Israel demands Palestinian Authority curb protests

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Israel demands Palestinian Authority curb protests

By Jeffrey Heller

JERUSALEM | Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:09am EST

(Reuters) - Israel on Sunday demanded the Palestinian Authority stem a surge of anti-Israeli protests ahead of U.S. President Barack Obama's visit to the region next month.

A senior aide to Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas gave no indication the Authority, which exercises limited self-rule in the occupied West Bank, would issue any call for calm, and blamed Israel for the spike in unrest.

The death in an Israeli jail of a Palestinian detainee on Saturday and an on-going hunger strike by four inmates have fuelled tensions in the West Bank, where stone-throwing protesters clashed again with Israeli soldiers on Sunday.

Some 3,000 prisoners held a one-day fast on Sunday after the detainee's death, which Israel said was caused by a heart attack, an explanation challenged by Palestinian officials.

"Israel has conveyed to the Palestinian Authority an unequivocal demand to calm the territory," an Israeli government official said, adding the message was delivered by one of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's top aides.

As an apparent incentive to Palestinian leaders to intervene, Israel pledged to proceed with this month's transfer to the Authority of around $100 million in tax revenues that it collects on its behalf.

Israel began withholding the funds, money the Palestinian Authority badly needs to pay public sector salaries, after Abbas secured U.N. de facto recognition of Palestinian statehood in November.

Under international pressure, Israel announced it would release $100 million to the Palestinian Authority last month.

In the latest clashes, hundreds of Palestinian protesters, in several towns and villages in the West Bank, hurled stones at Israeli soldiers, who responded with tear gas and stun grenades.

There were no reports of serious injuries in the confrontations, after a wave of violent protests last week in solidarity with the four hunger-striking prisoners.

Some 4,700 Palestinians are in Israeli jails, many of them convicted of anti-Israeli attacks and others detained without trial. Palestinians see them as heroes in a statehood struggle, and the death of any of the hunger-strikers would likely trigger widespread violence.

Prisoners affiliated with Hamas, the Islamist militant group that governs the Gaza Strip, issued a call for a new Palestinian uprising.

Abbas said in an Israeli television interview three months ago he would not allow a third armed Intifada to break out and that Palestinians would pursue their cause peacefully.

Amos Gilad, a senior Israeli Defence Ministry official, questioned whether the protests were just a tactical move by the Palestinians to draw international attention before Obama's visit to Israel, the West Bank and Jordan.

But he added, in an Israel Radio interview: "Things can get out of control."

OBAMA AGENDA

Netanyahu has said Iran's nuclear program would top the agenda of his meetings with Obama, but that the talks also would deal with Israeli-Palestinian peace efforts stalled since 2010.

Yasser Abed Rabbo, a senior Abbas aide, said Israel's treatment of prisoners and anti-Palestinian violence by Jewish settlers were "the cause of the deterioration".

Israel said it would carry out an autopsy of the body of Arafat Jaradat, the 30-year-old prisoner who died on Saturday. Israel's Prisons Authority said he had not been on a hunger strike and had been examined by an Israeli doctor during an interrogation on Thursday.

The first Palestinian uprising began in 1987 and ended in 1993, when the Oslo interim peace accords were signed.

The second Intifada broke out in 2000 after the failure of talks on a final peace settlement. Over the following seven years, more than 1,000 Israelis died, half of them in suicide attacks mostly against civilians, and more than 4,500 Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces.

(Additional reporting by Ali Sawafta, Nidal al-Mughrabi, Noah Browning and Ari Rabinovitch; Editing by Rosalind Russell)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/24/us-palestinians-israel-idUSBRE91N08E20130224

Israel badly wants a third Intifada, and has been doing its best to egg one on. It just doesn't want one while Obama is there.

