NOISE, MUSIC LOUDNESS CONTROL!

[pedroh 21]

The housing projects here consists a majority of Spainish speakers! It's so weird. These people need to get a job, learn English, and adapt to culture. I live nearby them, and I am Asian. English is my second language. I speak better than these people, not only that, my English is superior compared to most English speakers as well. Not bad for English as a second language.

I love to call these people lazy bums, scums, pigs, etc...I know it's mean. But, because they give up learning English, I like to put them down. If they think I'm wrong, they just need to prove that they are better with English.

Anyway...this is way off topic. The point being, these people don't know any better with the noise. They are alot older than I am, and are stupid.

ah hahahha.. that's a good one..

how do you know they don't speak english, and how can they 'adapt to culture'? certainly not with your engrish... ahh har har har har.. you made my day bro'.. certainly did, har har har...

so spanish speaking people who live in the projects are stupid, I'd like you to say that in their face, so they can kick ur arrogant #######...

[DeadPoolX 9]

Just some minor gramatical corrections of your "superior English". I've crossed out that which was incorrect, and the corrections appear in blue. Four mistakes in a post containing 3 paragraphs is not quite something you should be boasting about. It also makes your claim of superiority in the English language, vis-a-vis native English speaker a joke. It makes you look foolish.

A bit of a heads up...many, for whom English is a second language, read/write with an admirable proficiency, but you ask them to speak and its another story alltogether. Their spoken English is very difficult to understand due to the accent which varies in "heavyness," and depends on the "mother tongue" of the speaker. Unless you emigrated to the states at a very young age, you more than likely have an accent in your spoken english. Please don't claim to be superior to native born speakers of this language, because the minute you open your mouth you scream "immigrant" or "non-native speaker". That is something they will always have on you....those native English speakers. Unfortunately in the eyes of some people, (with pea brains and mentalities like yours) that accent in the spoken word is enough to be looked down upon and ridiculed.

I agree with pretty much everything you said but in foreign language acquisition, writing is usually the last component that is mastered. People can acquire 'passive fluency' relatively quickly, i.e. they can read the language and understand it when it is spoken to them, but 'active fluency' is tougher. Speaking almost always comes before writing, even in a classroom setting...and writing is the first thing you lose if you stop practicing, then speaking. Passive fluency takes a while to go away. I haven't practiced Portuguese in about 10 years, but I can still read and understand it. I find it difficult to speak it but I can't write it to save my life. Not anymore, anyway.

That is absolutely true.

I took a couple of years of both German and French, and while I can read both fairly easily and speak both to some degree (German is easier for me than French), I have a lot of difficulty writing either. Granted, I haven't kept up in either language so I've lost some of my ability, but then again, I never had that great of a capacity for foreign language to begin with!

My brother, on the other hand, knows both French and Russian almost fluently. The whole concept of Russian blows my mind. That is a very difficult language. But he's really good at it, so guess he got the "foreign language" gene from my grandfather who was a translator in WWII. My father and I, however, were quite obviously skipped over in that gene...

[pedroh 21]

[homesick_american 1]

ah hahahha.. that's a good one..

how do you know they don't speak english, and how can they 'adapt to culture'? certainly not with your engrish... ahh har har har har.. you made my day bro'.. certainly did, har har har...

so spanish speaking people who live in the projects are stupid, I'd like you to say that in their face, so they can kick ur arrogant #######...

Hehehe, yeah; I'd like to see that.

[pedroh 21]

ah hahahha.. that's a good one..

how do you know they don't speak english, and how can they 'adapt to culture'? certainly not with your engrish... ahh har har har har.. you made my day bro'.. certainly did, har har har...

so spanish speaking people who live in the projects are stupid, I'd like you to say that in their face, so they can kick ur arrogant #######...

Hehehe, yeah; I'd like to see that.

have you 'adapted to culture'?

hahhhhahahahah LMAO OMGLOLZ

[homesick_american 1]

That is absolutely true.

I took a couple of years of both German and French, and while I can read both fairly easily and speak both to some degree (German is easier for me than French), I have a lot of difficulty writing either. Granted, I haven't kept up in either language so I've lost some of my ability, but then again, I never had that great of a capacity for foreign language to begin with!

My brother, on the other hand, knows both French and Russian almost fluently. The whole concept of Russian blows my mind. That is a very difficult language. But he's really good at it, so guess he got the "foreign language" gene from my grandfather who was a translator in WWII. My father and I, however, were quite obviously skipped over in that gene...

I'm an Aspie and my Rain Man parlor trick is learning foreign languages. By the time I finished four years of high school French, I spoke it fluently. Learning foreign languages is very easy for me. I'm not perfect in any of them...that isn't even what 'fluent' means...but that's not really important. It's OK to make mistakes. Just don't brag about your French being superior to that of a native while you're making all those mistakes!

ah hahahha.. that's a good one..

how do you know they don't speak english, and how can they 'adapt to culture'? certainly not with your engrish... ahh har har har har.. you made my day bro'.. certainly did, har har har...

so spanish speaking people who live in the projects are stupid, I'd like you to say that in their face, so they can kick ur arrogant #######...

