Didn't receive original RFE, now run out of time

[Dagnammit 3]

Hiya, I've about this issue posted before in the AOS forum but now as events have unfolded my questions are more UK centric and was wondering if anyone here might have some insight or info for me.

I am from London and now live in NY, AOSing from a K-1 fiance visa. We got married last winter and sent away our AOS application in the spring, USCIS received it, got my work and travel authorization early this summer as well as notice that our case was forwarded to the CSC (which typically means quicker approval/no interview, according to what we'd heard) and have been waiting for the green card ever since. Signed up for email and text updates but only ever got the ones about them receiving the application way back when. Have read that it can take six months or more for the green card to come through, and besides, could work and travel, so have just been waiting patiently all this time until decided to check USCIS.gov on a whim on December 12 and saw they sent us an RFE on November 11! We have been at the same address all this time, and have never received an RFE in the mail or any text or email saying they sent one.

Called USCIS the next day (Dec 13) and spoke to a supervisor, and was told they would resend the RFE and it should arrive within 15 days. (It arrived January 10). Also made an INFOPASS appt for the soonest I could, which was Dec 28. At INFOPASS, they sent me to an office upstairs where I dealt with the first very helpful human in the flesh in this entire process. He looked at my paperwork and said that everything looked in order, and that he couldn't see what the RFE (that we still haven't received) is for, but that he did show that our case was moved to be adjucated on December 16. This would have been three days after I called on the 13th to say we hadn't received the RFE they mailed November 11. (According to people on the forum, this meant it had been sent for approval or interview.) He gave me a form email to send out to USCIS that says we still had not received the RFE from either date, and if they needed any further information from us to contact us. He seemed to think this meant that someone else looked at my case when they got the notice to re-send the RFE, that person decided the RFE might not matter, and that I'd receive my green card soon. So sent the form email, called them twice to make sure they'd marked down that I'd sent it, and went back to waiting.

Then got the RFE in the mail, FINALLY, last week, January 10. Almost a full month since we lodged the complaint that it hadn't arrived, and two months after they initially sent it. It says our response is due Feb 1. They are requesting court dispositions and arrest reports. I was arrested in 2004 for stealing cigarettes (while drunk, I was young and foolish, a one time thing, and paid for them after being arrested), given a caution, charges dropped, no court date. For the K-1 visa process I of course got my my police certificate and subject access form, which stated that no charges were pressed and a caution was given. My interviewer at the London Embassy asked about it briefly during my interview, and when I explained he said, "But it never happened again, right?" and I said this was correct and he breezed right through and that was that. I sent in the subject access form again (a copy, not the original) with our AOS package. I'm not sure why they're suddenly interested in this, but the papers they want 1) don't exist, as there was no court date, and 2) in the time it's taken them to finally get this bloody RFE to me, I don't have time to get anything from the MPS or PNC in London stating that no records exist due to no charges being pressed, etc, because their standard turn around time is 40 days from receipt. This is quite the pickle and I am beyond frustrated.

If I'd received this RFE back in November, when they claimed to have originally sent it, I'd still have a hell of a time trying to get the papers that the American government requires that I don't think the English government actually produces in such a situation. I imagine this is all because I sent a copy instead of an original, and some stickler saw it and decided to make things more complicated and asked for more details. But now I have two weeks, basically, and nothing useful can be done. I am so upset if someone decides to deny my AOS because of this, even if it means I can re-apply (and pay the fee again).

Have made another INFOPASS appointment for Thursday this week, but was wondering if anyone here had ever heard of a situation like this, or had any advice as to what we should send them by Feb 1? Would it help if I type out exactly what the RFE is asking for?

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

I sent in the subject access form again (a copy, not the original) with our AOS package. I'm not sure why they're suddenly interested in this,

Because you sent the subject access and brought it to their attention. It was not needed for AOS, but you waved an arrest in their face voluntarily. Only people already living in the US on another visa (like work)would send in about crimes committed in the US.

I imagine this is all because I sent a copy instead of an original, and some stickler saw it and decided to make things more complicated and asked for more details.

The original is in your K1 file from London turned in at POE and should now be matched up with you AOS file. Does it say the charges, and the details of how the case was handled? (I've not seen a subject access report to know what it would contain.)

Have made another INFOPASS appointment for Thursday this week, but was wondering if anyone here had ever heard of a situation like this, or had any advice as to what we should send them by Feb 1? Would it help if I type out exactly what the RFE is asking for?

Infopass is good. Yes the exact wording of the RFE would be useful.

Edited January 16, 2012 by Nich-Nick

[Dagnammit 3]

Because you sent the subject access and brought it to their attention. It was not needed for AOS, but you waved an arrest in their face voluntarily. Only people already living in the US on another visa (like work)would send in about crimes committed in the US.