Note that the money Israel is offering as a bribe to the PA in return for clamping down on protests is the PA's own money, which Israel has been illegally withholding as "punishment" for the PA's bid for Palestine to be recognized as a state by the UN. This action alone has instigated much of the increase in protests in the West Bank - it's causing widespread economic hardship as the PA cannot pay salaries to the more than 15% of the population who are employed by the PA - school teachers, police, firefighters, health workers, and more. Israel knows this very well, and is hoping that it can eventually spark another Intifada, which can then be used as an excuse to delay negotiations to end the occupation, the colonization, and make a final agreement on where exactly Israel's borders are.

Edited February 24, 2013 by wife_of_mahmoud

[OriZ 3,157]

Israel badly wants a third Intifada, and has been doing its best to egg one on. It just doesn't want one while Obama is there.

Note that the money Israel is offering as a bribe to the PA in return for clamping down on protests is the PA's own money, which Israel has been illegally withholding as "punishment" for the PA's bid for Palestine to be recognized as a state by the UN. This action alone has instigated much of the increase in protests in the West Bank - it's causing widespread economic hardship as the PA cannot pay salaries to the more than 15% of the population who are employed by the PA - school teachers, police, firefighters, health workers, and more. Israel knows this very well, and is hoping that it can eventually spark another Intifada, which can then be used as an excuse to delay negotiations to end the occupation, the colonization, and make a final agreement on where exactly Israel's borders are.

While I disagreed with witholding the funds, I also disagree with two things you've written.

1. Israel does NOT want another intifiada.

2. Actually, the money isn't really the PA's, being the PA owes money to Israel's government owned Electric company.

Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz completed the transfer of NIS 435 million worth of Palestinian financial forfeiture to the Israel Electric Corporation on Wednesday morning, the ministry announced later in the day.

The Palestinian Authority has already accumulated hundreds of millions of shekels in debt it owes to the IEC, the ministry stressed. While during past political crises the Israeli government simply decided to delay the transfer of funds to the PA, in light of the PA’s unilateral request to upgrade its UN status Steinitz and Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu decided to transfer the Palestinian assets directly to the IEC.

The government can deduct allocations for electricity, water, hospital treatments and other infrastructural services Israel provides to the PA.

In August the IEC warned it might intermittently cut power supplies to the West Bank due to NIS 662m. in unpaid debts from Palestinian consumers – a decision that was postponed due to the Ramadan holiday.

The sum has already risen to nearly NIS 730m., according to Hisham Omari, CEO of the Jerusalem District Electricity Company (JDECO), who spoke with The Jerusalem Post on Wednesday.

JDECO, which provides power to east Jerusalem and the eastern portion of the West Bank, owed the IEC NIS 423m. as of August, and now owes nearly NIS 460m., according to Omari. The remaining amount of debt comes from a combination of the Gaza Strip and areas in the northern and southern West Bank that fall outside JDECO’s jurisdiction and instead are the PA’s direct responsibility.

In August, Omari told the Post that JDECO’s debt to the IEC was primarily due to the tendency by refugee camp residents to refuse to pay their electric bills, but also because government bodies had also failed to pay.

Because the PA is struggling financially it has cut employees’ wages, creating a situation where neither government institutions nor their employees are willing to pay their bills to JDECO. Also, electricity theft is rampant in Area C of the West Bank because the Palestinian police are unable to patrol there, Omari said.

In Gaza, the Hamas government collects fees from residents and businesses for electricity use, but never transfers them to the Palestinian Energy Authority in Ramallah, using the money for its own purposes, Omari explained in August.

All of Gaza, therefore, essentially receives electricity “free of charge,” he said.

As for Wednesday’s NIS 435m. transfer, Omari said he learned about it from the media and had not yet received any “formal news that we can speak about.” There has not yet been any indication as to how the debt coverage would be distributed and whether JDECO would benefit.

“When they give back this amount I don’t know how they will distribute it,” Omari told the Post. “If they will include us or not, I don’t have any real official information.”

http://www.jpost.com/Sci-Tech/Article.aspx?id=295690

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

While I disagreed with witholding the funds, I also disagree with two things you've written.

