Good things and things to explain or carefully walk around

[birdman2010 0]

Later this week I'm going to China for the first time to meet a lady who I've been chatting with off an on since March of last year.

If we decide to proceed with a K-1 it will be my second application within two years.

Here's the story:

In January of 2010 I was in Ukraine and I met a lady who I decided to chat with more.

In February of 2010 I asked a friend who brought his wife over from China if he knew of any women in China interested in meeting an American man.

My friend, who has a Chinese wife, gave me the contact info for a lady his wife knew of. In March I contacted this Chinese lady via email and QQ, and I called her on the phone. Our contact was very light.

In April I filed an I-129F for the Ukraine woman.

Around July or August my contact with the Chinese woman became less and less, and my contact with the Ukraine woman more.

An embassy interview was scheduled for the Ukraine woman in Kiev for October. The interview date came. After the interview date the Ukraine woman told me that she received a denial from the embassy - that the embassy supposedly told her to try again in a few months. However when I called to the embassy myself I found out that she never attended the interview. Once I discovered her deception I wrote to the embassy and asked that they cancel the K-1 petition. And in January of this year I received a letter from the USCIS stating that the petition had expired & that I could refile if I wanted.

From about the middle of August through December 24 of last year I had no contact with the Chinese woman.

After the Ukraine fiasco I didn't know if I wanted to pursue trying to bring someone over again. In November & December I tried the American online dating scene again and found it to be a huge waste of time as before. On December 25, after taking stock of all that occurred and what my options were, I decided to take the plunge and again pursue contact with the woman in China. So I contacted my friend here and asked him to reach out via his wife to the Chinese woman. And then I also contacted her again myself.

Our emails started up again in late December. And this Thursday I fly to southern China to meet her for the first time in person. I also plan to meet her family and friends.

So, here's the good things relative to a potential app, if we decide to proceed:

1. She has a good job, as an English teacher at a vocational school. She would be giving up a lot by leaving China & coming to America relative to her job. She she does have ties to China and she's not desperate to come to America because she's unemployed & has no career.

2. She has shown her ability to learn and if she came she would want to go to school so that she could be a teacher here.

And here's the things that may need explaining on a potential petition, or carefully walking around:

A. We were introduced by a mutual friends here (an American man and his Chinese wife).

B. The Chinese wife in point A is friends with the cousin of the lady I've been chatting with in China.

C. I've been to the house of the cousin a couple of times for dinner within the past month. The cousin is very excited about the prospect of her niece finally finding a man, because the lady in China is 30 something and has never found a husband. I'm 43.

D. There was not simultaneous petitions, but if we proceed with one then two of them will come close on the the heals of each other. The "chat history" for 2010 on a potential new petition will encompass a period of time when I did have an active petition going for the Ukraine woman.

In the coming months, if we file a petition, there will of course be a lot more chat history created. And a lot of photos from the upcoming visit. And so on.

But I've seriously thought about going through the chat history and taking out any reference that she has a cousin here at all, or that I've been to her cousin's house. If the mere fact that I've had contact with someone who is a blood relative of the lady in China is going outright block a K-1 petition, if we proceed, and after we wait 5 months or so for the initial notice of action - it does concern me and kept me up this night as I thought about my initial visit to see this lady in China this week.

You'd think that all we'd need to do is focus on the fact that we're meeting, but apparently I also have to worry about the fact that I've had the audacity to have contact with a cousin of hers here. And reportedly I must also explain in detail to the Chinese lady what happened with the Ukraine petition because reportedly Guangzhou may ask her about that.

However: Unlike the woman in Ukraine, this lady in China has a job. She seems more stable & more normal than the other lady, which now that I'm out of the fog of the previous thing I can see more clearly - and on Dec 25 I realized more clearly the totality of the situation.

So, this is our initial meeting this week. I wish I didn't have to worry about all this extra stuff as we start the in person phase of our relationship.

Perhaps last year I pursued the option of chatting with this lady in China as a "backup" because I suspected the disingenuous nature of the lady I was dealing with from Ukraine on a more deep down level even from the get go. And there was a break in my chatting with the lady in China as I thought the Ukraine woman was going to actually have her embassy interview. And there was also a break after I discovered the betrayal and when I wasn't sure if I wanted to pursue trying bringing over another person as a life partner.

I understand that I may need to explain some or all of this to the lady in China.

It's good that she speaks good English & that she's an English teacher. She has a job and so on.

But the fact that we were introduced by a friend & his wife (who came from China), and that I've been to the lady's cousin's house here a few times, I guess these are potential issues with the consulate in Guangzhou.

So for a potential petition there's good points, and points that need explaining or carefully walking around.

[Shenzhen 34]

Later this week I'm going to China for the first time to meet a lady who I've been chatting with off an on since March of last year.

If we decide to proceed with a K-1 it will be my second application within two years.

Here's the story:

In January of 2010 I was in Ukraine and I met a lady who I decided to chat with more.

In February of 2010 I asked a friend who brought his wife over from China if he knew of any women in China interested in meeting an American man.