Hehehe, yeah; I'd like to see that.

have you 'adapted to culture'?

hahhhhahahahah LMAO OMGLOLZ

I'd like to see those hombres adapt his attitude.

[Fandango 1,440]

I remember hearing how people in the 60's thought that crazy 'rock and roll' was too loud and active and it was making the young people crazy! Anyhow, please just keep perspective and I hope this topic can stay friendly. Thank you!

oooh E remembers the 60s *check*

[Alex+R 0]

Just some minor gramatical corrections of your "superior English". I've crossed out that which was incorrect, and the corrections appear in blue. Four mistakes in a post containing 3 paragraphs is not quite something you should be boasting about. It also makes your claim of superiority in the English language, vis-a-vis native English speaker a joke. It makes you look foolish.

A bit of a heads up...many, for whom English is a second language, read/write with an admirable proficiency, but you ask them to speak and its another story alltogether. Their spoken English is very difficult to understand due to the accent which varies in "heavyness," and depends on the "mother tongue" of the speaker. Unless you emigrated to the states at a very young age, you more than likely have an accent in your spoken english. Please don't claim to be superior to native born speakers of this language, because the minute you open your mouth you scream "immigrant" or "non-native speaker". That is something they will always have on you....those native English speakers. Unfortunately in the eyes of some people, (with pea brains and mentalities like yours) that accent in the spoken word is enough to be looked down upon and ridiculed.

I agree with pretty much everything you said but in foreign language acquisition, writing is usually the last component that is mastered. People can acquire 'passive fluency' relatively quickly, i.e. they can read the language and understand it when it is spoken to them, but 'active fluency' is tougher. Speaking almost always comes before writing, even in a classroom setting...and writing is the first thing you lose if you stop practicing, then speaking. Passive fluency takes a while to go away. I haven't practiced Portuguese in about 10 years, but I can still read and understand it. I find it difficult to speak it but I can't write it to save my life. Not anymore, anyway.

But if someone has been living in the US since they were a child, you'd think they'd have better English skills. I assumed Console must live in an ethnic enclave where English is not often spoken, but his post there shows that he does not consider that to be his case. I'm a little surprised. I have friends who came to the US from Venezuela and Mexico in 8th grade who speak and write English like natives. They are, for all intents and purposes now, natives.

[Minya's wife 25]

I agree with pretty much everything you said but in foreign language acquisition, writing is usually the last component that is mastered. People can acquire 'passive fluency' relatively quickly, i.e. they can read the language and understand it when it is spoken to them, but 'active fluency' is tougher. Speaking almost always comes before writing, even in a classroom setting...and writing is the first thing you lose if you stop practicing, then speaking. Passive fluency takes a while to go away. I haven't practiced Portuguese in about 10 years, but I can still read and understand it. I find it difficult to speak it but I can't write it to save my life. Not anymore, anyway.

Interesting...for me, speaking was the last and most difficult hurdle w/ any of the languages I learned (...and of course that is the critical one in order to be understood by those around you). I agree with you, that speaking and writing is connected...and part of 'active fluency', but for me, the speech is that which I forget first before any of the other components. For example, I learned to read/write and speak Spanish, in fact it was my minor in college, way back when. My fluency served me well when I was unable to find a job to save my life, (dot.com slump) and I used my Spanish fluency to teach school as a substitute in bilingual classes. Once I started in my current job/career, which does not involve the use of my spanish, I find myself floundering in my spoken spanish....but I can understant it w/ absolutely no problem (I regularly watch spanish movies w/out the subtitles) and can also write it well enough to be understood. But I guess w/ any foreign language, the key to "maintenance" is practice right? Regardless of whether it is reading, writing or speaking....there is a danger of losing all three if one does not actively practice these skills.

[homesick_american 1]

But if someone has been living in the US since they were a child, you'd think they'd have better English skills. I assumed Console must live in an ethnic enclave where English is not often spoken, but his post there shows that he does not consider that to be his case. I'm a little surprised. I have friends who came to the US from Venezuela and Mexico in 8th grade who speak and write English like natives. They are, for all intents and purposes now, natives.

Depends on how old they were when they went to the US and also on the individual. The younger you are the more likely you are to attain native fluency, but that is not always the case. A girl I know from high school went to the US from Nicaragua when she was 8 years old; she's now 32 and still has an accent. And a master's degree. A guy I knew from HS arrived at 15 from Romania; he's now 35 and his accent is quite strong. He also still makes mistakes in written and spoken English. A friend from Jordan arrived when she was 16; her English is absolutely perfect.

In general once you pass 40-50 you are pretty much incapable of becoming fluent in a foreign language; you can become proficient but the human brain just can't acquire new languages very well past a certain age.

