The rest of the industrialized world has universal health care

[homesick_american 1]

more NHS horror stories...

They nearly killed my mother, because they left her in a ward when she was ill and did not do the simple thing of getting her hydrocortisone (even though she kept reminding them!) so she went into crises. We got a call at 4am saying she had gone into intensive care. It absolutly disgusted me, that woman has been through so much already and she is so strong, I don't know what I would do without her.

We had all these empty promises about how she was going to be looked after and it was all #######. As soon as she was out of ICU she was forgotten about again, eventually sent home when the extra steroids kicked in. I absolutly hate her consultant with a vengance - the most arrogant stupid man I ever met. During one consultation with a registrar he told her "You should just think yourself lucky you don't have cancer". Badly cared addissons disease has wrecked her life

They also bodged up my gran's hip replacement and told her after an X-ray she had cancer when she didn't.

I've found that the NHS is rubbish at treating chronic diseases. I'm sorry to hear about your mother; just chalk it up to more NHS incompetence, seems to be a running theme!

[Dr. Obvious 49]

I think one of the things I will miss about Germany is the health care. It is easily the best health care and insurance I have had in my life. However, it is literally on the verge of collapse, just like all the other social programs here. You can hear it creaking everyday as they slowly take away the benefits one by one and introduce co-pays, tuition, no pension increases.

When I talk about going back to the US, I sometimes feel like a rat fleeing a sinking ship. Not that the US is so great either. I have been seriously debating it and didn't want to go back originally, but I think we are just going to have to. Not for the health care, but for major problems with the inflexiblity of the labor market and higher education system here.

[homesick_american 1]

I think one of the things I will miss about Germany is the health care. It is easily the best health care and insurance I have had in my life. However, it is literally on the verge of collapse, just like all the other social programs here. You can hear it creaking everyday as they slowly take away the benefits one by one and introduce co-pays, tuition, no pension increases.

When I talk about going back to the US, I sometimes feel like a rat fleeing a sinking ship. Not that the US is so great either. I have been seriously debating it and didn't want to go back originally, but I think we are just going to have to. Not for the health care, but for major problems with the inflexiblity of the labor market and higher education system here.

We hear good things about German healthcare in the UK, but complaining and comparing their social services to those on the Continent seems to be a national sport here. I'm sure it isn't completely rosy!

I admit that the US is in a healthcare crisis. So are other western nations because we all have the same problems: aging populations, explosions in obesity and obesity-related health problems (like diabetes), increases in technology, sky-high medication costs, highly litigious societies, top-heavy healthcare management, and a relentless drive to privatize at the expense of efficiency.

I think these are the factors that will bring about a painful but necessary revolution in American healthcare, though I don't think the US will turn to European-style socialized medicine, since it will crumble in the face of these factors...especially as Europeans get ever fatter.

I don't know what's going to happen to US healthcare. It can't go on like this forever, but I think it will have to be pushed to an absolute crisis point before anyone will step in and do anything about it. As long as it can limp along, nothing will change. I predict the NHS will be slowly privatized and won't exist in 20 years.

[Reba 2]

more NHS horror stories...

They nearly killed my mother, because they left her in a ward when she was ill and did not do the simple thing of getting her hydrocortisone (even though she kept reminding them!) so she went into crises. We got a call at 4am saying she had gone into intensive care. It absolutly disgusted me, that woman has been through so much already and she is so strong, I don't know what I would do without her.

We had all these empty promises about how she was going to be looked after and it was all #######. As soon as she was out of ICU she was forgotten about again, eventually sent home when the extra steroids kicked in. I absolutly hate her consultant with a vengance - the most arrogant stupid man I ever met. During one consultation with a registrar he told her "You should just think yourself lucky you don't have cancer". Badly cared addissons disease has wrecked her life

They also bodged up my gran's hip replacement and told her after an X-ray she had cancer when she didn't.

its not a lot different than here in the US. Recently a co-worker was hospitalized and in ICU for several days. She's diabetic and her idiot doctor took her off her meds. All of them. Obviously, she went into shock, damn near a coma, and it took them a few days to get her levels back to where they should be.

A friend's Mother up in Canada had a hip replacement a couple of years ago. They used the wrong size. She's lopsided now.

