Do you want the United States to default?

[mawilson 2,133]

Not quite. If I take money out of that Christmas account and pay it back to that Christmas account with interest - more than what it gets sitting there but less than what it would cost me to borrow that amount from another lender - then the only way the kids would complain about no presents on Christmas would be if I was a deadbeat tea partier. If I am not one of those - and I'm not - then the money in the Christmas account has been paid back - with interest - and there are actually more presents than there would have been otherwise. Meanwhile, I also saved some money since I borrowed at a lower rate. It's a win-win. Well, as long as I don't become a deadbeat tea partier.

Nonsense is what it is. You're spending your savings and calling it an "investment" in yourself. Very clever.

[웃 910]

Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But then I repeat myself. - Mark Twain

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. - Winston Churchill

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul. - George Bernard Shaw

A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man....which debt he proposes to pay off with your money. - G. Gordon Liddy

Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. - James Bovard, Civil Libertarian (1994)

Foreign aid might be defined as a transfer of money from poor people in rich countries to rich people in poor countries. - Douglas Casey, Classmate of Bill Clinton at Georgetown Univ.

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys. - P.J. O'Rourke, Civil Libertarian

Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Frederic Bastiat, French Economist (1801-1850)

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it. - Ronald Reagan (1986)

I don't make jokes. I just watch the government and report the facts. - Will Rogers

If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's 'free!' - P.J. O'Rourke

In general, the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one party of the citizens to give to the other. - Voltaire (1764)

Just because you do not take an interest in politics doesn't mean politics won't take an interest in you! - Pericles (430 B.C.)

No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session. - Mark Twain (1866)

Talk is cheap...except when Congress does it. - Unknown

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings.

The inherent blessing of socialism is the equal sharing of misery. - Winston Churchill

The only difference between a tax man and a taxidermist is that the taxidermist leaves the skin. - Mark Twain

The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools. - Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)

There is no distinctly native American criminal class...save Congress. - Mark Twain

What this country needs are more unemployed politicians. - Edward Langley, Artist (1928 - 1995)

A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. - Thomas Jefferson

"Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. if no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else?" - Ronald Reagan, First Inaugural Address, 1/20/1981

Only 2 types of people are Republicans:

millionaires or morons

!!!!

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Nonsense is what it is. You're spending your savings and calling it an "investment" in yourself. Very clever.

I've been through this many times. I use cash in savings accounts to pay for investments I have to make or that I feel are beneficial for me to make. I don't incur financing cost other than the loss of the long balance rate of interest from my savings account which is certainly below the interest rate I'd pay if I was to take out a loan from another lender. I pay the "loan" back to my savings account and reap the benefits of the investment I made with that "loan" which may allow me to save more money down the road. There's really nothing nonsensical about it. Now, if I use my savings to buy groceries then that's another issue.

[mawilson 2,133]

Now, if I use my savings to buy groceries then that's another issue.

Or lump it in with your employment income and spend it, which is what happened to Social Security.

They didn't "invest" it in anything worthwhile.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

They didn't "invest" it in anything worthwhile.

I know, they just gave it away in tax breaks that didn't do a first bit of good.

[dalegg 143]

I know, they just gave it away in tax breaks that didn't do a first bit of good.

I don't know how you can say that. Part of the Stimulus was the "The American Opportunity Tax Credit". I am actually going to be taking advantage of this with both my kids and my wife, to the point where I might actually be looking at the largest tax refund next year I have ever received.

I don't save money, I spend it. So I will be adding all of that money back into the economy.

But the most incredible thing is my daughter is almost going to go through Cosmetology School- for Free! Then she will have a job and become a consumer too.

[웃 910]

I don't save money, I spend it.

:dance:

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I don't know how you can say that. Part of the Stimulus was the "The American Opportunity Tax Credit". I am actually going to be taking advantage of this with both my kids and my wife, to the point where I might actually be looking at the largest tax refund next year I have ever received.

I don't save money, I spend it. So I will be adding all of that money back into the economy.