1. Israel does NOT want another intifiada.

2. Actually, the money isn't really the PA's, being the PA owes money to Israel's government owned Electric company.

http://www.jpost.com/Sci-Tech/Article.aspx?id=295690

BS. Either the JPost cannot do math, or they're deliberately being deceptive.

Israel collects (on the average) 400 million shekels per month in tax revenue for the PA - this comes out to almost $108 million in US dollars. Per month. Israel began withholding the money in December 2012, as punishment for the PA's statehood bid (as Israel already stated - it had nothing to do with electric bills, overdue or not.)

Including the March 2013 tax revenues, which Israel has already announced it will withhold, this adds up to about 1600 million shekels which is about $430 million in US dollars. The claimed electric debt was 730 Israeli shekels, which is about $197 million US. This means Israel has grabbed more than $200 million US dollars more than that amount.

Also, don't ignore the fact that about 2/3 of the electric debt is owed by a company that serves mainly occupied East Jerusalem and the nearby refugee camps, which Israel has placed under its own civil control. This means these places are outside the area where the PA has any power of law enforcement - it cannot control electricity theft there. Israel has already recognized this fact, but it doesn't want the PA to be able to enforce electricity theft in East Jerusalem, because that would be "recognizing" PA jurisdiction there.

The remaining 1/3 of the debt - the part owned by areas under control of the PA - was paid regularly from the money Israel deducted from the monthly tax transfers, while transferring the rest.

If Israel doesn't want another Intifada, it should stop inciting one.

Edited February 25, 2013 by wife_of_mahmoud

[OriZ 3,157]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/12/us-palestinians-israel-funds-idUSBRE8BB09V20121212

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/12/2012122101441576517.html

It's not just the Jerusalem post.

I didn't say all of the money, but I had to put it out there ya know.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/12/us-palestinians-israel-funds-idUSBRE8BB09V20121212

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2012/12/2012122101441576517.html

It's not just the Jerusalem post.

I didn't say all of the money, but I had to put it out there ya know.

LOL do you even read the articles you link ???? They confirm everything I just posted:

According to your first one:

Israel will withhold tax revenues from Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's administration until March at least in response to his statehood campaign at the United Nations, Israel's foreign minister said.

...

Israel collects some $100 million a month in duties on behalf of the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the occupied West Bank

...

Israel has already withheld the December transfer, saying the money would be used to start paying off $200 million the Palestinians owe the Israel Electric Corporation.

So Israel is keeping $400 million to pay off $200 million.

And no mention of the issue in East Jerusalem, which is 2/3 of the amount owed. So do you have any comment on why the Palestinian Authority should be responsible for collecting money from the company that supplies electrical service to occupied East Jerusalem, when it has no legal or political jurisdiction over East Jerusalem or the company that supplies electrical service there ????

[OriZ 3,157]

LOL do you even read the articles you link ???? They confirm everything I just posted:

According to your first one:

So Israel is keeping $400 million to pay off $200 million.

And no mention of the issue in East Jerusalem, which is 2/3 of the amount owed. So do you have any comment on why the Palestinian Authority should be responsible for collecting money from the company that supplies electrical service to occupied East Jerusalem, when it has no legal or political jurisdiction over East Jerusalem or the company that supplies electrical service there ????

Did you read my last sentence before you thought to ask me if I read what I posted? And no, it's not keeping 400 million, not anymore...

The East Jerusalem Electric company owes 450 million out of 750 million, that's still 300 million that they owe even without that. And, even though it's an East Jerusalem electric company, it supplies electricity to more than the Israeli controlled neighborhoods of east Jerusalem. It supplies electricity to a total of a million people, including in Ramallah, Bethlehem and Jericho. It does not supply electricity to the Nablus, Hebron or Jenin area.