Ah, #######. I don't remember the exact wording, but there was some question on the I-485 about past arrests, so we included the police certificate and subject access again. I thought this was the right thing to do.

The original is in your K1 file from London turned in at POE and should now be matched up with you AOS file. Does it say the charges, and the details of how the case was handled? (I've not seen a subject access report to know what it would contain.)

It's very brief, just the facts ma'am. Has the date, place and time, reason for arrest, my vital stats, and that a caution was given and charges were dropped. (At work right now with just the RFE, not the SA, so will look when I get home tonight and copy exactly what it says.)

Infopass is good. Yes the exact wording of the RFE would be useful.

RFE says:

"Please submit the information requested below.

COURT DISPOSITIONS: Department of Homeland Security records reflect that the applicant has been arrested and/or charged for at least one crime. As such, the applicant, must submit certified copies of the court records, identifying the complaint, disposition, and sentence for any and all arrests, even if the arrest has been expunged. Each final disposition should be obtained from the court where the hearing took place. The documentation must be original or certified copies. Certified copies must include a court seal stamp.

If a court action HAS NOT taken place by the arresting agency, the applicant must submit a certified letter from the arresting agency indicating the final disposition of the arrest.

If the court disposition is not available, the applicant must obtain a certified letter from the court stating that there is no record. The applicant may NOT submit a police clearance of a photocopy. The documentation must be original or certified copies. Certified copies must include a court seal stamp.

If the applicant was granted diversion, he/she must submit court records that identify the charge and whether he/she plead guilty to the charge, or admitted guilt, prior to diversion being granted. Records must also include the final disposition (dimissed or convicted) and the sentence. The documentation must be original or certified copies. Certified copies must include a court seal stamp.

To obtain the court disposition, the applicant will be required to provide the arresting agency case number in order to obtain the court case number. The applicant must provide the case number to the appropriate court clerk to obtain the final court disposition for each arrest.

If the applicant has any other arrests/charges, it is necessary that he/she follow the same instructions as described above and submit the required documentation.

ARREST REPORTS: In addition to the required final court dispositions, the applicant must submit the arrest report for each arrest indicated above. Arrest reports are prepared by the arresting officer and give a detailed narrative description of the activities that resulted in the arrest and charges. These can be obtained by contacting the police department that actually performed the arrest and indication the date of arrest and the name given to the arresting officer at the time of the arrest. If the arresting agency does not have the arrest report, the applicant must obtain a certification of non-existence on that arresting agency's letterhead."

I called the MPS last Friday and talked to someone who told me that the only thing they could send me was a subject access report, which I already have. I asked if it would help if I came in person to request further documentation and they told me not to bother, it wouldn't do any good. If I could even figure out what to ask for or if they'd give it to me, I'm sure I'd have to go through the channels that require me waiting 40 days for a response (which is standard when dealing with the MPS/info from the PNC we learned), and I don't have that time now. I am so frustrated and upset. I don't want to have my AOS denied because of this. And if it is, how do I go about rectifying it for when I reapply?

Edited January 16, 2012 by Dagnammit

[Dagnammit 3]

Because you sent the subject access and brought it to their attention. It was not needed for AOS, but you waved an arrest in their face voluntarily. Only people already living in the US on another visa (like work)would send in about crimes committed in the US.

Found it: part 3, section C of the I-485 asks "Have you EVER, in or outside the United States, been arrested, cited, charged, indicted, convicted, fined, or imprisoned for breaking or violating any law or ordinance, excluding traffic violations?"

Of course I checked yes, since I have been arrested, and also because I knew that my police certificate and subject access form were in my file. I included the SA again as an answer to any potential follow-up questions. This seemed like common sense. What should I have done instead?

Edited January 16, 2012 by Dagnammit

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

any advice as to what we should send them by Feb 1?

I'm just a VJ member with no legal background or expertise. But I would respond to the RFE in writing and send a copy of the RFE notice with it. Address the envelope with a notation on the outside "Response to RFE" to it gets routed properly. Send with delivery confirmation, Priority mail, etc. It may not be what they asked for, but you can at least respond prior to Feb 1 so they don't think you are ignoring it.

Write your letter so it is concise. Things I would include are--

• The arrest in question was {date],in the United Kingdom for stealing a pack of cigarettes worth $4.95 when you were ___ years old (if a teen.) (or ____ years ago if you were an adult) Don't mention drunkeness if it's not on the report.
  
• You were charged with [name of crime], paid for the cigarettes, and were released without further fine, going to court, or serving time in jail. A caution was put on your record.
  
