What is the best 9mm auto pistol for HD?

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I'm pretty sure Mexico doesn't issue CC permits to US citizens. I could be wrong though.

Typical non answer. How did you get a CC permit in California? Did someone else decide it was OK for you to have one?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Typical non answer. How did you get a CC permit in California? Did someone else decide it was OK for you to have one?

In the Peoples Republic of California you have to have "just cause" to get a CCW. They don't have Americans there, they have "subjects". Here in Alaska they still treat legal Americans with respect in regards to the Constitution of the United States of America. I can pack any of my loaded hand guns with me out side my house ...store, gas station, etc...or just for a nice Sunday drive. Alaska is still part of the United States and treats it's citizens as thus.

Down below is the Peoples Republic of California's take on it...

http://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/legal/cag_opinion.html

The (1977) Attorney General's Opinion on Good Causes

OPINION NO. CR. 77/30 I.L. 'the issuing authority must determine whether the threat to the applicant (or other causal situation) is as real as the applicant asserts (e.g., is there a clear and present danger to the applicant, his spouse, his family or his employees)? Finally, if the danger is manifest, the authority should determine whether that danger cannot be significantly alleviated by alternative means of security and whether in fact can be lawfully mitigated by the applicant's obtaining a concealed weapon license.'

This decision was rendered By Attorney General Evelle J. Younger, August 23, 1977.

Edited January 23, 2012 by Why_Me

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Yes! You got it! That's how it works in California. Someone decides it's ok for you to have a CC permit, and then you get one! As someone who seems to be well-versed in the in's and out's of CC law, I'm surprised you had to ask.

Do you carry concealed in violation of the law? Or did you get a Caifornia permit?

[slim 1,533]

Internet stalkers are a good reason to have CCW!

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Internet stalkers are a good reason to have CCW!

Why would a single guy have stalkers? Women stalkers?

[visaveteran1 33]

I have free fire zones set up around my perimeter. If booby traps were legal I'd have those too. As is, all I have is obstacles to funnel them into my sectors of fire.

Even with castle doctrine you still have to believe you're in danger of death or serious bodily harm. The only thing castle doctrine does is remove your duty to flee. Just because somebody comes crawling in through your open window doesn't mean you have the right to kill them.

When you're running on adrenaline you resort to your most basic form of muscle memory and training. That's why so many of these mall ninjas, keyboard commandos and "I'd do it this way" folks have no idea what they're talking about.

There's a light switch on my weapon. I can point the light directly at anything that's possibly a threat and identify it as something intent on causing me death or serious bodily harm or something that's not a threat at all.

In the dark, it's hard to tell.

To take this a step further, anyone who's had the light pointed at them (especially a strobe) knows how disorienting it is to be on the opposite side of the switch. Those of you who don't want to give away your position should stand in a dark room sometime while someone points the lights in your eyes. If you've ever been involved in some law enforcement encounters, sometimes the cops will either wave the light around a little or they'll shine it at you, move it a little off, shine it back, etc. It's very easy to throw off someone's focus with a light.

As a matter of fact, my first line of defense is my 4-cell D MagLite. I feel reasonably comfortable going at it with any unarmed person while holding my maglite up in the air. I can shine in their eyes and if they need a smack, no worries. The mag is ready! Better than a baton because it has a light too. If a weapon comes out I can throw the light at them while I draw my pistol.

Ever been smacked with a 4-cell D MagLite? I think I'd rather have someone shoot at me!

While you're away? How is your M-500 going to help you then? What if you come back and they're holding it on you?

A shotgun doesn't spread all that much at normal indoor distances. It's better than a pistol, sure. But the strength of the shotgun comes mostly from it's multiple shot capability and ease of use. You still have to aim. Point at the doorway and empty is great, but now you have an empty club.

Also, as for "staying low" and "point and pull" anyone worth their salt is going to shoot through walls at the 3ft. level. Reason being is bullets go through walls just fine and 3ft. gets a groin/gut shot on anyone standing and torso/head on anyone kneeling. If you really want to get low.... get low! Really low. Crawl.

... it's not a .45.

This is interesting armchair expert talk.. Nothing wrong with that.

We were discussing night situations. How will I know the intentions of a night intruder? Ask? If I can confirm he's unarmed (doubtful) I'll try to hold him for police or chase him off. If I can't be certain he's unarmed, he's going down. I'm going to fear for my life and safety. Better tried by 12 then carried by 8. This home invasion deal also depends on the state you live in.

Muscle memory is a talking point. Reality is your fine motor skills disappear, you can get tunnel vision and you will feel fear, even if just a druggie robber. Your heart will race and you can easily miss even a large target from stressful breathing. That is a scary event and no one, save for cops and soldiers, will get enough constant training to operate like a Navy Seal.

I'm with you on lighted weapons or a small but power flashlight. I never suggested stumbling around in the dark. My 870 has a light. Just recently added that.

Edited January 23, 2012 by visaveteran1

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Internet stalkers are a good reason to have CCW!

Actually the lack of internet stalkers in Vermont is good reason not to have anyone else decide who can carry a gun. Must truly suck to live in a state where you have to ask permission from some political hack to have the means to defend your life. You cannot even go to a beauty parlor in CA without fear of getting killed by a stalker. No wonder California has such a crime problem. Un-armed victims!

Edited January 23, 2012 by Gary and Alla

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

This is interesting armchair expert talk.. Nothing wrong with that.