Also, off topic but it's a topic we've discussed before, if you don't know Hebrew have your husband translate it or something...worth a read:

http://article.yedioth.co.il/default.aspx?articleid=6992

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Did you read my last sentence before you thought to ask me if I read what I posted? And no, it's not keeping 400 million, not anymore...

The East Jerusalem Electric company owes 450 million out of 750 million, that's still 300 million that they owe even without that. And, even though it's an East Jerusalem electric company, it supplies electricity to more than the Israeli controlled neighborhoods of east Jerusalem. It supplies electricity to a total of a million people, including in Ramallah, Bethlehem and Jericho. It does not supply electricity to the Nablus, Hebron or Jenin area.

Also, off topic but it's a topic we've discussed before, if you don't know Hebrew have your husband translate it or something...worth a read:

http://article.yedioth.co.il/default.aspx?articleid=6992

Good, because Israel has no right to keep $400 million.

2/3 of the 730-million-shekel bill are due to that company which supplies electricity to East Jerusalem as well as some of the refugee camps on the periphery. Again, how do you expect the PA to enforce against water theft in East Jerusalem, or against a company in East Jerusalem that doesn't pay its bills, when they have no jurisdiction there ? The PA can't even send inspectors or civil officers or police into East Jerusalem.

Israel knows this, and has tacitly accepted the situation as the price of keeping any hint of PA control out of East Jerusalem, and has been deducting only the rest of the West Bank's electricity bills from the monthly tax revenue, which has been paid in full each month.

East Jerusalem, of course, is the center of the Palestinian economy, and the separation of the West Bank from East Jerusalem (as well as the separation of Gaza from both) is a large part of the overall Israeli strategy to cripple the Palestinian economy.

Anyway, as already posted, the withholding of the tax revenue is a punitive measure in wake of the PA's bid for UN statehood recognition, as Lieberman already bragged about when the decision was first announced. The new story about the money being withheld to pay back electric bills was created later, after mounting criticism from the EU.

Also - if you want me to read your links, please include a sentence or a quote from something it says as to why it is relevant to the discussion. Thanks

[OriZ 3,157]

Not true. I personally remember them saying that same day that they announced it that it's going to pay debts to the electric company. And again, it's not only the Arab neighborhoods of east Jerusalem that owe money to the east Jerusalem electric company, but also unpaid debts from the Ramallah, Bethlehem and Jericho areas, which Israel does not control.

I didn't post anything cause like I said it's in Hebrew...

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Not true. I personally remember them saying that same day that they announced it that it's going to pay debts to the electric company. And again, it's not only the Arab neighborhoods of east Jerusalem that owe money to the east Jerusalem electric company, but also unpaid debts from the Ramallah, Bethlehem and Jericho areas, which Israel does not control.

I didn't post anything cause like I said it's in Hebrew...

Can't you give a quick synopsis of the key points in English ?

Back to the withholding of funds:

From November 10, 2012:

Israel will withhold transferring tax revenues to the Palestinian Authority if President Mahmoud Abbas presses forward with a United Nations statehood bid, Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz warned on Saturday.

Stenitz said that Israel would not collect taxes on the Palestinians’ behalf, nor deliver the moneys to the PA, nor assist Ramallah in economic matters if the Palestinians insist on seeking nonmember observer state status at the UN.

Under the current economic agreements between Israel and the PA, Israel collects customs, border and some income taxes on behalf of the Palestinians and transfers the sums to Ramallah on a monthly basis.

The finance minister noted that the Palestinians backed down from a unilateral UN bid last year after Israel blocked the transfer of Palestinian tax funds to the PA.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/finance-minister-threatens-to-withhold-tax-revenues-if-palestinians-make-un-statehood-bid/

Do you see what's missing from this article ? Any mention of past-due electric bills.

Then, on Dec. 2, 2012:

JERUSALEM – Israel on Sunday roundly rejected the United Nations' endorsement of an independent state of Palestine, announcing it would withhold more than $100 million collected for the Palestinian government to pay debts to Israeli companies.

