N-400 in New York

[NuHere 6]

Seems like 6-8 months is the average processing time. Summers are apparently the slowest.

Would it make sense to wait with filing till Sep or Oct instead of now?

Do you guys think that if I applied in the fall, things could faster and in the end I could be done sooner than if I applied now?

Checking the USCIS website, it said the last update for New York City NY field office was from June 30 and the N-400 Processing Timeframe was November 13, 2013.

Thank you.

[jkelly07 120]

if me.I would file now you may be finished by dec 2014 it took me from start to finished 4 and half months,you file now aug middle of October you do biometrics finger prints,end of November interview letter civil test,jan 2015 oath ceremony.

[JimmyHou 610]

Seems like 6-8 months is the average processing time. Summers are apparently the slowest.

Would it make sense to wait with filing till Sep or Oct instead of now?

Do you guys think that if I applied in the fall, things could faster and in the end I could be done sooner than if I applied now?

Checking the USCIS website, it said the last update for New York City NY field office was from June 30 and the N-400 Processing Timeframe was November 13, 2013.

Thank you.

They're not going to process October applications before they process August applications except for specific applications that are delayed for a particular reason.

If the summer is slower it's because more people are applying just now, but they're going to work through those applications first.

So if you apply now you're going to get done sooner than if you wait two months to apply.

It's not guaranteed that this October is going to be faster, but let's assume it is for the sake of argument... what you suggested is the equivalent of saying:

Rush hour is from 4pm to 6pm, so if I leave at 6pm, I'll get to my destination sooner than if I leave at 4pm. That's not the case, it's just that if you leave at 4, it'll take you an hour and you'll get there at 5, and if you leave at 6, it'll only take you half an hour and you'll get there at 6:30. Even though it takes longer at 4, you'll still get there sooner than if you left at 6.

So if your goal is to minimize the time between application and approval, apply in October (assuming that October will be faster).

But if your goal is to get naturalized as soon as possible, apply as soon as you are eligible.

Edited August 9, 2014 by JimmyHou

[NuHere 6]

I thought maybe the summer timelines are significantly longer, so by waiting a month (or so), I could at the end save more time than that.

What you're saying makes sense.

I'd like for the whole process to be fast, of course.

Ultimately, it's not how long it takes that matters though. I'd like to be naturalized as soon as possible.

I've been eligible for many years.

[JimmyHou 610]

I thought maybe the summer timelines are significantly longer, so by waiting a month (or so), I could at the end save more time than that.

What you're saying makes sense.

I'd like for the whole process to be fast, of course.

Ultimately, it's not how long it takes that matters though. I'd like to be naturalized as soon as possible.

I've been eligible for many years.

I think you should apply now since you're eligible. The longer you wait, the longer it'll be before you are naturalized. If things speed up next month, then your application will benefit from that too, because it'll start progressing faster. There's no benefit to waiting because the same people who will eventually review the October applications will have already looked at your August application. If there are no complications in your application process, you should be naturalized before any New York applicant who files in October.

Of course, since NYC is so slow, you may see October filers in Houston or Columbus being naturalized before you even though you're applying in August... so make sure you just compare yourself to others who are applying through the same office. Also note that there are three offices in the NYC area and that they have different wait times.

So get your paperwork together and go for it! Come back and join the August filers when you've sent everything in so we can cheer you on.

[NuHere 6]

Yes, I have only been checking for New York, NY office in other posts... not Queens, NY. Those are the other 2 offices that I don't think apply to me.

Unfortunately, seems like the one in Manhattan is the slowest one in the country.

A friend of mine got recently naturalized in San Francisco and the whole thing was done under 4 months.

Sounds like I won't gain anything by waiting and should just go for it.

[NuHere 6]

Just out of curiosity, why is Hispanic / Latino ethnicity singled out on the form?

There are so many ethnicities, why do they only care whether you are Hispanic / Latino or not?

[JimmyHou 610]

Just out of curiosity, why is Hispanic / Latino ethnicity singled out on the form?

There are so many ethnicities, why do they only care whether you are Hispanic / Latino or not?