[Dr. Obvious 49]

I think these are the factors that will bring about a painful but necessary revolution in American healthcare, though I don't think the US will turn to European-style socialized medicine, since it will crumble in the face of these factors...especially as Europeans get ever fatter.

I don't think it is so much because they are getting fatter, rather, it is because they are getting older and have bred no replacements. Here, around 20% of the population is over the age of 65. That is a staggering number that only grows with each passing year. Here in Witten, it is particularly easy to see. I have never seen so many elderly outside a nursing home. The fact is, old people contribute nothing to the system (built on the short-sighted assumption that the next generation would outbreed the first), but suck it dry like a leech. It just can't go on like this.

Here watching politicians doing things like raising the retirement age to 67, it is like putting a band-aid on a stab to your femoral artery. I imagine it will be only a shell of its former self in the coming years until the population pyramid has corrected itself again.

[homesick_american 1]

I think these are the factors that will bring about a painful but necessary revolution in American healthcare, though I don't think the US will turn to European-style socialized medicine, since it will crumble in the face of these factors...especially as Europeans get ever fatter.

I don't think it is so much because they are getting fatter, rather, it is because they are getting older and have bred no replacements. Here, around 20% of the population is over the age of 65. That is a staggering number that only grows with each passing year. Here in Witten, it is particularly easy to see. I have never seen so many elderly outside a nursing home. The fact is, old people contribute nothing to the system (built on the short-sighted assumption that the next generation would outbreed the first), but suck it dry like a leech. It just can't go on like this.

Here watching politicians doing things like raising the retirement age to 67, it is like putting a band-aid on a stab to your femoral artery. I imagine it will be only a shell of its former self in the coming years until the population pyramid has corrected itself again.

Germany could try to even out its numbers with immigration, but of course there would have to be jobs for these immigrants to work so that they could pay taxes into the system...enough taxes to offset what they take out. It's a tall order.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

I think these are the factors that will bring about a painful but necessary revolution in American healthcare, though I don't think the US will turn to European-style socialized medicine, since it will crumble in the face of these factors...especially as Europeans get ever fatter.

I don't think it is so much because they are getting fatter, rather, it is because they are getting older and have bred no replacements. Here, around 20% of the population is over the age of 65. That is a staggering number that only grows with each passing year. Here in Witten, it is particularly easy to see. I have never seen so many elderly outside a nursing home. The fact is, old people contribute nothing to the system (built on the short-sighted assumption that the next generation would outbreed the first), but suck it dry like a leech. It just can't go on like this.

Here watching politicians doing things like raising the retirement age to 67, it is like putting a band-aid on a stab to your femoral artery. I imagine it will be only a shell of its former self in the coming years until the population pyramid has corrected itself again.

Germany could try to even out its numbers with immigration, but of course there would have to be jobs for these immigrants to work so that they could pay taxes into the system...enough taxes to offset what they take out. It's a tall order.

Sorry to butt into your convo, but what Germany really needs to do is to stop whining. Despite all the rumors that the health and social system is about to collapse, it is interesting that insurance companies particularly in the health sector are still making profits despite the fact that they are not supposed to. As to the retirement money being gone, the reason is that previous governments spend it all on such fun things as Euro-Fighters and LeopardII-tanks and the like. Yet, noone claims responbility and politicians keep claiming its due to the fact that there are too many old people (which of course could not be planned or expected). The whole thing is a typical case of neoliberalism in action worsened by the burden of reunification (adding an extraa 17 Mio people who haven't paid a cent into a social system would throw off any country, especially since it followed a similar scheme, act today, find out about the problems later). Now 15 years later Germans are still whining but completely forget that there's actually nothing to be upset about other than the fact that politicians are announcing the immediate collapse of any social services without a reason. Sorry about the rant, but if there's one thing that makes me even angrier than the bad social and health system in the US, it's the whiny attitude of Germany and the projected problems is faces due to severe policy failures in the past.

[homesick_american 1]

I think these are the factors that will bring about a painful but necessary revolution in American healthcare, though I don't think the US will turn to European-style socialized medicine, since it will crumble in the face of these factors...especially as Europeans get ever fatter.

