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i-864 AOS household income = SSA to minor children

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Sweden
Timeline

Any ideas on how/where to report household income based on minor children SSA recipients?

Otherwise we are without any income for the past 3 years since 1st husband died.

With 5 minor children receiving Social Security Survivor Benefits, our household (and I as the Trustee) meet the 125% poverty guideline for a family of 7. I am filling out the i-864 and have no place to put the SSA income. I cannot use the i-864A forms because the children are all under 18.

Does it make sense to just report it as my "Employment" as Trustee and attach all of the SSA-1099 and benefits letters that verify that I am the Trustee?

I am reporting assets as a backup, but I would like to have them look at SSA income as just say "got it!"


IR-1/CR-1 Spouse CA Svc Ctr 2011 (82 days) Apr07: NOA1. Jun27: NOA2 text.
Delivery from USCIS to NVC (24 days) Jul21: CSC mailed it to NVC

NVC (43 days)
Jul25: "in the NVC bldg"---->Jul26: NVC Case#,IIN# (1 day in-house, 29 days since NOA2)

AOS i-864.....Jul28: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug01: "paid"/mailed (4 days). Aug3: AOS in the bldg
Aug 11: phone rep "AOS RFE: 23/24a: no blanks" (pdf won't print n/a"). Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 12)
Aug 22: AOS approved

IV ds-230:
Jul26: send DS-3032 ----> Jul29: DS-3032 accepted (3 days)
Aug01: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug02: "paid"/mailed (1 day)
Aug04:ds-230 delivered ---> Aug 12: "under review"
Aug 15: phone rep "RFE:ds-230 #30." (16th bdate left as "----") Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 16)
Aug 30: phone rep: "no military record." me: "it's there!" rep: "15 biz days starting today"
Sep 06: phone rep: "needs review. 15 MORE biz days" me: "no way" Supervisor asks Mgr "open file & verify it's complete since 8/16." 6 hours later: CASE CLOSED!

Consulate
Sep 13: INTERVIEW scheduled, email letter arrived
Sep 15: MEDICAL in Stockholm
Sep 23: Packet Left NVC -> Embassy
Oct 31: INTERVIEW 4-minutes and DONE. APPROVED. Visa is "in the mail"

Nov 27: arrival in USA

DIVORCE: final May 2015 - never whould have married without dating in-person for at least a year.

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Filed: Timeline

Your income does not include the children's SSA payments. Those payments belong to the children. As trustee, you must use the money for those children's benefits. You are merely holding the money for the benefit of the children and spending it for their benefit. The money never ever belongs to you. Accordingly, you can't count these payments in the I-864 because it's not your money. It's not your money for "employment" as a trustee.

You will have to rely on your assets or get a joint sponsor.

Edited by Jojo92122

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Sweden
Timeline

Your income does not include the children's SSA payments. Those payments belong to the children. As trustee, you must use the money for those children's benefits. You are merely holding the money for the benefit of the children and spending it for their benefit. The money never ever belongs to you. Accordingly, you can't count these payments in the I-864 because it's not your money. It's not your money for "employment" as a trustee.

You will have to rely on your assets or get a joint sponsor.

I understand what you are saying, but in truth, the money pays for the kids to live in a home and have health insurance. These monthly payments keep the household running. I happen to get to live here too and benefit from Kaiser Family plan.

We could say the kids are self-sustaining through SSA, which means I shoudln't have to say it is a household of 7. Thi big picture for our family is: yes, there will be 7 of us living together, but the household does live above poverty level, and we are not on a means-tested program.

I do have assets to cover it, so this is sort of academic/esoteric, but the more I think about it, the more I think the form is missing the point of guaranteeing the household can sustain itself. I am just trying to figure out where I can put it so the office understands this odd permutation. :)


IR-1/CR-1 Spouse CA Svc Ctr 2011 (82 days) Apr07: NOA1. Jun27: NOA2 text.
Delivery from USCIS to NVC (24 days) Jul21: CSC mailed it to NVC

NVC (43 days)
Jul25: "in the NVC bldg"---->Jul26: NVC Case#,IIN# (1 day in-house, 29 days since NOA2)

AOS i-864.....Jul28: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug01: "paid"/mailed (4 days). Aug3: AOS in the bldg
Aug 11: phone rep "AOS RFE: 23/24a: no blanks" (pdf won't print n/a"). Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 12)
Aug 22: AOS approved

IV ds-230:
Jul26: send DS-3032 ----> Jul29: DS-3032 accepted (3 days)
Aug01: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug02: "paid"/mailed (1 day)
Aug04:ds-230 delivered ---> Aug 12: "under review"
Aug 15: phone rep "RFE:ds-230 #30." (16th bdate left as "----") Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 16)
Aug 30: phone rep: "no military record." me: "it's there!" rep: "15 biz days starting today"
Sep 06: phone rep: "needs review. 15 MORE biz days" me: "no way" Supervisor asks Mgr "open file & verify it's complete since 8/16." 6 hours later: CASE CLOSED!

