Supply Side? Romney tells us it's a fraud

[mawilson 2,133]

What people do understand, however, is that a proposal to cut tax rates to the effect of $5 trillion dollars over the next decade which is to be offset by eliminating deductions and tax credits that leave them with no tax liability today means that they will end up paying income taxes - i.e. that their taxes will go up in order for taxes on the upper end of the income scale to come down.

You give people too much credit.

[Teddy B 17,251]

What people do understand, however, is that a proposal to cut tax rates to the effect of $5 trillion dollars over the next decade which is to be offset by eliminating deductions and tax credits that leave them with no tax liability today means that they will end up paying income taxes - i.e. that their taxes will go up in order for taxes on the upper end of the income scale to come down.

They do, eh?

I agree with MaWilson, you're giving folks far too much credit, especially the 47% who pay little to no taxes. IQ usually goes hand in hand with income.

[웃 910]

They do, eh?

I agree with MaWilson, you're giving folks far too much credit, especially the 47% who pay little to no taxes. IQ usually goes hand in hand with income.

"the 47% who pay little to no taxes"

They make less than $30,000 a year. After you take away mortgage, utilities, gas, auto, clothes, health insurance, credit cards, student loans, and food. How much do you think is leftover?

They pay much more as a percent in state, excise, property taxes, and every single purchases than "the top 53%".

At the very high end (the top 1% of the bottom 47%), making a whopping $30,000 a year ($575 a week before taxes), they pay 10% of their weekly paycheck in "filling up their gas tank" tax.

Could you imagine Warren Buffet paying 10% of his weekly income just to fill up his tank?

Warren Buffet pays little to no taxes. Literally.

Edited September 20, 2012 by ☠

[mawilson 2,133]

"the 47% who pay little to no taxes"

They make less than $30,000 a year. After you take away mortgage, utilities, gas, auto, clothes, health insurance, credit cards, student loans, and food. How much do you think is leftover?

What's your point?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

They do, eh?

I agree with MaWilson, you're giving folks far too much credit, especially the 47% who pay little to no taxes. IQ usually goes hand in hand with income.

I see. So the millions of people in the $50K - $100K income range that happen not to owe any federal income tax can't grasp that simple concept. Neither can the thousands of millionaires that don't pay income taxes or the hundreds of thousands that make between $100K and $500K and pay no income tax. Great.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Mr. Big Dog

[Teddy B 17,251]

I see. So the millions of people in the $50K - $100K income range that happen not to owe any federal income tax can't grasp that simple concept. Neither can the thousands of millionaires that don't pay income taxes or the hundreds of thousands that make between $100K and $500K and pay no income tax. Great.

How many people do you know that make any of the incomes you posted that don't owe ANY income taxes? I'd be willing to bet the number is a huge zero. You're blowing smoke.

You know as well as I do that the 47% we're talking about are of low income.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Teddy B

[mawilson 2,133]

How many people do you know that make any of the incomes you posted that don't owe ANY income taxes? I'd be willing to bet the number is a huge zero. You're blowing smoke.

You know as well as I do that the 47% we're talking about are of low income.

Indeed, and here's another fact for those who say "but they pay OTHER taxes!"

26.7% of tax units have zero or negative sum of income and payroll taxes

So 26.7% of Americans really pay NO federal taxes. Not income, not payroll. Nothing.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/numbers/displayatab.cfm?DocID=3055

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

How many people do you know that make any of the incomes you posted that don't owe ANY income taxes? I'd be willing to bet the number is a huge zero. You're blowing smoke.

Is that so? Or are you just unwilling to deal with reality?

In the $40K - $50K range, there were 4.2 million households that owed no federal income taxes. Over 3.5 million households in the $50K-$100K income group owed no federal income taxes in 2011. Almost half a million households making between $100K and $1M owed no federal income taxes and even seven thousand households making more than $1M owed nada.

So, we are talking about more than 8 million households that certainly do not fall into the "very poor" category that owe zero federal income taxes.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

26.7% of tax units have zero or negative sum of income and payroll taxes

So 26.7% of Americans really pay NO federal taxes. Not income, not payroll. Nothing.

Good thing that the federal government levies only two taxes - income and payroll.

[mawilson 2,133]

even seven thousand households making more than $1M owed nada.

If they had capital losses in prior years exceeding their capital gains this year, they can use them to offset their gains.

Just because someone made $1m this year, doesn't mean they are not underwater or in debt.

[mawilson 2,133]

Good thing that the federal government levies only two taxes - income and payroll.

What else do they levy?

The 18.4 cent gas tax? Or the $2 FCC charge on your cell phone bill?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If they had capital losses in prior years exceeding their capital gains this year, they can use them to offset their gains.

Just because someone made $1m this year, doesn't mean they are not underwater or in debt.

Exactly. And just because someone doesn't owe federal income taxes doesn't make them a government dependent victim. Yet that is precisely what Mitt Romney believes.

[웃 910]

What's your point?

The point is you are welcome to join the less than $30,000 a year crowd since obviously their QOL is so much better since they pay 0 federal income taxes.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What else do they levy?

The 18.4 cent gas tax? Or the $2 FCC charge on your cell phone bill?

And here I was told that all taxes that are levied end up being paid by the consumers. Is that not true anymore? Or is it just not true when talking about the actual tax burden of the poor?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

And here I was told that all taxes that are levied end up being paid by the consumers. Is that not true anymore? Or is it just not true when talking about the actual tax burden of the poor?

You are right. The poor are a tax burden.