I don't think it is so much because they are getting fatter, rather, it is because they are getting older and have bred no replacements. Here, around 20% of the population is over the age of 65. That is a staggering number that only grows with each passing year. Here in Witten, it is particularly easy to see. I have never seen so many elderly outside a nursing home. The fact is, old people contribute nothing to the system (built on the short-sighted assumption that the next generation would outbreed the first), but suck it dry like a leech. It just can't go on like this.

Here watching politicians doing things like raising the retirement age to 67, it is like putting a band-aid on a stab to your femoral artery. I imagine it will be only a shell of its former self in the coming years until the population pyramid has corrected itself again.

Germany could try to even out its numbers with immigration, but of course there would have to be jobs for these immigrants to work so that they could pay taxes into the system...enough taxes to offset what they take out. It's a tall order.

Sorry to butt into your convo, but what Germany really needs to do is to stop whining. Despite all the rumors that the health and social system is about to collapse, it is interesting that insurance companies particularly in the health sector are still making profits despite the fact that they are not supposed to. As to the retirement money being gone, the reason is that previous governments spend it all on such fun things as Euro-Fighters and LeopardII-tanks and the like. Yet, noone claims responbility and politicians keep claiming its due to the fact that there are too many old people (which of course could not be planned or expected). The whole thing is a typical case of neoliberalism in action worsened by the burden of reunification (adding an extraa 17 Mio people who haven't paid a cent into a social system would throw off any country, especially since it followed a similar scheme, act today, find out about the problems later). Now 15 years later Germans are still whining but completely forget that there's actually nothing to be upset about other than the fact that politicians are announcing the immediate collapse of any social services without a reason. Sorry about the rant, but if there's one thing that makes me even angrier than the bad social and health system in the US, it's the whiny attitude of Germany and the projected problems is faces due to severe policy failures in the past.

That was educational. Yeah, Germany does seem to have gone off the rails a bit. It was a powerhouse in the 1980s, but then things starting going wrong.

[Fischkoepfin 1]

I think these are the factors that will bring about a painful but necessary revolution in American healthcare, though I don't think the US will turn to European-style socialized medicine, since it will crumble in the face of these factors...especially as Europeans get ever fatter.

I don't think it is so much because they are getting fatter, rather, it is because they are getting older and have bred no replacements. Here, around 20% of the population is over the age of 65. That is a staggering number that only grows with each passing year. Here in Witten, it is particularly easy to see. I have never seen so many elderly outside a nursing home. The fact is, old people contribute nothing to the system (built on the short-sighted assumption that the next generation would outbreed the first), but suck it dry like a leech. It just can't go on like this.

Here watching politicians doing things like raising the retirement age to 67, it is like putting a band-aid on a stab to your femoral artery. I imagine it will be only a shell of its former self in the coming years until the population pyramid has corrected itself again.

Germany could try to even out its numbers with immigration, but of course there would have to be jobs for these immigrants to work so that they could pay taxes into the system...enough taxes to offset what they take out. It's a tall order.

Sorry to butt into your convo, but what Germany really needs to do is to stop whining. Despite all the rumors that the health and social system is about to collapse, it is interesting that insurance companies particularly in the health sector are still making profits despite the fact that they are not supposed to. As to the retirement money being gone, the reason is that previous governments spend it all on such fun things as Euro-Fighters and LeopardII-tanks and the like. Yet, noone claims responbility and politicians keep claiming its due to the fact that there are too many old people (which of course could not be planned or expected). The whole thing is a typical case of neoliberalism in action worsened by the burden of reunification (adding an extraa 17 Mio people who haven't paid a cent into a social system would throw off any country, especially since it followed a similar scheme, act today, find out about the problems later). Now 15 years later Germans are still whining but completely forget that there's actually nothing to be upset about other than the fact that politicians are announcing the immediate collapse of any social services without a reason. Sorry about the rant, but if there's one thing that makes me even angrier than the bad social and health system in the US, it's the whiny attitude of Germany and the projected problems is faces due to severe policy failures in the past.

That was educational. Yeah, Germany does seem to have gone off the rails a bit. It was a powerhouse in the 1980s, but then things starting going wrong.

Yup, it's sad, I know. But the downfall started in the late seventies when the then government failed to act on the demographic forecasts, and it got even worse under the incredibly inactive government of the 1980s and 90s that managed to finally move to reform the social system the year before it was kicked out of office in 1998. Prime example of chances lost and a country moved into universal depression.