[homesick_american 1]

Interesting...for me, speaking was the last and most difficult hurdle w/ any of the languages I learned (...and of course that is the critical one in order to be understood by those around you). I agree with you, that speaking and writing is connected...and part of 'active fluency', but for me, the speech is that which I forget first before any of the other components. For example, I learned to read/write and speak Spanish, in fact it was my minor in college, way back when. My fluency served me well when I was unable to find a job to save my life, (dot.com slump) and I used my Spanish fluency to teach school as a substitute in bilingual classes. Once I started in my current job/career, which does not involve the use of my spanish, I find myself floundering in my spoken spanish....but I can understant it w/ absolutely no problem (I regularly watch spanish movies w/out the subtitles) and can also write it well enough to be understood. But I guess w/ any foreign language, the key to "maintenance" is practice right? Regardless of whether it is reading, writing or speaking....there is a danger of losing all three if one does not actively practice these skills.

That's unusual; usually you lose writing before speaking. But yes, the key to maintenance is practice, i.e. use it or lose it. That also can apply to your native language; my grandmother's native language was Polish, but by the time she was in her 80s she could not speak it anymore. A guy I knew in HS came to the US from Romania when he was about 9; by HS graduation he couldn't speak Romanian anymore. Now THAT'S weird, particularly since his younger sister still could.

[Alex+R 0]

But if someone has been living in the US since they were a child, you'd think they'd have better English skills. I assumed Console must live in an ethnic enclave where English is not often spoken, but his post there shows that he does not consider that to be his case. I'm a little surprised. I have friends who came to the US from Venezuela and Mexico in 8th grade who speak and write English like natives. They are, for all intents and purposes now, natives.

Depends on how old they were when they went to the US and also on the individual. The younger you are the more likely you are to attain native fluency, but that is not always the case. A girl I know from high school went to the US from Nicaragua when she was 8 years old; she's now 32 and still has an accent. And a master's degree. A guy I knew from HS arrived at 15 from Romania; he's now 35 and his accent is quite strong. He also still makes mistakes in written and spoken English. A friend from Jordan arrived when she was 16; her English is absolutely perfect.

In general once you pass 40-50 you are pretty much incapable of becoming fluent in a foreign language; you can become proficient but the human brain just can't acquire new languages very well past a certain age.

Sure, but I bet I know which one of those friends of yours would even have a leg to stand on if she wanted to make fun of other immigrants' failures in English mastery.

[homesick_american 1]

Sure, but I bet I know which one of those friends of yours would even have a leg to stand on if she wanted to make fun of other immigrants' failures in English mastery.

Yeah, but none of them would. They're not a$$holes.

[Alex+R 0]

Sure, but I bet I know which one of those friends of yours would even have a leg to stand on if she wanted to make fun of other immigrants' failures in English mastery.

Yeah, but none of them would. They're not a$$holes.

[Minya's wife 25]

Interesting...for me, speaking was the last and most difficult hurdle w/ any of the languages I learned (...and of course that is the critical one in order to be understood by those around you). I agree with you, that speaking and writing is connected...and part of 'active fluency', but for me, the speech is that which I forget first before any of the other components. For example, I learned to read/write and speak Spanish, in fact it was my minor in college, way back when. My fluency served me well when I was unable to find a job to save my life, (dot.com slump) and I used my Spanish fluency to teach school as a substitute in bilingual classes. Once I started in my current job/career, which does not involve the use of my spanish, I find myself floundering in my spoken spanish....but I can understant it w/ absolutely no problem (I regularly watch spanish movies w/out the subtitles) and can also write it well enough to be understood. But I guess w/ any foreign language, the key to "maintenance" is practice right? Regardless of whether it is reading, writing or speaking....there is a danger of losing all three if one does not actively practice these skills.

That's unusual; usually you lose writing before speaking. But yes, the key to maintenance is practice, i.e. use it or lose it. That also can apply to your native language; my grandmother's native language was Polish, but by the time she was in her 80s she could not speak it anymore. A guy I knew in HS came to the US from Romania when he was about 9; by HS graduation he couldn't speak Romanian anymore. Now THAT'S weird, particularly since his younger sister still could.

That probably may have a lot to do w/ wanting to lose the language in a somewhat misguided belief that it would help in assimilation? (I know some immigrant parents choose to speak English only w/ their children thinking this will help them aquire the english more quickly, thereby assimilating more quickly in the 'mainstream'.)

I came here from Romania when I was 9, but my mother tongue is Hungarian. It is now 22 years later and I am still completely fluent to a native speaker level (read/write/speak) in both languages. The language you learn at a very young age, especially your mother tongue, I think is never lost completely. It may remain 'dormant' but w/ some practice it will come back easier than if you had to start learning the language from scratch, IMO.

Edited April 30, 2007 by Paula&Minya