It was the second act of reprisal since the U.N. General Assembly voted overwhelmingly on Thursday to support the Palestinians' statehood initiative. The following day, Israel announced it would start drawing up plans to build thousands of settlement homes, including the first-ever residential developments on a sensitive piece of land near Jerusalem. Actual construction would be years away.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/12/02/israel-to-withhold-tax-transfer-to-palestinians-as-punishment-over-un-statehood/#ixzz2M0sahzXV

Note how the story has now changed with the first mention that money will be applied to Palestinian debts, but still refers to the move as punitive.

And on December 12, 2012:

Israel's foreign minister again specifically stated that the withholding of the tax revenues was a response to the statehood bid:

(Reuters) - Israel will withhold tax revenues from Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's administration until March at least in response to his statehood campaign at the United Nations, Israel's foreign minister said.

Under interim peace deals, Israel collects some $100 million a month in duties on behalf of the Palestinian Authority (PA) in the occupied West Bank -- money that is badly needed to pay public sector salaries.

"The Palestinians can forget about getting even one cent in the coming four months, and in four months' time we will decide how to proceed," Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman said in a speech on Tuesday night.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/12/us-palestinians-israel-funds-idUSBRE8BB09V20121212

Do the math. Israel has now withheld twice the $200 million amount that it claims the Palestinians owe - and it's been withholding money for going on 4 months now. I bet if I withheld your paycheck for 4 months, it might put some pressure on you, too.

So Israel has deliberately pushed the PA to the brink of bankruptcy - and as Lieberman publicly stated, it's to punish the PA for the statehood bid.

This is a calculated tactic that Israel has used on repeated occasions. Of course it knows very well that the PA, like all governments, depends on tax money to pay its bills including employee salaries. So Israel takes advantage of its power to collect Palestinian tax revenues - periodically shutting off Palestinians from their own money in order to punish the PA when it doesn't comply with Israel's dictates - in this case, daring to get recognition of the State of Palestine in the UN.

Israel knows very well this causes extreme economic hardship to the Palestinian population, in turn weakening the PA and in turn empowering Hamas. Do not for one moment think this is an unintended consequence - it's all on purpose and it's all by design, because it fits into the current Israeli strategy.

Edited February 26, 2013 by wife_of_mahmoud

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

So I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who lives in a village called Kafr al Deek. It's in the Nablus district of the West Bank. Agricultural lands belonging to the villagers began to be seized in the late 1970s/early 1980s, and an illegal Israeli settlement called Alei Zahav was established on this property in 1983.

Since then, additional land continues to be seized from the villagers for the purposes of expanding the settlement, building Israeli-only roads to link it to Israel and other settlements, and now creating a second satellite settlement called Leshem.

Last year, the Israeli army served my friend's family with papers again, informing them that yet another part of their olive groves was being confiscated.

Now, illegal settlers are moving in, and building homes. One of them came to speak with my friend last week. He mentioned that he was from New York City; he had moved his family to Israel a few years ago from the US. He said he'd paid 350,000 shekels for my friend's land, so he considered himself the owner now. None of this money went to my friend's family, of course - it was paid to Israeli real estate developers. They got control of the land from their friends in the Israeli government, after the Israeli army had been sent in to forcibly seize it from my friend's family (the owners of the land.)

Anyway, this settler wanted to tell my friend that he "wanted peace." And in the interests of peace, he offered my friend a job - painting the settler's new house, built on the stolen land that belonged to my friend's family.

Edited February 26, 2013 by wife_of_mahmoud

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I meant to add: Of course he said he will take the job. He's out of work, has not been paid for his last job with the PA, and badly needs the money.

[OriZ 3,157]

Once again, I personally remember it being mentioned many times, whether in written media or on TV or radio, just because the specific links you posted did not mention it, doesn't mean it was not known even before this last November...I remember hearing about it for years. They just never did anything about it, but once the recognition came, they saw it as a chance to punish and pay the debt at the same time, there's no contradiction there.