But the most incredible thing is my daughter is almost going to go through Cosmetology School- for Free! Then she will have a job and become a consumer too.

That's a targeted tax credit which is designed to do precisely what you say it does - have people spend their money part or all of which they will receive back for certain activity. Are you suggesting that it works? It can't be. Remember, the stimulus was all bad. For those living in the real world, these types of incentives are designed to jump-start economic activity - i.e. spending. If you target those where they have long term benefits (education, energy efficiency, etc.) - all the better.

These were not the tax breaks I was referring to, however. These were tiny sums - some $350BN or so total. Comparatively speaking.

[dalegg 143]

That's a targeted tax credit which is designed to do precisely what you say it does - have people spend their money part or all of which they will receive back for certain activity. Are you suggesting that it works? It can't be. Remember, the stimulus was all bad. For those living in the real world, these types of incentives are designed to jump-start economic activity - i.e. spending. If you target those where they have long term benefits (education, energy efficiency, etc.) - all the better.

These were not the tax breaks I was referring to, however. These were tiny sums - some $350BN or so total. Comparatively speaking.

But on the other side of the coin, it will take some time for the Government to recoup the taxes they let go on me. I believe we are in quite a pickle right now. We have to decide which is the bigger problem- the economy or the deficit. Personally I think the deficit is the bigger problem and sooner or later we have to take our medicine- even if that means raising taxes. The good times are over.

[scandal 951]

These were tiny sums - some $350BN or so total. Comparatively speaking.

$350B is a tiny sum? Wowzers. Even in Washington I don't think that counts as a 'tiny sum'.

[scandal 951]

But on the other side of the coin, it will take some time for the Government to recoup the taxes they let go on me. I believe we are in quite a pickle right now. We have to decide which is the bigger problem- the economy or the deficit. Personally I think the deficit is the bigger problem and sooner or later we have to take our medicine- even if that means raising taxes. The good times are over.

The deficit is the bigger problem structurally over the next decade or so.

The current economic conditions - anemic 1-2% GDP growth, stubborn 9%+ unemployment, is the more serious immediate problem.

And the two are linked. Because all of these 10 year plans - Boehner, Reid, Obama, McConnell,whomever - are all based on CBO estimates that factor in 3%+ growth per year. If we don't start getting back to that more normal growth rate, none of these plans are going to get to their targets of $900B, $2.5T, $4T, whatever.

For that reason none of the plans that have advocated additional revenue/taxes kick in right away. All recognize the need for whatever stimulus coaxing we can do over the next year or so to get growth moving again before kicking in new taxes.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But on the other side of the coin, it will take some time for the Government to recoup the taxes they let go on me. I believe we are in quite a pickle right now. We have to decide which is the bigger problem- the economy or the deficit. Personally I think the deficit is the bigger problem and sooner or later we have to take our medicine- even if that means raising taxes. The good times are over.

Well, the bigger problem we have is a sputtering economy. You can, of course, draw back more demand from that sputtering economy by cutting back on government spending but you cannot reasonably expect the economy to grow as a result of that. As the economy goes from sputtering back into recession - which it no doubt would if you withdrew some 5% - 10% on the demand side, your deficits are going to continue to grow even though government spending has been reduced. Take a look at Ireland. They've tried it. Ain't working.

$350B is a tiny sum? Wowzers. Even in Washington I don't think that counts as a 'tiny sum'.

It's not even 10% of the tax cuts I referring to that haven't done jack shite for jobs and growth. So yes, comparatively speaking, it's small.

[웃 910]

I could easily cut a half a trillion dollars (and we'd still have the largest military budget)....

The world's top 5 largest military budgets in graph. 2010

Edited July 30, 2011 by Lord Infamous

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I could easily cut a half a trillion dollars (and we'd still have the largest military budget)....

The world's top 5 largest military budgets in graph. 2010

That's the odd part, isn't it? They struggle over $2.5TN in budget cuts. You can easily get all of that - 100% of that - out of the defense budget and still see the US spend more than Europe, China and Russia combined. Where's the proposal to do just that?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]