• You provided the required documents available on the case to the consulate officer who interviewed you at the US Embassy in London, England for a K1 Fiance visa. After reading the report and discussing the incident, he concluded that you were not inadmissable to the United States.
  
• Because the case did not go before a judge, there are no [take some words from the RFE] documents that I can provide. Everything the United Kingdom has on file has been provided on the police report dated [date] and the Subject Access Report dated [date]. There are no further documents to provide for consideration.
  
• The only original documents are in the file which came from London and were turned over when you entered the United States. The USCIS should already have those originals in your A-file. You can get more originals of the same documents they have on file, but it will take 40 days according to the Association of Chief Police Officers in The United Kingdom.
  

Sum it up with-- I received this RFE notice for the first time on [date] with only with ___ days to respond. Please advise me if you would like for me to get more original copies of the documents you already have in my A-file and if I can be granted 60 days extension to get those from the United Kingdom. I have never been in trouble except for this one incident. Please inform me of anything I can do to keep a $5.00 theft in my past from separating me from my US citizen wife.

Include something at the end like "I certify under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States that the above is a true statement based on all information of which I have knowledge."

That's about all I have in the way of ideas. Take a copy of the response to your infopass appointment.

[Dagnammit 3]

I'm just a VJ member with no legal background or expertise. But I would respond to the RFE in writing and send a copy of the RFE notice with it. Address the envelope with a notation on the outside "Response to RFE" to it gets routed properly. Send with delivery confirmation, Priority mail, etc. It may not be what they asked for, but you can at least respond prior to Feb 1 so they don't think you are ignoring it.

Write your letter so it is concise. Things I would include are--

• The arrest in question was {date],in the United Kingdom for stealing a pack of cigarettes worth $4.95 when you were ___ years old (if a teen.) (or ____ years ago if you were an adult) Don't mention drunkeness if it's not on the report.
  
• You were charged with [name of crime], paid for the cigarettes, and were released without further fine, going to court, or serving time in jail. A caution was put on your record.
  
• You provided the required documents available on the case to the consulate officer who interviewed you at the US Embassy in London, England for a K1 Fiance visa. After reading the report and discussing the incident, he concluded that you were not inadmissable to the United States.
  
• Because the case did not go before a judge, there are no [take some words from the RFE] documents that I can provide. Everything the United Kingdom has on file has been provided on the police report dated [date] and the Subject Access Report dated [date]. There are no further documents to provide for consideration.
  
• The only original documents are in the file which came from London and were turned over when you entered the United States. The USCIS should already have those originals in your A-file. You can get more originals of the same documents they have on file, but it will take 40 days according to the Association of Chief Police Officers in The United Kingdom.
  

Sum it up with-- I received this RFE notice for the first time on [date] with only with ___ days to respond. Please advise me if you would like for me to get more original copies of the documents you already have in my A-file and if I can be granted 60 days extension to get those from the United Kingdom. I have never been in trouble except for this one incident. Please inform me of anything I can do to keep a $5.00 theft in my past from separating me from my US citizen wife.

Include something at the end like "I certify under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States that the above is a true statement based on all information of which I have knowledge."

That's about all I have in the way of ideas. Take a copy of the response to your infopass appointment.

Thank you so, so much for this. We are very panicky and scared and not being able to get any concrete advice from anyone has made it so much worse. I really appreciate your response and will do just this.

[Nich-Nick 3,354]

Thank you so, so much for this. We are very panicky and scared and not being able to get any concrete advice from anyone has made it so much worse. I really appreciate your response and will do just this.

Well I hope it either explains what you have is all there is or buys you some time. And I re-read the form and it does say ever committed a crime in or out of the US so I was wrong. You needed to report it.

I'm not very versed in crimes so wish somebody else from the UK that had something to explain on their police record would say what they included. Hey I just thought of somebody who's been active again in the naturalization forum. He's very smart and posted recently he was arrested when he was 9 years old or something like that. He did AOS easily so maybe ask him. His name is Darren and comes from Cambridge. Send him a private message. Here he is http://www.visajourney.com/forums/user/48120-darren-and-crissy/

[Dagnammit 3]

Well I hope it either explains what you have is all there is or buys you some time. And I re-read the form and it does say ever committed a crime in or out of the US so I was wrong. You needed to report it.

I'm not very versed in crimes so wish somebody else from the UK that had something to explain on their police record would say what they included. Hey I just thought of somebody who's been active again in the naturalization forum. He's very smart and posted recently he was arrested when he was 9 years old or something like that. He did AOS easily so maybe ask him. His name is Darren and comes from Cambridge. Send him a private message. Here he is http://www.visajourney.com/forums/user/48120-darren-and-crissy/

Thank you, I will write him now!