For some reason that I don't understand, Hispanic/Latino is defined as an "ethnicity" while Asian, White, Black/African American, Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander are all defined as "races". That's why they are listed as two separate questions. You can be ethnically Latino and racially Black or you can be ethnically Latino and racially White.

Maybe a Sociologist can tell us why, but that's the way the Census data is collected in the US.

I still think it's hilarious that I'm supposed to put down "White" because of the census definitions.

Of course, there are other races and other ethnicity that aren't mentioned, but the ones listed are those monitored by the Census because of the numbers of Americans that fall into that category. For example, although there are large Armenian and Somali communities in the US, those ethnicities can only be entered on the Census forms under "Other".

The following is a list of race definitions from Census.gov - note that Hispanic/Latino is not listed as a race:

White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

Black or African American – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.

American Indian or Alaska Native – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Asian – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.

Edited August 10, 2014 by JimmyHou

[NuHere 6]

Exactly. I would understand if Hispanic/Latino was in the race category as well and then if they want to know your ethnicity, you put down your ethnicity... Senegalese, Irish, whatever.

Edited August 10, 2014 by NuHere

[Darth Vader Rises 1]

I've always been enthralled with racial and ethnic identity, so I'll frame my response in the broader context as well as clarify the doubts rased by JimmyHou and NuHere.

First of all, ethnic and racial identity are two very distinct concepts which, unfortunately, are poorly understood in the United States, and the instinct of US society to be ethnocentric and frame things through poorly-defined perspectives excacerbates this lack of understanding.

- Ethnic identity (i.e. ethnicity) refers to the sum total of an individual's identity based on a combination of some or all of the cultural, linguistic, geographical, or political heritage experiences shared within the group. They are entirely socio-cultural in nature.

Therefore, an ethnic German might be one who speaks German, was born and raised in Germany, and traces his heritage to others with similar cultural backgrounds. It is independent of race in that a Black Namibian immigrant who emigrated to Germany in the early 1800s and settled there will raise a family that is ethnically German, but racially Negro.

- Racial identity (i.e. race) refers to the well-defined physical markers identified by anthropolgy that describe a person's apperance traits. They are entirely biological and anthropological in nature. Therefore, the distinct texture of hair, shape of nose and lips and concentration of melanin in the skin are among those markers that define the Negro race, while the short stature, thick, wiry hair, and coffee-toned skin are racial markers of many of the native Indian tribes of The Americas.

Clearly then, one could racially be Black and identify ethnically as German, or be racially White, and identify ethnically as Irish (or White South African).

Secondly, it should be noted that while, in this country, "Hispanic" and "Latino" are used interchangeably, there are subtle differences:

- Hispanic refers to all peoples who have a descended cultural identity from Spain either in terms of ancestry, or their use of the Spanish language. This would include the vast majority of Latinos in the United States, The Americas, and, permit me to be so bold as to say, the world

- Latino, on the other hand, would seem more politically and sociologically inclusive (and correct!). It includes all people whose ancestry or language descends from the peoples of Latin countries. There are five principal ones, all European, which are: France, Italy, Spain, Portugal and Romania. Therefore, by virtue of language alone, Haitiens (who speak French and a French-based Creole), Brasilians (who speak Portuguese) would be added to the Hispanic sub-set to form the more inclusive, albeit, somewhat generalised, ethnicity of Latino within The Americas.

From all this, one could therefore be Black and Latino (Afrolatino or "Blatino" as you may have heard in pop culture), or Black and not Latino, or White and Latino (like the majority of Cubans in South Florida who fled Cuba in the 1950s and 1960s during the Cuban Revolution), etc, etc.

Thirdly, and to anwer the question at hand, the United States census bureau in the last few decades has begun to pay more attention to the single largest general ethnic group in the United States because race politics and US society's poor understanding of racial and ethnic diversity means that those who are labelled as Hispanic or Latino often have little clarity on how to identify themselves racially since the overwhelming majority of all Latino peoples in the Americas are either mixed race with races that are not predominant in the United States, or Black. The designation on forms collating demographics that single out Hispanic/Latino from the broader population is an inelegant solution to avoid having mixed-race Latinos identify as "Other" if there are alternatives that can better define them. I agree that the focus is on one single etnicity as NuHere pointed out, but it is arguably the single most important one in terms of its size, diversity, and the fact that it really is an amalgamation of many other ethnicities conveniently, and sometimes insultingly, wrapped into one for the convenience of US society's simplified perspective of race and ethnicity.