Consulate
Sep 13: INTERVIEW scheduled, email letter arrived
Sep 15: MEDICAL in Stockholm
Sep 23: Packet Left NVC -> Embassy
Oct 31: INTERVIEW 4-minutes and DONE. APPROVED. Visa is "in the mail"

Nov 27: arrival in USA

DIVORCE: final May 2015 - never whould have married without dating in-person for at least a year.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Mexico
Timeline

Line 23 is where you put it, with documentation as explained in the instructions--maybe they accept it, maybe not

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Sweden
Timeline

Read instructions for Line 23--it is all spelled out for you.

Instructions fro line 23 include:

"If your claimed income includes alimony, child support, dividend or interest income, or income from any other source, you may also include evidence of that income."

SSA is just like Child Support - except it comes from SS, not ex-spouse.

fuzzy, eh? heheh

thank you for trying to help me out. I appreciate the support VJ member show toward one aother.


IR-1/CR-1 Spouse CA Svc Ctr 2011 (82 days) Apr07: NOA1. Jun27: NOA2 text.
Delivery from USCIS to NVC (24 days) Jul21: CSC mailed it to NVC

NVC (43 days)
Jul25: "in the NVC bldg"---->Jul26: NVC Case#,IIN# (1 day in-house, 29 days since NOA2)

AOS i-864.....Jul28: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug01: "paid"/mailed (4 days). Aug3: AOS in the bldg
Aug 11: phone rep "AOS RFE: 23/24a: no blanks" (pdf won't print n/a"). Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 12)
Aug 22: AOS approved

IV ds-230:
Jul26: send DS-3032 ----> Jul29: DS-3032 accepted (3 days)
Aug01: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug02: "paid"/mailed (1 day)
Aug04:ds-230 delivered ---> Aug 12: "under review"
Aug 15: phone rep "RFE:ds-230 #30." (16th bdate left as "----") Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 16)
Aug 30: phone rep: "no military record." me: "it's there!" rep: "15 biz days starting today"
Sep 06: phone rep: "needs review. 15 MORE biz days" me: "no way" Supervisor asks Mgr "open file & verify it's complete since 8/16." 6 hours later: CASE CLOSED!

Consulate
Sep 13: INTERVIEW scheduled, email letter arrived
Sep 15: MEDICAL in Stockholm
Sep 23: Packet Left NVC -> Embassy
Oct 31: INTERVIEW 4-minutes and DONE. APPROVED. Visa is "in the mail"

Nov 27: arrival in USA

DIVORCE: final May 2015 - never whould have married without dating in-person for at least a year.

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Sweden
Timeline

Your income does not include the children's SSA payments. Those payments belong to the children. As trustee, you must use the money for those children's benefits. You are merely holding the money for the benefit of the children and spending it for their benefit. The money never ever belongs to you. Accordingly, you can't count these payments in the I-864 because it's not your money. It's not your money for "employment" as a trustee.

You will have to rely on your assets or get a joint sponsor.

I think SSA-SurvivorBenefits are actually more like child support, which is named in line 23 on i-864. You are correct though: It is absolutely used for the benefit of the kids. I have to sign documents to that effect at the conclusion of every year. The SS office was actually SURPRISED when I told them I no longer qualified for my benefits due to marriage. Marrying overseas, they would never have known.

Thanks for the help though. It helps to talk this through with others and hash through both sides of the argument :)


IR-1/CR-1 Spouse CA Svc Ctr 2011 (82 days) Apr07: NOA1. Jun27: NOA2 text.
Delivery from USCIS to NVC (24 days) Jul21: CSC mailed it to NVC

NVC (43 days)
Jul25: "in the NVC bldg"---->Jul26: NVC Case#,IIN# (1 day in-house, 29 days since NOA2)

AOS i-864.....Jul28: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug01: "paid"/mailed (4 days). Aug3: AOS in the bldg
Aug 11: phone rep "AOS RFE: 23/24a: no blanks" (pdf won't print n/a"). Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 12)
Aug 22: AOS approved

IV ds-230:
Jul26: send DS-3032 ----> Jul29: DS-3032 accepted (3 days)
Aug01: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug02: "paid"/mailed (1 day)
Aug04:ds-230 delivered ---> Aug 12: "under review"
Aug 15: phone rep "RFE:ds-230 #30." (16th bdate left as "----") Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 16)
Aug 30: phone rep: "no military record." me: "it's there!" rep: "15 biz days starting today"
Sep 06: phone rep: "needs review. 15 MORE biz days" me: "no way" Supervisor asks Mgr "open file & verify it's complete since 8/16." 6 hours later: CASE CLOSED!