[Darren And Crissy 11]

Do you still have the original police report and Subject Access Report? I gave copies to the Embassy in London and sent notarized copies with my AOS.

It seems strange that they would be so interested - I think that they made a mistake by not understanding that a caution means that you don't go to court. I only had police certificate and subject access letter (which was just a letter from New Scotland Yard containing charge, court date and outcome). The information that they are asking for is normally required for naturalization, not AOS.

Did you request the arrest report with the Subject Access? If not, apply for it now (you will need it at some point).

Assuming you didn't omit any information that you considered to be "stepped down" such as getting into trouble as a juvenile you shouldn't have a problem.

Point out that you were cautioned and released which meant that you were not charged with the offence and did not go to court. Notarize any documents that you send and follow Nich/Nick's advice.

I am sure you will be fine, there is no way this crime would prevent AOS.

Good luck!

[Dagnammit 3]

Do you still have the original police report and Subject Access Report? I gave copies to the Embassy in London and sent notarized copies with my AOS.

It seems strange that they would be so interested - I think that they made a mistake by not understanding that a caution means that you don't go to court. I only had police certificate and subject access letter (which was just a letter from New Scotland Yard containing charge, court date and outcome). The information that they are asking for is normally required for naturalization, not AOS.

Did you request the arrest report with the Subject Access? If not, apply for it now (you will need it at some point).

Assuming you didn't omit any information that you considered to be "stepped down" such as getting into trouble as a juvenile you shouldn't have a problem.

Point out that you were cautioned and released which meant that you were not charged with the offence and did not go to court. Notarize any documents that you send and follow Nich/Nick's advice.

I am sure you will be fine, there is no way this crime would prevent AOS.

Good luck!

Thanks for your quick response, Darren. Have not applied for the arrest report, will look in to this immediately. We still have one original SA and police certificate, which we will send with the RFE response. No info omitted, this was my only crime -- it just gets more and more regretful as the years go on, unfortunately. If only I had foreseen falling in love with an American (among other things)! Will follow your and Nich-Nick's advice and cross our fingers this doesn't prevent us from AOS. Thank you both so much, will let you know how it goes.

Edited January 17, 2012 by Dagnammit

[Darren And Crissy 11]

I would send notarized copies, not the originals. I am lucky in always working somewhere with a public notary but if you don't just get good copies and find a public notary. Personally, I think (and hope) your green card will just turn up in the middle of all of this mess, keep checking the USCIS status as they don't always email you!

I am now going through naturalization and still waiting to see if I get an RFE for the arrest details and court records. I ordered them a few weeks ago so I have no idea what I will receive or whether they will turn up before my interview. I like you made one mistake (when I was 12). I was charged, pleaded guilty to causing about £20 of damage (which I paid back), I was not convicted .

[Dagnammit 3]

I would send notarized copies, not the originals. I am lucky in always working somewhere with a public notary but if you don't just get good copies and find a public notary. Personally, I think (and hope) your green card will just turn up in the middle of all of this mess, keep checking the USCIS status as they don't always email you!

I am now going through naturalization and still waiting to see if I get an RFE for the arrest details and court records. I ordered them a few weeks ago so I have no idea what I will receive or whether they will turn up before my interview. I like you made one mistake (when I was 12). I was charged, pleaded guilty to causing about £20 of damage (which I paid back), I was not convicted .

Ah, good call. Will ask the wife if she knows anything about getting something notarized here (NYC). I just checked Wikipedia (probably not most reliable source but) and it says in NY state, public notaries are "strictly forbidden to certify 'true copies' of documents."

Here's hoping your report arrives before your interview, and that you have smooth sailing the rest of your naturalization process.

[Darren And Crissy 11]

...in NY state, public notaries are "strictly forbidden to certify 'true copies' of documents."

it does say "However, a notary may sign a form of affidavit on a copy where the document's custodian him/herself signs and swears to the authenticity of the document (usually a government issued picture ID). This can suffice as a "notarized copy" in most instances"

Alternatively, Greenwich is not that far (all of my documents were notarized in CT).

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

You could always consider making an affidavit to accompany any true copy verifying the veracity of the copy; the affidavit could then be notarized. A notary in NYC would be able to take care of that for you.

[Darren And Crissy 11]

Here's hoping your report arrives before your interview, and that you have smooth sailing the rest of your naturalization process.

My Subject Access report arrived today, I asked for all arrest details but it contains no info that I didn't already have - just lots of useless reference numbers. I am hoping that it will be enough since I was only 12 at the time and that was a long long time ago!

Good luck!