When police give descriptions of suspects and define a wanted man is Hispanic or Latino, I cringe because, while I understand what is trying to be said, it is impossible to describe a person's physical traits by is ethnicity, and such a characterisation is therefore wrong. The vasy majority of the time, when people describe a person as looking Latino, the racial identity of the person is probably Mestizo: a mixed-race identity that appears not to have been properly explained in US schools and continues to be midunserstood.

A few months ago, a question popped up in the N-400 April 2014 filers. If I find my response there, I will post the link in the next post.

For some reason that I don't understand, Hispanic/Latino is defined as an "ethnicity" while Asian, White, Black/African American, Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islander are all defined as "races". That's why they are listed as two separate questions. You can be ethnically Latino and racially Black or you can be ethnically Latino and racially White.

Maybe a Sociologist can tell us why, but that's the way the Census data is collected in the US.

I still think it's hilarious that I'm supposed to put down "White" because of the census definitions.

Of course, there are other races and other ethnicity that aren't mentioned, but the ones listed are those monitored by the Census because of the numbers of Americans that fall into that category. For example, although there are large Armenian and Somali communities in the US, those ethnicities can only be entered on the Census forms under "Other".

The following is a list of race definitions from Census.gov - note that Hispanic/Latino is not listed as a race:

White – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa.

Black or African American – A person having origins in any of the Black racial groups of Africa.

American Indian or Alaska Native – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of North and South America (including Central America) and who maintains tribal affiliation or community attachment.

Asian – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of the Far East, Southeast Asia, or the Indian subcontinent including, for example, Cambodia, China, India, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, the Philippine Islands, Thailand, and Vietnam.

Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander – A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Hawaii, Guam, Samoa, or other Pacific Islands.

[Darth Vader Rises 1]

It was not in the April thread, but another forum altogether. The link is posted below:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/488853-n-400-confusing-question/

[NuHere 6]

Excellent and very informative posts. Thank you very much for taking the time to type it up.

I remember some Mexican friends of mine being annoyed by the term Latino. They would always explain to people that it was incorrect to call them that. Other Mexican friends would refer to themselves as Latinos all the time.

On the west coast, the term Latino was used for pretty much every one while on the east coast, people use the term Spanish.... which to me is even more retarded. It's like calling all white people Dutch.

Edited August 10, 2014 by NuHere

[Darth Vader Rises 1]

On the west coast, the term Latino was used for pretty much every one while on the east coast, people use the term Spanish.... which to me is even more retarded. It's like calling all white people Dutch.

Precisely!

[na123 2]

Today I went to my interview and the IO made me feel horribly uncomfortable. She wouldn't even look at me while asking me any of the questions. She went straight from asking me my name and DOB to how many amendments are in the constitution? She was looking straight at her computer the whole time. I passed the civics and english portion but I got so nervous that I completely forgot exact addresses of previous employers and exact dates of past travels. She gave me such a nasty look when I couldn't tell her what exact address I worked at in 2008. I left feeling very worried. She gave me the N-652 and she checked off the "you passed the tests of English and U.S. history and government" section and the "USCIS will send you a written decision about your application" but no check on "Congratulations! Your app has been recommended for approval" or "a decision cannot yet be made".. I am terrified since I couldn't confirm with her exact dates or addresses of employment (even though they were in the N-400 I had previously sent). I left feeling like a worried idiot. I did provide every piece of information she requested. I don't know what to expect from this. I just hope I don't have to go through this again.

[FaZz 2]

Sorry to hear about your bad luck with that IO, if all the info you provided in the N400 is clear and true you have got nothing to fear.... I guess your file will be forwarded to her superior for review & approval then oath date in the mail soon...