007 and April 2008 when you file for a green card.

Will you have the income to prove it by then? Your dad can sponsor the I-134 without sponsoring the I-864. The I-134 isn't legally binding, and then you can take over for the I-864.

[CutienPurg 0]

The obligation of a sponsor on an I-864 does not begin until the immigrant obtains LPR/CR status.

As the primary sponsor, her husband, you would assume the significant share of the burden if she were to become reliant on means tested benefits. If at the time , say after you were to divorce ( god forbid) she sought public benefits, the gov't would first look to you - her primary sponsor, for repayment. If your income was not adequate to meet the finacial burden of repayment , then your joint sponsor would be held liable. At least that's how I am to understand the process.

SO.....maybe ask your father how much faith he has in you to protect him from this sort of liability. I think often times a potential joint sponsor isn't clear on the whole picture and they think they have to repay debts like credit cards or mortgages if the immigrant cannot. Maybe show your dad the list of means tested benefits your fiance would be able to collect, its not very big. Ask him to be realisitic. Would a woman who cant even phathom the notion of being a citizen of the country EVER consider staying here if it werent for your relationship? She obviously loves and trusts in her country, its principals and practices. I try to imagine my husband staying in the US and collecting welfare for the simple point of vengance if we were to divorce ......it's laughable really. He wouldnt be able to get back to Canada fast enough.

I have told my husband that I would not support him becoming a US citizen. He is Canadian.....he spent his life in the military in the service of his country....he went to war in his country's name ( some would say it's in the US's name but thats another can of worms) and I can't allow him to turn his back on that in any manner. HOWEVER.......he said , like so many of you he will ALWAYS be Canadian, in his heart, in his mind and on his birth certificate.....no matter what the US gov't says thinks or believes. He bleeds red......Canada red. Under normal circumstances I would not become a Canadian citizen either.......I will live there , I will die there and the only reason I would accept the citizenship of another country is if it was what stood between me and my husband living our lives together. It's not an easy decision for sure.

best of luck to you

[mwinburn 0]

I have told my husband that I would not support him becoming a US citizen. He is Canadian.....he spent his life in the military in the service of his country....he went to war in his country's name ( some would say it's in the US's name but thats another can of worms) and I can't allow him to turn his back on that in any manner. HOWEVER.......he said , like so many of you he will ALWAYS be Canadian, in his heart, in his mind and on his birth certificate.....no matter what the US gov't says thinks or believes. He bleeds red......Canada red. Under normal circumstances I would not become a Canadian citizen either.......I will live there , I will die there and the only reason I would accept the citizenship of another country is if it was what stood between me and my husband living our lives together. It's not an easy decision for sure.

I actually don't want my SO to become a citizen either. There really is no benefit to her. In fact, it's more of a drawback since it means we'll forever have to file taxes for her here in addition to mine. I would consider getting Canadian citizenship though, but just because the PR card there only lasts for 5 years and I'd like the freedom for us to move back and forth if we want. But yes, I was born an American, and I will die an American, regardless of any pieces of paper I may or may not collect along the way.

[Flames9_RN 358]

Before you make comments that there is no benefit to becoming a USA citizen, ensure you have done the proper research! Not saying it would benefit you, but there are situations where it can be beneficial!!

[mwinburn 0]

Before you make comments that there is no benefit to becoming a USA citizen, ensure you have done the proper research! Not saying it would benefit you, but there are situations where it can be beneficial!!

Why speculate? Here is the list: http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/citizenship.html

[Flames9_RN 358]

As well some jobs require you to be a USA citizen. And some if the USA citizen wants to work for certain agencies (ones with a very high security clearance) that the spouse be a citizen as well. may affect some, may not! There are more things that coul dbe added to that list as well (As estates after a death) And I'm sure there are more negatives!!

[homesick_american 1]

As I said before, we both know and understand that even with verbally renouncing her Canadian citizenship during the ceremony, she'd remain a Canadian citizen in the eyes of Canada. That's not the issue. What is the issue is that if she becomes a USC, the U.S. government will have greater control over her (than I suppose she likes) and in her eyes that she'd essentially be lying, since she wouldn't really be giving up her Canadian citizenship. Not that she wants to give it up; she fully intends to remain a Canadian citizen.

I don't see that the US government would have 'more' control over her at all; it's a silly statement. As a PR she has the same obligations as a US citizen does to follow the law and (if she were male) to register with the selective service, and to file income taxes. To me a PR has all the responsibilities but not as many of the rights, i.e. the right to vote. Also, as a PR the US government has 'more' control in that it could deport her much more easily than it could strip her US citizenship. It can be done, but US citizenship is rarely stripped. I just don't understand what her issue is.

The only thing is... I've tried having a long talk with her, she attempts to put the subject off and/or she gets annoyed. She says it's unreasonable and unfair of me to ask this of her. If it were just me, I wouldn't care if she became a USC or not. Would it be nice? Sure. I wouldn't have to worry about anything such as deportation (not that she's the type to break laws, but still, the risk is always there if you're a permanent resident), but it's not just me.

Ultimately, all things being equal, becoming a USC is her decision to make, not anyone else's. I know people who have lived almost their entire lives in the USA as PRs without even considering citizenship, and they're fine with their decision. However, it seems to be an issue in your case. She seems to be dead-set against the idea and I'm thinking she may not be 100% comfortable with living in the United States and maybe the idea of taking citizenship is too scary for her right now, i.e. she thinks it will create problems for her if she (or both of you) decide to return to Canada. As a USC I don't understand her reasoning but at the end of the day the decision is 100% hers to make.

The issue here is that you can't sponsor her yourself, and your father seems to be uncomfortable with the idea of possibly having to provide for someone who isn't willing to go 'all the way' and become an American. I don't really get that mindset either; my husband doesn't really want to become a USC either and my flag-waving red-blooded American father agreed to co-sponsor him just in case I didn't qualify as a sole sponsor. He did this because he loved me more than he was scared of the idea of having to provide for my husband. I think you should talk to your father again, and try to be as diplomatic about it as possible. If you have to describe your fiancee's viewpoint on this as irrational in order to convince him, you may want to consider doing that. Also, what are the odds that she would become a public charge anyway? What does she do for a living? Does she want/like to work? Use that info too if you try to persuade your dad again.

In my opinion they're both being irrational, and you're caught in the middle which can't be any fun.

Are you absolutely sure you don't qualify to sponsor her yourself?