Consulate
Sep 13: INTERVIEW scheduled, email letter arrived
Sep 15: MEDICAL in Stockholm
Sep 23: Packet Left NVC -> Embassy
Oct 31: INTERVIEW 4-minutes and DONE. APPROVED. Visa is "in the mail"

Nov 27: arrival in USA

DIVORCE: final May 2015 - never whould have married without dating in-person for at least a year.

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Sweden
Timeline

it's the "from any other source" that makes one think they might accept it, doesn't it

Think this one through: if they accepted child support, then... wouldnt' that be in effect obligating the other parent on some level? In this case, the SSA benefits will continue at Family Max level for at least another 7 years, then taper down every 3 years for 6 years until my youngest is 18.

Seems like one branch of governement should be able to rely on another branch of government more than relying on child support. or? ;)

Thanks for you time and effort.


IR-1/CR-1 Spouse CA Svc Ctr 2011 (82 days) Apr07: NOA1. Jun27: NOA2 text.
Delivery from USCIS to NVC (24 days) Jul21: CSC mailed it to NVC

NVC (43 days)
Jul25: "in the NVC bldg"---->Jul26: NVC Case#,IIN# (1 day in-house, 29 days since NOA2)

AOS i-864.....Jul28: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug01: "paid"/mailed (4 days). Aug3: AOS in the bldg
Aug 11: phone rep "AOS RFE: 23/24a: no blanks" (pdf won't print n/a"). Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 12)
Aug 22: AOS approved

IV ds-230:
Jul26: send DS-3032 ----> Jul29: DS-3032 accepted (3 days)
Aug01: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug02: "paid"/mailed (1 day)
Aug04:ds-230 delivered ---> Aug 12: "under review"
Aug 15: phone rep "RFE:ds-230 #30." (16th bdate left as "----") Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 16)
Aug 30: phone rep: "no military record." me: "it's there!" rep: "15 biz days starting today"
Sep 06: phone rep: "needs review. 15 MORE biz days" me: "no way" Supervisor asks Mgr "open file & verify it's complete since 8/16." 6 hours later: CASE CLOSED!

Consulate
Sep 13: INTERVIEW scheduled, email letter arrived
Sep 15: MEDICAL in Stockholm
Sep 23: Packet Left NVC -> Embassy
Oct 31: INTERVIEW 4-minutes and DONE. APPROVED. Visa is "in the mail"

Nov 27: arrival in USA

DIVORCE: final May 2015 - never whould have married without dating in-person for at least a year.

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Filed: Citizen (apr) Country: Mexico
Timeline

As someone said to me early in the process--don't think about what is logical--just follow the instructions to a tee !! And so far that has worked great.

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Filed: Timeline

Instructions fro line 23 include:

"If your claimed income includes alimony, child support, dividend or interest income, or income from any other source, you may also include evidence of that income."

SSA is just like Child Support - except it comes from SS, not ex-spouse.

fuzzy, eh? heheh

thank you for trying to help me out. I appreciate the support VJ member show toward one aother.

It's not fuzzy at all. You need to get an understanding of what it means to be a trustee and trust law.

You are a trustee. That means the money received from SSA is held in trust for the children. You are suppose to use the money for the children's support. Minor children cannot make contracts, so they can't even go to a bank and make a contract to open a checking account. That is why SSA put you, a responsible adult, in charge of their money.

Child support comes come a parent. It does not come from SSA. Your children are receiving benefits because a parent who paid Social Security taxes died. It's more like getting a life insurance annuity.

While I understand your stance that the money is being used to support the children, it is not your money.

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Filed: Timeline

Think this one through: if they accepted child support, then... wouldnt' that be in effect obligating the other parent on some level? In this case, the SSA benefits will continue at Family Max level for at least another 7 years, then taper down every 3 years for 6 years until my youngest is 18.

Seems like one branch of governement should be able to rely on another branch of government more than relying on child support. or? ;)

Thanks for you time and effort.

If your husband divorces you or move out, you would still be obligated under the I-864. Would you really use the children's SSA money to pay for any means tested benefits your husband receives?