As for the sypnosis, it's an interview with 5 Israeli Arabs out of 2700 that already serve in national/civil service, 27 times more than a decade ago. They're expecting the number to jump to 3500 next year. They all say that there needs to be cooperation between Jews and Muslims and whoever wants to receive from the state needs to also give back, they all say their extreme politicians(such as Zoabi) do not represent them, that they are out of touch, that they belong to an old generation. That instead of trying to solve their problems and help them, their politicans only look for ways to create more problems and crises and compete among themselves who will be more extreme.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Once again, I personally remember it being mentioned many times, whether in written media or on TV or radio, just because the specific links you posted did not mention it, doesn't mean it was not known even before this last November...I remember hearing about it for years. They just never did anything about it, but once the recognition came, they saw it as a chance to punish and pay the debt at the same time, there's no contradiction there.

Your task is to show that "B" (the withholding of tax revenues) - resulted from "A" (a past due bill.) However, the statements from Israeli public officials dispute that - they specifically say that the withholding was a punitive measure because of the statehood bid. They say that some of the withheld money will be applied to a past due debt, but none of the them say the money was withheld because of the debt.

As for the sypnosis, it's an interview with 5 Israeli Arabs out of 2700 that already serve in national/civil service, 27 times more than a decade ago. They're expecting the number to jump to 3500 next year. They all say that there needs to be cooperation between Jews and Muslims and whoever wants to receive from the state needs to also give back, they all say their extreme politicians(such as Zoabi) do not represent them, that they are out of touch, that they belong to an old generation. That instead of trying to solve their problems and help them, their politicans only look for ways to create more problems and crises and compete among themselves who will be more extreme.

OK. But this thread doesn't really have anything to do with Palestinian Israelis. Anyway, Israel should have had an inclusive policy from the get-go, instead of trying to create an artificial ethnosuprem-ocracy by driving out as many Palestinians as it could, then placing the few who were left under marshal law for 2 decades, then excluding them from first-class citizenship, and meanwhile launching endless wars on the ones it turned into refugees. Big deal if 2700 out of 1.6 million serve; it should be a glaring alarm to you that things aren't as equal for "Israeli Arabs" as you'd like to believe - if they were, Israel's own politicians wouldn't be publicly displaying their racism by referring to 20% of Israel's population as a "demographic threat." Blaming the victims is really scraping the bottom of the hasbara barrel....

[OriZ 3,157]

I never said the money was witheld BECAUSE of the debt, I simply said that it wasn't true to say it was all THEIR money being some of it is debt owed.

The point of the article was that there is progress being made on both sides and that growing numbers of Israeli Arabs see it as their country - not just their land but their country - and want to not just have equal rights but also give back. I also know this from talking to many of them being I live in Haifa, I don't need articles for that.

So I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday who lives in a village called Kafr al Deek. It's in the Nablus district of the West Bank. Agricultural lands belonging to the villagers began to be seized in the late 1970s/early 1980s, and an illegal Israeli settlement called Alei Zahav was established on this property in 1983.

Since then, additional land continues to be seized from the villagers for the purposes of expanding the settlement, building Israeli-only roads to link it to Israel and other settlements, and now creating a second satellite settlement called Leshem.

Last year, the Israeli army served my friend's family with papers again, informing them that yet another part of their olive groves was being confiscated.

Now, illegal settlers are moving in, and building homes. One of them came to speak with my friend last week. He mentioned that he was from New York City; he had moved his family to Israel a few years ago from the US. He said he'd paid 350,000 shekels for my friend's land, so he considered himself the owner now. None of this money went to my friend's family, of course - it was paid to Israeli real estate developers. They got control of the land from their friends in the Israeli government, after the Israeli army had been sent in to forcibly seize it from my friend's family (the owners of the land.)

Anyway, this settler wanted to tell my friend that he "wanted peace." And in the interests of peace, he offered my friend a job - painting the settler's new house, built on the stolen land that belonged to my friend's family.

