Dual Citizenship Germany/USA -any experience?

[Logan5 1]

Hi,

I wanted to check if anybody here has successfully arranged for German-American dual citizenship in the past?

Would like to talk about it, maybe clear up some initial questions...

Thanks for letting me know!

Logan5

[akihon 129]

in which order? US then German, or German then US?

The former is slightly problematic, depending on the basis for your applying for German citizenship.

Edited March 7, 2016 by akihon

[HK12 273]

There is a good Yahoo group that you may want to check out, called "ZweiPaesse". Facebook also has a few groups concerning the topic of US-German dual citizenship.

[Logan5 1]

ah sorry, I mean getting the US Citizenship while keeping the German one

Thanks HK12, I will check it out

[JimmyHou 610]

Hi,

I wanted to check if anybody here has successfully arranged for German-American dual citizenship in the past?

Would like to talk about it, maybe clear up some initial questions...

Thanks for letting me know!

Logan5

There are many people on VJ who have done this successfully. Search for Beibehaltungsgenehmigung on this website and you should be able to find some relevant posts and members who you can message directly.

Just as an example, there's this old thread from 2010.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/241744-dual-americangerman-citizenship-beibehaltungsgenehmigung/

Edited March 7, 2016 by JimmyHou

[akihon 129]

ah sorry, I mean getting the US Citizenship while keeping the German one

You shouldn't have any problems.

[JimmyHou 610]

You shouldn't have any problems.

There's a special application required in order to retain German citizenship when voluntarily acquiring a second nationality. Without doing this, the OP could lose German citizenship.

[Logan5 1]

very helpful links indeed, thanks!

I have gone over some threads but it seems nobody is actually too specific as what constitutes a valid reason to obtain US Citizenship in the first place.

I also cannot find any helpful information as how to provide evidence of existing ties to Germany.

For the GC it was pretty straight forward: bank account, photos, travel documents, etc.

The German "branch" doesn't seem to be too helpful about what exactly they want to see ://

[JimmyHou 610]

very helpful links indeed, thanks!

I have gone over some threads but it seems nobody is actually too specific as what constitutes a valid reason to obtain US Citizenship in the first place.

I also cannot find any helpful information as how to provide evidence of existing ties to Germany.

For the GC it was pretty straight forward: bank account, photos, travel documents, etc.

The German "branch" doesn't seem to be too helpful about what exactly they want to see ://

There was a very recent post... in the last two months, about an applicant who lost her German citizenship because she didn't know about this. The poster (the applicant's husband) was looking for information on possible getting dual citizenship permission after the fact... I'm sorry, I don't know where or when exactly this was posted.

Try posting in the Europe-specific forum.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/forum/95-europe-eurasia-except-the-uk-and-russia/

[akihon 129]

There's a special application required in order to retain German citizenship when voluntarily acquiring a second nationality. Without doing this, the OP could lose German citizenship.

So basically, the same thing that happens when you voluntarily obtain foreign citizenship after your US citizenship, except instead of a special application, the US considers your US citizenship abandoned.

I meant obtaining US citizenship shouldn't be a problem for the OP.

Maintaining German citizenship is a whole other story and I'm not qualified to comment. I'm of a country that doesn't even recognize/allow dual citizenship.

Edited March 7, 2016 by akihon

[HK12 273]

very helpful links indeed, thanks!

I have gone over some threads but it seems nobody is actually too specific as what constitutes a valid reason to obtain US Citizenship in the first place.

I also cannot find any helpful information as how to provide evidence of existing ties to Germany.

For the GC it was pretty straight forward: bank account, photos, travel documents, etc.

The German "branch" doesn't seem to be too helpful about what exactly they want to see ://

Check out the Yahoo group that I recommended earlier. It has sample letters showing the reasons that people have successfully used to obtain their BBG. Obtaining a BBG cannot be as straightforward as getting a Green Card, as the BBG is always granted on a case-by-case basis.

Reasons for US citizenship could include not being able to apply for jobs that require US citizenship, problems with security clearances, etc.

Binding ties to Germany could be close family and friends, entitlement to pensions (Rentenanwartschaft), expected inheritances, a possible return to Germany, and so on.