[homesick_american 1]

Yup, it's sad, I know. But the downfall started in the late seventies when the then government failed to act on the demographic forecasts, and it got even worse under the incredibly inactive government of the 1980s and 90s that managed to finally move to reform the social system the year before it was kicked out of office in 1998. Prime example of chances lost and a country moved into universal depression.

I'm sure absorbing the third world country formerly known as the GDR didn't help matters either.

[Ban Hammer 12,836]

Yup, it's sad, I know. But the downfall started in the late seventies when the then government failed to act on the demographic forecasts, and it got even worse under the incredibly inactive government of the 1980s and 90s that managed to finally move to reform the social system the year before it was kicked out of office in 1998. Prime example of chances lost and a country moved into universal depression.

I'm sure absorbing the third world country formerly known as the GDR didn't help matters either.

many in west germany want to rebuild that wall

[Fischkoepfin 1]

Yup, it's sad, I know. But the downfall started in the late seventies when the then government failed to act on the demographic forecasts, and it got even worse under the incredibly inactive government of the 1980s and 90s that managed to finally move to reform the social system the year before it was kicked out of office in 1998. Prime example of chances lost and a country moved into universal depression.

I'm sure absorbing the third world country formerly known as the GDR didn't help matters either.

No that didn't help, but the problem was that the GDR was treated as a third-world country rather than an eastern-bloc industrial power-house. Hence the infrastructure was dismantled, leaving millions of people unemployed. It's a sad, sad case...

[Dr. Obvious 49]

What do you mean 'without a reason'? No one is saying the sky will fall tomorrow, but the way Germany has grown accustomed to living certainally isn't going to last forever. Hartz 4, introduction of tution at universities (about 700€ a semester now), the in-progress health care reform. For whatever reason, it is changing for the worse. I am not even German, but I can see that there is something to grumble about. Still better than what you can find in the US, but the ball is still rolling further in that direction regardless. I can understand that that is disconserting.

So Germans should shut up and do what now? Everything the government has done only appears to make things worse. Witness Hartz 4 and the creation of the extremely exploitable 1€ and 400€ jobs. Private consulting firm?

Edited September 26, 2006 by Wacken

[Fischkoepfin 1]

What do you mean 'without a reason'? No one is saying the sky will fall tomorrow, but the way Germany has grown accustomed to living certainally isn't going to last forever. Hartz 4, introduction of tution at universities (about 700€ a semester now), the in-progress health care reform. For whatever reason, it is changing for the worse. I am not even German, but I can see that there is something to grumble about. Still better than what you can find in the US, but the ball is still rolling further in that direction regardless. I can understand that that is disconserting.

So Germans should shut up and do what now? Everything the government has done only appears to make things worse. Witness Hartz 4 and the creation of the extremely exploitable 1€ and 400€ jobs. Private consulting firm?

Germans should remember the fact that the only reason they had it so well is because of a communal commitment to the economy after the war. Getting back to a functioning economy required sacrifices from everyone not just the unemployed or the elderly. Now, however, rather than saying ok, it's bad, let's figure this out together, responsibilities get pushed to everyone but oneself. Of course, there is something to grumble about, but the German depression (and I mean this in a psychological sense) is not the way to go. Taking the streets (as actually happened this spring for the first time in years) is already a step in the right direction, but whatever happened to people standing up for their rights.

I am German, and I've seen my fair share of the whining and things are actually not much worse than 10 years ago (actually they are slightly better). Yet, Germany whines on and wallows in self-pity, rather than remembering that it was communal rather than individual sacrifice that got them to where they used to be in the first place.

[mawilson 2,133]

If you can afford good medical care, the quality in the US is stellar.

Afford? If a doctor cares to see you. I remember quite well how almost impossible it was to find an OB/GYN that was going to care for my wife for the last trimester of her pregnancy after we moved from one state to another when she was about 6 months along. Health insurance wasn't an issue. Most doc's just happened to make it a rule that they don't take pregnant women as new patients if they're past week 12. Stellar care my patoot.

*shrug* You'd have the same problem here.

In a public health care system? They'd refuse to provide care based on risk? I doubt it.

No, but try to find an NHS doctor in London accepting new patients. Pregnant or no pregnant, it's not easy.