Legal Gun Owners Can Deter Crime, Says Detroit Police Chief

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The Police Chief for Detroit says that the crime stats decreased in 2013 and I think he's trying to say, also, that gun owners in Detroit are the reason for the decrease in crime.

Yes?No ? Is that the gist of it?

No, that's not the gist of it.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

In 2012, over 34,000 people were killed by vehicles, about 3X those killed by guns.

Incorrect. There were well over 30,000 people killed by guns in the US in 2012. Fact is that come next year it is widely expected that more people will be die a gun related death than a vehcile related death.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Incorrect. There were well over 30,000 people killed by guns in the US in 2012. Fact is that come next year it is widely expected that more people will be die a gun related death than a vehcile related death.

Maybe YOU expect it to happen. Haven't seen that on the news anywhere. But since you are including the 17K + suicides by gun, then we need to get the number of suicides by vehicle and add that to the number of vehicle deaths, too.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Fact is that come next year it is widely expected that more people will be die a gun related death than a vehcile related death.

How do you support this "fact", in light of the fact that gun deaths have dropped by about 50% since 1993? The trend has been downward, not upward. Why your personal prediction that it will trend up this year?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

In 2012, over 34,000 people were killed by vehicles, about 3X those killed by guns. Perhaps we should push for a vehicle ban. I hope your strong feelings against guns continue in that same vein, and you sell your car(s) very soon.

Why do people love to compare guns to cars? IMO, they serve two completely different purposes, so why is there always a comparison between the two?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Why do people love to compare guns to cars? IMO, they serve two completely different purposes, so why is there always a comparison between the two?

Because people like to ride a bullet to work? Yeah, I dont get it either.

In 2012, over 34,000 people were killed by vehicles, about 3X those killed by guns. Perhaps we should push for a vehicle ban. I hope your strong feelings against guns continue in that same vein, and you sell your car(s) very soon.

Sorry, I'm not buying that tired argument.

Cars are for transport. Guns are for shooting. Who knew!?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How do you support this "fact", in light of the fact that gun deaths have dropped by about 50% since 1993? The trend has been downward, not upward. Why your personal prediction that it will trend up this year?

American Gun Deaths to Exceed Traffic Fatalities by 2015

Maybe YOU expect it to happen. Haven't seen that on the news anywhere. But since you are including the 17K + suicides by gun, then we need to get the number of suicides by vehicle and add that to the number of vehicle deaths, too.

The numbers are all inclusive on both sides of the ledger. If you haven't seen this in the news anywhere, maybe it is time to re-evaluate your news sources.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Way too easy, maybe one day both sides will see this and make the change.

I agree with your statement but we have spent trillions and trillions and have gotten zero in Return.

In fact we have Destroyed family structures,created more poverty and generation after generation of Government dependence

we spend more on education than ever but the results are worse than ever

We have got to tie all Govt programs to some kind of self responsibility, in which you earn the right to be in the programs by advancing

Having 3 kids before 19 and staying on Govt assistance for life can not continue

.

[Teddy B 17,252]

In 2012, over 34,000 people were killed by vehicles, about 3X those killed by guns. Perhaps we should push for a vehicle ban. I hope your strong feelings against guns continue in that same vein, and you sell your car(s) very soon.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Trouble is, your "strong" argument against guns because of the 30K+ deaths is MOSTLY suicide. Death by homicide gun rates are continuing to drop, while suicide rates continue to go up. 19K+ by suicide alone in 2011.

IF you could take away all guns at once by waving a magic wand, guess how many suicides will go down? Probably somewhere between none and a very few. People who want to kill themselves will do so. Guns just happen to be easy and relatively painless. Take away the guns, and more people will kill themselves with nitrogen. Let's see how a ban on nitrogen goes over...

So you might be able to proclaim a rise in total gun deaths, but your main drum-beating topic, homicides (because of all the gun-toting "irresponsible" concealed carry fanatics out there) are on the decline.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The funny thing is I don't actually own a car, I commute to the city by train. Public transport, being in the main quite convenient.

That said I am not average to owning a car if I needed one; for a lot of people a car is simply a necessary part of living in an industrialised society.

A gun on the other hand is not a necessary part of daily life for the majority of people. If you feel it is, then maybe it's time to sell up and move to a safer area.

[DavenRoxy 1,073]

Why do people love to compare guns to cars? IMO, they serve two completely different purposes, so why is there always a comparison between the two?

Because both cause a large amount of deaths. Just think... if we were all Amish, there would be VERY FEW carriage deaths, and no gun deaths by homicide (still have gun suicides to contend with though).

Cars are for driving. Guns are for hunting and shooting targets. It's not the cars' nor the guns' fault that they are used wrongly by the human in control.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Trouble is, your "strong" argument against guns because of the 30K+ deaths is MOSTLY suicide. Death by homicide gun rates are continuing to drop, while suicide rates continue to go up. 19K+ by suicide alone in 2011.

IF you could take away all guns at once by waving a magic wand, guess how many suicides will go down? Probably somewhere between none and a very few. People who want to kill themselves will do so. Guns just happen to be easy and relatively painless. Take away the guns, and more people will kill themselves with nitrogen. Let's see how a ban on nitrogen goes over...

So you might be able to proclaim a rise in total gun deaths, but your main drum-beating topic, homicides (because of all the gun-toting "irresponsible" concealed carry fanatics out there) are on the decline.

The argument is that proliferation is the cause of those deaths. Who is doing the killing and why isn't particularly important.

The people who did that study were illustrating a simple point - Sandy Hook was an atrocity, but one that seems to repeat itself on a semi regular basis and while people are BSing around making silly semantic arguments how guns are somehow comparable with cars, pens, plastic bags and strong farts, in a year guns have been the cause of death for the population of a small town.

Why defend that?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I agree with your statement but we have spent trillions and trillions and have gotten zero in Return.

In fact we have Destroyed family structures,created more poverty and generation after generation of Government dependence

we spend more on education than ever but the results are worse than ever

We have got to tie all Govt programs to some kind of self responsibility, in which you earn the right to be in the programs by advancing

Having 3 kids before 19 and staying on Govt assistance for life can not continue

.

We're talking about two different things here. Instead of arguing with you, let me try this a different way:

Start with a police force that gives a damn. You know, one that actually patrols the neighborhood and stops crime. I've been to ESL more than once and I swear it's the same dude I've seen every time I drive through there. You'd think it's just him in the entire city. This is why crime there is off the chart. One of my sailors was robbed there at gunpoint. I took him to the police station there, that one cop was there and tried to take his report. His attitude was so bad, we didn't even finish the paperwork, I had to drag him out of there before we both got locked up.

Get the street crews back so they can clean up the mess. We've been hit with one of the worse snow storms in the last 30 years. Yet, you can always tell what neighborhoods get the service. In the "decent" part of town, the road crews are out there 24/7 clearing the streets. If you live in an "urban" area, not a chance. My aunt stays close to downtown STL, I took her home from our family dinner before Christmas. My wife asked why some streets were clear and others look like #######, even though they're only a block in between. My aunt looked at me and said, why don't you explain it to her?

There is more to it that Gov programs. The poison that plagues any poor community is rooted so deeply, it takes more than an idea and some tough talk to get through it.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

I am glad to see the cars vs guns argument again. It had been awhile.