The I-864 obligation is to make sure that the sponsor pays for the means tested benefits used by the immigrant the sponsor brings to the US.

As trustee, you cannot use the children's money to pay for any means tested benefit your husband may receive. You would be committing a crime if you used their money to pay your obligations under the I-864.

In this case, the government does know what it is doing. You cannot use your children's money to pay your obligations so that is why you cannot list it as your income because it is your children's income.

Edited by Jojo92122

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Filed: IR-1/CR-1 Visa Country: Sweden
Timeline

It's not fuzzy at all. You need to get an understanding of what it means to be a trustee and trust law.

You are a trustee. That means the money received from SSA is held in trust for the children. You are suppose to use the money for the children's support. Minor children cannot make contracts, so they can't even go to a bank and make a contract to open a checking account. That is why SSA put you, a responsible adult, in charge of their money.

Child support comes come a parent. It does not come from SSA. Your children are receiving benefits because a parent who paid Social Security taxes died. It's more like getting a life insurance annuity.

While I understand your stance that the money is being used to support the children, it is not your money.

We all agree it is not my money. :)

I am trying to make the point that the i-864 process gets an assessment of the HOUSEHOLD. And yes, while there are 5 kids, housing and health insurance are taken care of through SSA; I think that's an important part of the picture. I don't spend very much money from prior savings on myself... with the exception of paying I-130 application fees to get husband here...but that too is for the benefit of the kids... ;)

If your husband divorces you or move out, you would still be obligated under the I-864. Would you really use the children's SSA money to pay for any means tested benefits your husband receives?

The I-864 obligation is to make sure that the sponsor pays for the means tested benefits used by the immigrant the sponsor brings to the US.

As trustee, you cannot use the children's money to pay for any means tested benefit your husband may receive. You would be committing a crime if you used their money to pay your obligations under the I-864.

In this case, the government does know what it is doing. You cannot use your children's money to pay your obligations so that is why you cannot list it as your income because it is your children's income.

good argument... but then why is "child support" listed on form?

and yes, I do have assets to cover thedifference, so I am not worried about the situation you described. :)

Edited by Å&M

IR-1/CR-1 Spouse CA Svc Ctr 2011 (82 days) Apr07: NOA1. Jun27: NOA2 text.
Delivery from USCIS to NVC (24 days) Jul21: CSC mailed it to NVC

NVC (43 days)
Jul25: "in the NVC bldg"---->Jul26: NVC Case#,IIN# (1 day in-house, 29 days since NOA2)

AOS i-864.....Jul28: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug01: "paid"/mailed (4 days). Aug3: AOS in the bldg
Aug 11: phone rep "AOS RFE: 23/24a: no blanks" (pdf won't print n/a"). Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 12)
Aug 22: AOS approved

IV ds-230:
Jul26: send DS-3032 ----> Jul29: DS-3032 accepted (3 days)
Aug01: bill rcv'd (2 days)& paid ---->Aug02: "paid"/mailed (1 day)
Aug04:ds-230 delivered ---> Aug 12: "under review"
Aug 15: phone rep "RFE:ds-230 #30." (16th bdate left as "----") Fedex'd new copy (arrived Aug 16)
Aug 30: phone rep: "no military record." me: "it's there!" rep: "15 biz days starting today"
Sep 06: phone rep: "needs review. 15 MORE biz days" me: "no way" Supervisor asks Mgr "open file & verify it's complete since 8/16." 6 hours later: CASE CLOSED!

Consulate
Sep 13: INTERVIEW scheduled, email letter arrived
Sep 15: MEDICAL in Stockholm
Sep 23: Packet Left NVC -> Embassy
Oct 31: INTERVIEW 4-minutes and DONE. APPROVED. Visa is "in the mail"

Nov 27: arrival in USA

DIVORCE: final May 2015 - never whould have married without dating in-person for at least a year.

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Filed: Country:
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SSA is just like Child Support - except it comes from SS, not ex-spouse.

fuzzy, eh? heheh

I understand what you're saying and agree that you would think they would accept it somehow but...

As Jojo has pointed-out there is another big difference between Child Support & SSA Survivor benefits, that being the Child Support payments are paid to you the parent and it is your money to be used to help support the children whereas you only act as the Trustee of the SSA Payments and are even subject to audit.

If it was me filling out the I-864 and I had sufficient assets to not need to include the SSA payments then that's what I would do as it's less complicated. If you need the SSA then by all means include in on line 23 along with proof of the payment amount and expected duration but have a co-sponsor waiting in the wings just in case.

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