Getting married In Belarus

[visaveteran1 33]

I have this thought today, reflecting on Russian women after reading Why_Me's post. If I were a younger man, knowing what I know today, I'd NEVER marry a Russian woman. Why? Because, in my experience, they're all a bit difficult, if not out and out mean and crazy. Yet I can't deny they're still beautiful and sexy and erotically beguiling.

The solution to this milieu? Forget marriage. I'd just date the FSU ladies for awhile and move to the next one. Make a trip twice a year to one of the FSU countries for two weeks each and vacation as a blatant, unashamed sex tourist. Prearrange to meet a new lady each trip...or if I find a special one, see her for awhile until the disputes get too much or things get stale. The money you save not paying for one or more K-1 or CR-1 visas will help pay for your trips.

I'm saying, for me, these Russians make great dates and tour guides, but they're so-so house wives or outright difficult to live with. To make it worse, they bring over little Ivan and Natasha and further drive you mad. And just when you think it's reached a finish point, wifey wants to bring over old momma who still loves Stalin and can't speak a word of English.

There's a continuum scale of the difficult female nature...running from "sometimes difficult" to "mean as a snake." Russian women tend to cluster closer to "mean as a snake" in my 5-women sample of Russian ladies...so forgive my point of view on this matter. I can only judge these Russians from my real life experiences.

OK, I admit you have your exceptions like Gary and Alla. Either Gary hit the marriage lottery or he's the easiest going guy in the world...either way he's content.

Slim and Why_Me seem more like me...talking often of the imperfect side to these unique women...and lamenting the erotic opportunities that are just a plane ride away.

This is my thought today. YMMV.

[eekee 182]

I don't think one person's experience can be taken as evidence. I'd look and see why you ended up with women with such negative personality traits and unhealthy attitudes toward relationships in the first place. As the saying goes, water seeks its own level. Something about you attracts and is attracted to these kinds of women.

[visaveteran1 33]

I don't think one person's experience can be taken as evidence. I'd look and see why you ended up with women with such negative personality traits and unhealthy attitudes toward relationships in the first place. As the saying goes, water seeks its own level. Something about you attracts and is attracted to these kinds of women.

You're right...that's why you have to also listen closely to Slim and Why_Me. Now you have three anecdotal references. No, we're not all saying exactly the same thing, but there is quite a bit of overlap in our comments. Whereas some guys only sing the praises of FSU women, we speak to their shadow side. And we speak about our male urges and desires for other women, even if we don't act on it. A good wife knows how to draw your attention back to her. Lazy and uncaring wives don't.

The only real center of agreement I see about Russian women is their erotic qualities, sexy clothes and beauty. Other than that, you hear about their quirks, oddities, nuttiness, jealousy and righteous anger

Your hypothesis about me attracting or being attracted to certain women is difficult to accept given the randomness of meeting five different women overseas through web sites. I didn't meet these women in bars, parties or at a job. One was 39 and one was 51. Not seeing any patterns...except they're all Russian. I have issues that you might call PTSD-related and I'll own them. The impact on relationships is real but I've mastered dealing with it better over the last number of years. But, we usually never see our own shadows...and it takes two to Tango. I'm not faultless.

[eekee 182]

You're right...that's why you have to also listen closely to Slim and Why_Me. Now you have three anecdotal references. No, we're not all saying exactly the same thing, but there is quite a bit of overlap in our comments. Whereas some guys only sing the praises of FSU women, we speak to their shadow side. And we speak about our male urges and desires for other women, even if we don't act on it. A good wife knows how to draw your attention back to her. Lazy and uncaring wives don't.

The only real center of agreement I see about Russian women is their erotic qualities, sexy clothes and beauty. Other than that, you hear about their quirks, oddities, nuttiness, jealousy and righteous anger

Your hypothesis about me attracting or being attracted to certain women is difficult to accept given the randomness of meeting five different women overseas through web sites. I didn't meet these women in bars, parties or at a job. One was 39 and one was 51. Not seeing any patterns...except they're all Russian. I have issues that you might call PTSD-related and I'll own them. The impact on relationships is real but I've mastered dealing with it better over the last number of years. But, we usually never see our own shadows...and it takes two to Tango. I'm not faultless.

How you met them has no bearing. Maybe the language barrier makes red flags harder to spot... but more often than not people simply choose to ignore the flashing red light and concentrate on sex appeal or charisma or what have you. I don't think anyone deserves to be treated badly, but if you put up with it, you are complicit in your own unhappiness.

As far as Why_me and Slim go, I don't Kip would EVER stop fantasizing about twins in miniskirts or whatever. And for every example of unhappiness, there are guys like Gary and Baron and Brad who seem pretty darn happy and don't seem to have experience with the negative sides you describe. I also have plenty of female friends who aren't like that at all.