My friend, who has a Chinese wife, gave me the contact info for a lady his wife knew of. In March I contacted this Chinese lady via email and QQ, and I called her on the phone. Our contact was very light.

In April I filed an I-129F for the Ukraine woman.

Hello you are going be scrutinized severely. Wow do you have emails and chat logs with the Chinese girl for the past few months. Maybe you can say you met on yahoo? Don't even mention anything about being introduced by a family member. Have you withdrawn the petition for the Ukraine yet? That has to be a written letter. Of course they will ask your potential fiancee in China if she knows about the previous petition.

Around July or August my contact with the Chinese woman became less and less, and my contact with the Ukraine woman more.

An embassy interview was scheduled for the Ukraine woman in Kiev for October. The interview date came. After the interview date the Ukraine woman told me that she received a denial from the embassy - that the embassy supposedly told her to try again in a few months. However when I called to the embassy myself I found out that she never attended the interview. Once I discovered her deception I wrote to the embassy and asked that they cancel the K-1 petition. And in January of this year I received a letter from the USCIS stating that the petition had expired & that I could refile if I wanted.

From about the middle of August through December 24 of last year I had no contact with the Chinese woman.

After the Ukraine fiasco I didn't know if I wanted to pursue trying to bring someone over again. In November & December I tried the American online dating scene again and found it to be a huge waste of time as before. On December 25, after taking stock of all that occurred and what my options were, I decided to take the plunge and again pursue contact with the woman in China. So I contacted my friend here and asked him to reach out via his wife to the Chinese woman. And then I also contacted her again myself.

Our emails started up again in late December. And this Thursday I fly to southern China to meet her for the first time in person. I also plan to meet her family and friends.

So, here's the good things relative to a potential app, if we decide to proceed:

1. She has a good job, as an English teacher at a vocational school. She would be giving up a lot by leaving China & coming to America relative to her job. She she does have ties to China and she's not desperate to come to America because she's unemployed & has no career.

2. She has shown her ability to learn and if she came she would want to go to school so that she could be a teacher here.

And here's the things that may need explaining on a potential petition, or carefully walking around:

A. We were introduced by a mutual friends here (an American man and his Chinese wife).

B. The Chinese wife in point A is friends with the cousin of the lady I've been chatting with in China.

C. I've been to the house of the cousin a couple of times for dinner within the past month. The cousin is very excited about the prospect of her niece finally finding a man, because the lady in China is 30 something and has never found a husband. I'm 43.

D. There was not simultaneous petitions, but if we proceed with one then two of them will come close on the the heals of each other. The "chat history" for 2010 on a potential new petition will encompass a period of time when I did have an active petition going for the Ukraine woman.

In the coming months, if we file a petition, there will of course be a lot more chat history created. And a lot of photos from the upcoming visit. And so on.

But I've seriously thought about going through the chat history and taking out any reference that she has a cousin here at all, or that I've been to her cousin's house. If the mere fact that I've had contact with someone who is a blood relative of the lady in China is going outright block a K-1 petition, if we proceed, and after we wait 5 months or so for the initial notice of action - it does concern me and kept me up this night as I thought about my initial visit to see this lady in China this week.

You'd think that all we'd need to do is focus on the fact that we're meeting, but apparently I also have to worry about the fact that I've had the audacity to have contact with a cousin of hers here. And reportedly I must also explain in detail to the Chinese lady what happened with the Ukraine petition because reportedly Guangzhou may ask her about that.

However: Unlike the woman in Ukraine, this lady in China has a job. She seems more stable & more normal than the other lady, which now that I'm out of the fog of the previous thing I can see more clearly - and on Dec 25 I realized more clearly the totality of the situation.

So, this is our initial meeting this week. I wish I didn't have to worry about all this extra stuff as we start the in person phase of our relationship.

Perhaps last year I pursued the option of chatting with this lady in China as a "backup" because I suspected the disingenuous nature of the lady I was dealing with from Ukraine on a more deep down level even from the get go. And there was a break in my chatting with the lady in China as I thought the Ukraine woman was going to actually have her embassy interview. And there was also a break after I discovered the betrayal and when I wasn't sure if I wanted to pursue trying bringing over another person as a life partner.

I understand that I may need to explain some or all of this to the lady in China.

It's good that she speaks good English & that she's an English teacher. She has a job and so on.

But the fact that we were introduced by a friend & his wife (who came from China), and that I've been to the lady's cousin's house here a few times, I guess these are potential issues with the consulate in Guangzhou.

So for a potential petition there's good points, and points that need explaining or carefully walking around.

Ni hao,

You are going be scrutinized severely by the USCIS and Guangzhou embassy. Wow do you have emails and chat logs with the Chinese girl for the past few months. Maybe you can say you met on yahoo? Don't even mention anything about being introduced by a family member. That's almost an instant denial. Have you withdrawn the petition for the Ukraine yet? That has to be a written letter. Of course they will ask your potential fiancee in China if she knows about the previous petition. I had similar problems with petitions from the Philippines I had filed. I went to China after meeting my SO online. She has no family here that's a real plus. I met her through blossoms website. We talked for 3 months daily and we started planning our wedding before I arrived later that year. Getting back to you, I think you might want to wait a while and go back and get married. It's definitely going to be a longer wait on a k-3. I think it shows you are more serious this time. I don't know you have lot's of issues to deal with. I was also interrogated by CBP on my last 2 return trips from visiting the wife. Good luck enjoy your China trip.