We were discussing night situations. How will I know the intentions of a night intruder? Ask? If I can confirm he's unarmed (doubtful) I'll try to hold him for police or chase him off. If I can't be certain he's unarmed, he's going down. I'm going to fear for my life and safety. Better tried by 12 then carried by 8. This home invasion deal also depends on the state you live in.

Muscle memory is a talking point. Reality is your fine motor skills disappear, you can get tunnel vision and you will feel fear, even if just a druggie robber. Your heart will race and you can easily miss even a large target from stressful breathing. That is a scary event and no one, save for cops and soldiers, will get enough constant training to operate like a Navy Seal.

I'm with you on lighted weapons or a small but power flashlight. I never suggested stumbling around in the dark. My 870 has a light. Just recently added that.

That has to be the quote of the year on here so far. I'm saving that one.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

That has to be the quote of the year on here so far. I'm saving that one.

Wait...carried by EIGHT! I thought it was 6. Never mind...RUB forum, I forgot.

[slim 1,533]

Why would a single guy have stalkers? Women stalkers?

No. Not women. Crazy (ex?)boyfriends.

Sometimes you click on a young lady's profile and the crazy ex/current/fiance/boyfriend/etc. has access to the same profile and sometimes that dude runs your IP address and/or gets into the girl's accounts to access contact info. Sometimes he emails, calls, shows up at your front door. Any dude crazy enough to get caught up in an international love triangle probably has a screw loose.

Anyone psycho enough to take it into the real world is probably emotional enough to do something rash. If someone like that showed up at my front door I'd hope my piece was ready. If I was out and about, I'd want to have my piece on me.

I'm not saying this happens all the time (or that it's ever happened) but it could happen.

This is interesting armchair expert talk.. Nothing wrong with that.

We were discussing night situations. How will I know the intentions of a night intruder? Ask? If I can confirm he's unarmed (doubtful) I'll try to hold him for police or chase him off. If I can't be certain he's unarmed, he's going down. I'm going to fear for my life and safety. Better tried by 12 then carried by 8. This home invasion deal also depends on the state you live in.

How do you even know it's a person?

Muscle memory is a talking point. Reality is your fine motor skills disappear, you can get tunnel vision and you will feel fear, even if just a druggie robber. Your heart will race and you can easily miss even a large target from stressful breathing. That is a scary event and no one, save for cops and soldiers, will get enough constant training to operate like a Navy Seal.

All those things happen but if you've practiced, you can overcome them. People are capable of doing some pretty incredible things when stressed.

I'm with you on lighted weapons or a small but power flashlight. I never suggested stumbling around in the dark. My 870 has a light. Just recently added that.

The other big reason you should flip on a light is they psychological advantage you gain over someone who's supposed to be keeping their identity a secret. When you flip that light on, people can see them.

Think about a farm out in the middle of nowhere. Doesn't the farmer usually have a big light on a pole or mounted on the barn? The simple fact of being in the light averts a ton of crime.

Wait...carried by EIGHT! I thought it was 6. Never mind...RUB forum, I forgot.

Our egos aren't the only thing that's big!

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

No. Not women. Crazy (ex?)boyfriends.

Sometimes you click on a young lady's profile and the crazy ex/current/fiance/boyfriend/etc. has access to the same profile and sometimes that dude runs your IP address and/or gets into the girl's accounts to access contact info. Sometimes he emails, calls, shows up at your front door. Any dude crazy enough to get caught up in an international love triangle probably has a screw loose.

They are less inclined to do so in states that allow anyone to carry concealed. Doesn;t happen here and we are MUCH closer to Canada. It is closer to Canada than to the county line!

[visaveteran1 33]

I'm pretty sure Mexico doesn't issue CC permits to US citizens. I could be wrong though.

Our Attorney General gives Mexicans guns...drug lords no less. Maybe you could sell some pot and get a full auto AK for yourself. No questions asked.

[visaveteran1 33]

Do you carry concealed in violation of the law? Or did you get a Caifornia permit?

No wife. No gun. Just bull.

[visaveteran1 33]

Ding ding ding ding ding! Give that man a beer! Yeah, when a deranged Canadian shows up on your doorstep with a hammer, they tend to be real understanding about your desire to carry.

You still spinning that yarn? Getting real old. P.T. Barnum would be proud though. Your imaginary wife had a imaginary stalker. Now the stalker had an imaginary hammer. What happens in the next installment?

[visaveteran1 33]

How do you even know it's a person?

All those things happen but if you've practiced, you can overcome them. People are capable of doing some pretty incredible things when stressed.

The other big reason you should flip on a light is they psychological advantage you gain over someone who's supposed to be keeping their identity a secret. When you flip that light on, people can see them.

Think about a farm out in the middle of nowhere. Doesn't the farmer usually have a big light on a pole or mounted on the barn? The simple fact of being in the light averts a ton of crime.

Our egos aren't the only thing that's big!

Martian? BigFoot? Monkey escaped from the zoo? If you want to dance around with "what if"...have fun. If somethings in my house that doesn't belong or I can't identify, it's going down. I'm going to err on my personal survival. The last thing to do with intrusion is delay by second guessing yourself or worry about what the sheriff will do if you shoot the neighbors dog.

Yes, stress does the fight/flight reptile brain thing...so what people do with that is unpredictable. Maybe win the CMO or maybe run like hell.

Outside lights and motion detection lights are good. Rational criminals might be deterred by lights...maybe. Desperate or crazy people could care less. They'rer coming in. Technology is good but not going to cure insanity.

Edited January 24, 2012 by visaveteran1