Bottom line, people make their own beds and can learn from their mistakes. Don't put up with less than you deserve and you'll get what you deserve. I think maybe some men are blinded by the beauty of RUB women because yeah, they know how to work it and might put up with ####### they wouldn't put up with from someone who comes in a less shiny package. Perhaps people should ask themselves, "Would I put up with this behavior if this chick was a six instead of a nine?"

I wish you luck.

[ONA 133]

I don't think one person's experience can be taken as evidence. I'd look and see why you ended up with women with such negative personality traits and unhealthy attitudes toward relationships in the first place. As the saying goes, water seeks its own level. Something about you attracts and is attracted to these kinds of women.

I've been thinking that for a while. And the more VV's posts I read the more confused I become... It's like his wife is pure evil, but if you think about that - we only hear one side. Maybe his wife is complaining about American men all over Russian forums...

No offense, VV, I just believe that if there is a conflict - both sides are to blame.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

When it comes to women I don't generalize too much. So for my take on RUB gals I'l put it like this. If you take a deck of playing cards and pull all but five cards from every suit but hearts, and then cut the deck you have a chance of cutting a heart more times than naught. So with that said...

RUB chicks (not all by a long shot) can seem more aloof...as in a cold fish now and then. A lot of them can never be wrong no matter what, they can't take losing and they can be a bit selfish at times (that's a global woman trait imo RE my ex wife).

On the flip side they usually look terrific, they are tigers in the sack as long as you don't play meek. By that I mean sometimes you have to be a complete arsehole and they seem to get turned on by it...and that can be weary at times for the fact a relationship with a RUB chick can seem like one big long chess match that can make the head hurt at times like a giant migraine.

Now the sense of humor part (or lack of). Either they don't get the joke (they have a dry sense of humor) or they don't give a sh*t and don't want to be interrupted from their stupid chick flick on the Oxygen channel. You can make a wise crack and they look at you with that look a cat gives...like your stupid or something...kind of like a fck you look.

There's more...a lot more, but that's all I can come up with for now off the top of my head.

[LvivLovers 39]

Add me to the list of those that lucked out. I'm extremely happy with my wife. But, I also don't get the feeling that she's the typical Ukrainian ...she's just unique. For example, she slept on the floor since about age 12 because of her interest in Eastern cultures (luckily she got used to sleeping in a bed again). Also, she was almost a nun...probably would have been, in fact, but the church refused her because she was an only child (thank God!). Take those two things into account and it's easy to see why she's pretty darn close to being a saint. I could go on and on about singing her virtues! lol

[visaveteran1 33]

How you met them has no bearing. Maybe the language barrier makes red flags harder to spot... but more often than not people simply choose to ignore the flashing red light and concentrate on sex appeal or charisma or what have you. I don't think anyone deserves to be treated badly, but if you put up with it, you are complicit in your own unhappiness.

As far as Why_me and Slim go, I don't Kip would EVER stop fantasizing about twins in miniskirts or whatever. And for every example of unhappiness, there are guys like Gary and Baron and Brad who seem pretty darn happy and don't seem to have experience with the negative sides you describe. I also have plenty of female friends who aren't like that at all.

Bottom line, people make their own beds and can learn from their mistakes. Don't put up with less than you deserve and you'll get what you deserve. I think maybe some men are blinded by the beauty of RUB women because yeah, they know how to work it and might put up with ####### they wouldn't put up with from someone who comes in a less shiny package. Perhaps people should ask themselves, "Would I put up with this behavior if this chick was a six instead of a nine?"

I wish you luck.

In my judgment, all love and sex relationships are experiments in the laboratory of life. Some experiments go on for years or decades; others are ended much sooner...maybe measured in weeks or months. Dating. Shacking-up. Marriage. Open marriage. Polyamory. Take your pick. They're all experiments. When we decide the experiment has shown poor results, we close down that experiment. Because of legal, emotional, financial and other consequences of a failed experiment, we're more unwilling to experiment but our urges push us again into the lab.

In keeping with the "experiment" metaphor...the results of experimenting with someone can be explosive or safe to varying degrees, but left on the lab shelf long enough, the substance in the vials and beakers will go sour or stale or lose their potency. Time to scrap the experiment and try another one...or get out of the lab for awhile. Maybe hang-up the lab coat all together.

So, your "rules to live by" comments are obviously coming from a younger and less experienced lab tech. You have a right to be in that place but trust me, you'll be talking differently when you progress to the mid-life lab. I think marriage is very difficult over a long period. Even making the best and wisest choice, it get's harder with time.