Edited March 7, 2016 by HK12

[Brokenness 3]

Hi,

My wife is going through this process right now. She applied for and received the Buibehalthungsgenehmigung. It is a bit simpler that it seems. From my understanding, the German government wants you to full fill three key requests; and if you fulfill these requests-you will usually be approved. Zweipasses gives many examples and should be used as a key resource.

In short, you have to demonstrated that you have sufficient ties to Germany: by speaking the language, having friends and family in Germany, knowledge about the German culture, bank accounts in Germany, going to school in Germany-the point here is that you have a general tie to Germany and not were born of German parents and did not really live in Germany.

The second point is to demonstrate you will be at a disadvantage for not having a German passport. Can you visit your ailing parents at any time? Will you have a larger inheritance tax if your parents pass if you are a foreigner?

The third point is what is the disadvantage for not having a US citizenship. This could be difficulty of leaving for more than six months at a time and maintaining a family in the US. Looking for a job which requires a US citizenship.

If you fulfill these three requirements, they usually will approve your application> the only caveat is that you have only one chance...and all three points have to be satisfied.

[Logan5 1]

Can I ask you, Brokenness, for specifics about some points you made? The general idea, I understand. However, what those points mean can be quite challenging to understand...

"speaking the language": I was born in Germany, went to school, graduated from college, etc. Do I proof "that" by submitting my degree(s)?

"having friends and family in Germany": My whole family and probably 60% of my friends are German. Do I proof that by submitting copies of their IDs, or social media transcripts, if any, or how exactly?

"knowledge about the German culture": eugh..... photos of my German book collection? receipts of museum tickets? This is so vague...

"disadvantage for not having a German passport": my wife and I plan on moving to Germany for a while but not in the next 2 years. she wants to learn the language, go back to school and get a post-graduate degree. Also, we were thinking about having our kids in Germany. But... none of this is de facto in progress or even planned. It's just an intention. How do I "proof" that? Also, of course I would want to take care of my eventually super-senior parents but that's not anytime soon either.

"disadvantage for not having a US citizenship": I understand this is based mostly on economic factors. There is work that I dont get delegated bc I dont have the necessary security clearance. Do I just "state" that or do I need a letter from my employer or something similar? Do I just copy-paste the law that says only US Citizens can get that security clearance?

In all, I am in a big black hole about some specific examples on how to approach this. The German government does not say what exactly they want to see and I cannot find much information from approved applicants about what they actually submitted.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Logan5

[JimmyHou 610]

So basically, the same thing that happens when you voluntarily obtain foreign citizenship after your US citizenship, except instead of a special application, the US considers your US citizenship abandoned.

I meant obtaining US citizenship shouldn't be a problem for the OP.

Maintaining German citizenship is a whole other story and I'm not qualified to comment. I'm of a country that doesn't even recognize/allow dual citizenship.

I don't want to go too far off the original topic, but I just want to add a small note to your comment... actually, the US doesn't consider your US citizenship abandoned even if you voluntarily apply for and acquire another nationality... the law says that your citizenship will be considered abandoned only if you apply and acquire another nationality with the intention of surrendering US nationality. Even then, the government can't just take away your nationality, they need a court order to do so and have to show this intent on your behalf (not hard if they really want to get you).

Practically, you would have to either formally surrender citizenship at a US consulate (very expensive) or acquire new citizenship AND annoy the US government enough for them to bring a case against you claiming that you intended to give up US citizenship. Many people voluntarily get other citizenships and the US generally ignores this.

Of course you can also be denaturalized (if you are a naturalized citizen) for lying on your immigration documents.

So the German requirement is much more restrictive, but not as restrictive as the regulations in India, China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, etc.

Now let me get out of here and let the Germans deal with this! :-)

Edited March 8, 2016 by JimmyHou

[aaron2020 11,651]

So basically, the same thing that happens when you voluntarily obtain foreign citizenship after your US citizenship, except instead of a special application, the US considers your US citizenship abandoned.

I meant obtaining US citizenship shouldn't be a problem for the OP.

Maintaining German citizenship is a whole other story and I'm not qualified to comment. I'm of a country that doesn't even recognize/allow dual citizenship.

You are wrong about this.

There are no US laws allowing for or forbidding dual citizenship. Since it's not forbidden, a US citizen can gain additional citizenships.

Obtaining US citizenship would be problematic for a German citizen.

Edited March 8, 2016 by aaron2020