I also have some stories from my grandmother that I can share. Like the one where in one of the wars(I don't remember if it was the war of independence or the yom kippur war, I'd have to ask her) when the Arabs were certain they were going to send the Jews swimming, one of whom she considered as a friend until that point came into her house with her daughter and started taking measurements of rooms, saying things to each other such as 'this will be so and so's room', 'this we're going to throw away' etc...basically she was so certain they were going to win she was planning how to take over her friend's house.

Also, her husband at one time had a business which employed many people, among them some Arabs. He also considered them as friends. At one point when things broke out he was walking by and they didn't know he was listening and heard them talking about killing him. Needless to say they were fired on the spot. And no, this was not a 'disgruntled' worker case, they simply wanted to kill him because he was Jewish.

Also, even before that, before there was even a state, when events between Jews and Arabs would go on in Palestine, and my gram was a kid...the same kids she would go and play with on regular days - if something broke out would start throwing stones at her and her Jewish friends. Once things calmed down they all went back to playing together(kids being kids) but as soon as something happened again, they would get rocks thrown at them.

BTW, my gram's family came to Palestine not because they were big zionists, but because they had no other place to go to. Her mom was actually very rich while in Russia...until at some point the Russians came and confiscated everything they had, telling them to leave. So they came to Palestine and from being rich went to living in a tent having nothing. Even the little bit they did have kept getting stolen by their Arab neighbors. From the trauma her mom died in her early 40's after spending the last 10 years of her life not even recognizing her daughter. So not everyone that came to Palestine did it out of zionism. Some simply had no other choice after being chased out and persecuted for centuries. Is it any wonder they felt they needed to be tough in order to survive?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I never said the money was witheld BECAUSE of the debt, I simply said that it wasn't true to say it was all THEIR money being some of it is debt owed.

The point of the article was that there is progress being made on both sides and that growing numbers of Israeli Arabs see it as their country - not just their land but their country - and want to not just have equal rights but also give back. I also know this from talking to many of them being I live in Haifa, I don't need articles for that.

I also have some stories from my grandmother that I can share. Like the one where in one of the wars(I don't remember if it was the war of independence or the yom kippur war, I'd have to ask her) when the Arabs were certain they were going to send the Jews swimming, one of whom she considered as a friend until that point came into her house with her daughter and started taking measurements of rooms, saying things to each other such as 'this will be so and so's room', 'this we're going to throw away' etc...basically she was so certain they were going to win she was planning how to take over her friend's house.

Also, her husband at one time had a business which employed many people, among them some Arabs. He also considered them as friends. At one point when things broke out he was walking by and they didn't know he was listening and heard them talking about killing him. Needless to say they were fired on the spot. And no, this was not a 'disgruntled' worker case, they simply wanted to kill him because he was Jewish.

Also, even before that, before there was even a state, when events between Jews and Arabs would go on in Palestine, and my gram was a kid...the same kids she would go and play with on regular days - if something broke out would start throwing stones at her and her Jewish friends. Once things calmed down they all went back to playing together(kids being kids) but as soon as something happened again, they would get rocks thrown at them.

BTW, my gram's family came to Palestine not because they were big zionists, but because they had no other place to go to. Her mom was actually very rich while in Russia...until at some point the Russians came and confiscated everything they had, telling them to leave. So they came to Palestine and from being rich went to living in a tent having nothing. Even the little bit they did have kept getting stolen by their Arab neighbors. From the trauma her mom died in her early 40's after spending the last 10 years of her life not even recognizing her daughter. So not everyone that came to Palestine did it out of zionism. Some simply had no other choice after being chased out and persecuted for centuries. Is it any wonder they felt they needed to be tough in order to survive?

...

What does any of that story have to do with Israel using its army in this day and age to forcibly and illegally confiscate private property outside the territory of Israel in order to colonize it with illegal settlers from Israel ?