As for marrying Russians...it's Vegas gambling. American men who marry Russia women are big gamblers and risk-akers. After all, for many of us, our first impressions are from web site photos and profiles. Then emails and possibly the phone or Skype. Finally, we have a whirlwind vacation/courtship that might be only one week. Some of us maybe did two weeks or made one or two additional short visits. Does that sound like a careful vetting of someone's deeper character? In the USA, I dated my first wife for six months and lived with her for one year. Our marriage lasted 22 years...but it still became a failed experiment. How does a one week courtship sound to you? Will you see what you need to see to make a sound judgment of the person's true nature?

If I look to your rules, over 50% of the Americans are not following your advice...because that's the divorce rate...and it's worse in Russia. Are so many people lousy judges of character? Or does a human's true nature take awhile to come out into the light?

As altruistic and well-intended as your comments seem...they are naive and immature in my judgment. As the American Indians say, "Walk a mile in a man's shoes before judging him."

[baron555 934]

American men who marry Russia women are big gamblers and risk-akers. After all, for many of us, our first impressions are from web site photos and profiles. Then emails and possibly the phone or Skype. Finally, we have a whirlwind vacation/courtship that might be only one week. Some of us maybe did two weeks or made one or two additional short visits. Does that sound like a careful vetting of someone's deeper character? In the USA, I dated my first wife for six months and lived with her for one year. Our marriage lasted 22 years...but it still became a failed experiment. How does a one week courtship sound to you? Will you see what you need to see to make a sound judgment of the person's true nature?

Well, after celebrating our two year wedding anniversary on December 31st, yes we are still happily together and don't see any issues in front of us that will prevent it from continuing.

But to respond to VV's comments above, that describes us perfectly......the only comment I can add, for our case of course, is that our two weeks together in person wasn't the only opportunity to assess each others "true nature". We conducted daily and most times very intense communication prior to and especially after that meeting which allowed us to determine that true nature.

Also......she wasn't so dead set to come to the US and I had to "convince" her to try it out......not that our attraction to each other wasn't that strong, but that she had no real reason to leave the nice life she had carved out for herself and her son....actually many temptations were presented to try to prevent her from coming here......all of which we talked about. Many many times we both gave thought about ending the silliness....but our love for each other kept us moving forward.

What I can offer to VV and others who have done the same silliness or are contemplating the same......why did/is your fiance wanting to come to the US? My thoughts may be scattered a bit here but bear with me.....

I think back to my handful of prospects to whom I stated that we ought to plan to meet. Two were just not as enthused as I had hoped/expected so I didn't pursue them, one was very enthused but maybe a bit too much (I had an impression her plan was just to get out and also be able to give her son a nicer life.....not a bad idea actually), and another had all as state that she wanted to give her son a better life than what was in store for him and she would dedicate herself to being the best wife and mother for it (Something nagged at me for this because, maybe a mistake, I didn't want a subservient wife, I wanted a best friend first.) and then there was Alla, who was just the study of consistency and seriousness.....and who we both were vetting out with each other that we were the perfect match.

So to the others here......and no need to comment if this is too personal or revealing....

How was your communication around your "courtship" in person? Was the communication content intense or was it like talking to your girl/boy friend like you would if you were dating here in the US? And, if it was not, do you think the lack of this intenseness contributed to the surprises you later learned once you did get together?

Why did you fiance leave to live with you? Did they have aspirations to leave before you arrived on their scene?

Finally, most of us already know the answer for most of us, did you two purposefully seek each other out (meaning purposefully seeking a relationship) or did you just happen to meet and the rest is your history?

[slim 1,514]

My wife and I actually "courted" in person for about two months before we left Korea. For five years we stayed in touch via telephone, internet, etc., and when we met again (in Moscow) we picked up where we left off. A year later, she was here.

It was logical for her to be here since she wasn't doing much there and there weren't a lot of job prospects for me there either.

We met and the rest was history. No seeking, per se. It was a "normal" relationship.

[ONA 133]

We dated for 3 months, then spent 2 weeks in Russia, lived together for 2 months in the US, 2 more weeks in Russia, lived together in the US again - for 3 months this time, 2 more weeks in Russia - and then I came to the USA on a K-1 visa and we got married.

No, I was not willing to move to the States, I made my husband to wait for me for 3 years. In fact, it messed up all my plans.

No, we were not looking for a relationship - we met in the USA, when I was here on a J-1 visa. the rest is our history

[visaveteran1 33]

My wife and I actually "courted" in person for about two months before we left Korea. For five years we stayed in touch via telephone, internet, etc., and when we met again (in Moscow) we picked up where we left off. A year later, she was here.

It was logical for her to be here since she wasn't doing much there and there weren't a lot of job prospects for me there either.

We met and the rest was history. No seeking, per se. It was a "normal" relationship.

Uh...sometime we might want to discuss that 5-year "interim period." Normal? Unless you were in Sing-Sing, that's a long period of hanging loose. Nothing wrong with it, but I wouldn't call it normal.

Normal to me is two people meet, they date for some number of months to a few years, get engaged for up to one year, and finally get married. Then 2 to 8 years later they get divorced. The ex wife takes her ex husband to the cleaners, and lives long and prospers. The ex husband turns to drink, drugs and cheap women. This is the "new normal."

[visaveteran1 33]

We dated for 3 months, then spent 2 weeks in Russia, lived together for 2 months in the US, 2 more weeks in Russia, lived together in the US again - for 3 months this time, 2 more weeks in Russia - and then I came to the USA on a K-1 visa and we got married.

No, I was not willing to move to the States, I made my husband to wait for me for 3 years. In fact, it messed up all my plans.

No, we were not looking for a relationship - we met in the USA, when I was here on a J-1 visa. the rest is our history

Congratulations. You and your American husband didn't use HotRussianBabes.com to get married. And you had to be dragged over here kicking and screaming from the motherland. Does that put you up on higher ground? Maybe you used that J Visa to best advantage...or not. Who among us knows your real story? Somehow you ended up here just like my wife...only you came here first...usually it's vice versus. But I see your husband still did his pilgrimage to Russia like the rest of us.

No one knows intentions. We're are all just putting out our stories...abridged, edited, embellished, twisted and spray painted. But good for you that you can be so legitimate and clean and separate from us scoundrels and peasants.

I proudly own my station in this Russian MOB milieu...I'm a full-on fat, bald, horny, old guy who pathetically lusts after Russian women through the lowly mail order bride business. Too bad I can't put in "rich" to that list. Maybe that's why things went bad?

[ONA 133]

Does that put you up on higher ground?

No, it doesn't and I didn't say that it did.

Maybe you used that J Visa to best advantage...or not.

I already mentioned here before what I got this J-1 visa for... I always wanted to travel... I always wanted to go to Britain (to Manchester), than to Spain, I still do - I'm a huge soccer fan. getting a British visa is tough - you need to travel somewhere else for that, going to the USA was the easiest thing. then I met my husband and I kept coming here for the summer to see him, so it pretty much screwed my traveling plans Oh, well, hopefully, we'll be able to travel together in a couple of years.

But I see your husband still did his pilgrimage to Russia like the rest of us.

If he didn't, I wouldn't have come here again. He never had a problem with women here, so it meant a lot for me that he went all the way across the world for ME

No one knows intentions. We're are all just putting out our stories...abridged, edited, embellished, twisted and spray painted. But good for you that you can be so legitimate and clean and separate from us scoundrels and peasants.

I didn't say any of that, nor did I edit our story.

I proudly own my station in this Russian MOB milieu...I'm a full-on fat, bald, horny, old guy who pathetically lusts after Russian women through the lowly mail order bride business. Too bad I can't put in "rich" to that list. Maybe that's why things went bad?

My husband is a handsome, fit, 25-year-old guy. When we just started dating I had to fight over him with his American ex-girlfriend. OMG, she is hot.... To be honest, she is hotter than me. She did my hair for the wedding

My husband is not rich, but he is doing very good for his age. I'm definitely proud of him.

Being rich or not rich is not critical... What really counts is the certain personal qualities, that might make you more or less successful.

You complain a lot though, VV. Too much.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

It's obvious that having more time to spend with each other is a big plus. It gives each other a chance to test the waters. On the singles sites a lot of gals are just looking for greener pastures imo. My wife may be one of them, I don't think so but then again I don't have a crystal ball and I'm not a mind reader. Belarus isn't actually the most happening place these days.

I only spent a month (max. allowed time for an American to be in Belarus per calender year) with my wife in Belarus after meeting her on myspace 5 months prior to that, and we got engaged the first week I was there. I spent another month there after the first of the year and we got married, then I spent another month there the following year not long before she got her degree there and flew here. So all in all we didn't really have a lot of time to spend with each other (3 mos.) before she got here..although we did use google talk just about every night and sometimes for hours on end during the weekends. So far so good though seeing how she hasn't tried to poison me (yet).

I think if a guy was going to do it on a budget the best route would maybe be to skip the singles sites, safe up for a r/t ticket and rent a el cheapo apt. in somewhere like Ukraine in the summer where you don't have to fck with visa's and it's mini skirt season. Ukraine doesn't limit the time you spend there like Belarus does, and you can have more time to spend with whoever catches your eye. From there it's a matter of hitting the cafe's and grocery stores...both places are excellent pick up spots for your usual hot RUB chick. Subways, bus stations, and train stations are another hot spot.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Why_Me