Zai jian

[birdman2010 0]

Ni hao,

You are going be scrutinized severely by the USCIS and Guangzhou embassy. Wow do you have emails and chat logs with the Chinese girl for the past few months. Maybe you can say you met on yahoo? Don't even mention anything about being introduced by a family member. That's almost an instant denial. Have you withdrawn the petition for the Ukraine yet? That has to be a written letter. Of course they will ask your potential fiancee in China if she knows about the previous petition. I had similar problems with petitions from the Philippines I had filed. I went to China after meeting my SO online. She has no family here that's a real plus. I met her through blossoms website. We talked for 3 months daily and we started planning our wedding before I arrived later that year. Getting back to you, I think you might want to wait a while and go back and get married. It's definitely going to be a longer wait on a k-3. I think it shows you are more serious this time. I don't know you have lot's of issues to deal with. I was also interrogated by CBP on my last 2 return trips from visiting the wife. Good luck enjoy your China trip.

Zai jian

Thanks.

I wanted to write an additional note and say that we were introduced by a friend, and that friend knew of her via a cousin who also lives here. So the person who did the actual introducing is a friend not a relative. But the friend here knows the cousin who's here also, and I've been to the cousin's house. Does all this sound like an instant denial also?

If we proceed I could write in the "explanation of how we met" related letter I have to write for the petition, and ask her to state in the interview, that we met by happenstance on QQ, an online instant messaging service popular in China & available in English elsewhere that allows random people online to meet and chat with each other. Our first chatting was via QQ, so that is essentially where we first "met."

How did we "meet?" We first met via an online chatting platform that allows random people to connect with each other and start chatting called QQ. That is a factual statement. Why go further?

KISS - keep it simple.

The petition in Ukraine was sent back from the embassy to the USCIS after it expired. There was no denial for cause other than an expiration. The USCIS sent me a confirmation letter about this. I did ask the embassy to cancel in writing. But they may have just let it expire since it was set to expire at the end of October anyway.

I think I can do forms and petitions pretty well, and I take your point to not be too complicated with things as well. If we proceed we'll consider the other routes and skip the K-1.

[Shenzhen 34]

Thanks.

I wanted to write an additional note and say that we were introduced by a friend, and that friend knew of her via a cousin who also lives here. So the person who did the actual introducing is a friend not a relative. But the friend here knows the cousin who's here also, and I've been to the cousin's house. Does all this sound like an instant denial also?

If we proceed I could write in the "explanation of how we met" related letter I have to write for the petition, and ask her to state in the interview, that we met by happenstance on QQ, an online instant messaging service popular in China & available in English elsewhere that allows random people online to meet and chat with each other. Our first chatting was via QQ, so that is essentially where we first "met."

How did we "meet?" We first met via an online chatting platform that allows random people to connect with each other and start chatting called QQ. That is a factual statement. Why go further?

KISS - keep it simple.

The petition in Ukraine was sent back from the embassy to the USCIS after it expired. There was no denial for cause other than an expiration. The USCIS sent me a confirmation letter about this. I did ask the embassy to cancel in writing. But they may have just let it expire since it was set to expire at the end of October anyway.

I think I can do forms and petitions pretty well, and I take your point to not be too complicated with things as well. If we proceed we'll consider the other routes and skip the K-1.

QQ will work sounds like you got everything planned out keep all of your receipts hotels, boarding passes, and vacation forms if you have them or self employed obviously you won't need them. Good luck! Xin nian kuai le! Happy new year in Chinese!

[pushbrk 12,106]

The key to success in this case is to be frank and completely truthful about the Ukraine relationship and then build a solid relationship and evidence to go with it, should you pursue the K1 visa with the Chinese woman. Remember that time actually spent together is the most important and effective "evidence" of a bona fide relationship. I would plan to make more than one trip to China. You might even seriously consider marriage in China on the first of second trip and pursue the spouse visa instead of the K1. This removes the need to request a waiver for a second I-129F filing and helps with your evidence of bona fide relationship.

Rather than deciding before your visit, just which visa you'll pursue, I would have an extensive discussion of what your life goals and priorities are with regard to where and when to marry, then pursue the visa that best fits those goals and priorities.

[xiaozhu 4]

The key to success in this case is to be frank and completely truthful about the Ukraine relationship and then build a solid relationship and evidence to go with it, should you pursue the K1 visa with the Chinese woman. Remember that time actually spent together is the most important and effective "evidence" of a bona fide relationship. I would plan to make more than one trip to China. You might even seriously consider marriage in China on the first of second trip and pursue the spouse visa instead of the K1. This removes the need to request a waiver for a second I-129F filing and helps with your evidence of bona fide relationship.

Rather than deciding before your visit, just which visa you'll pursue, I would have an extensive discussion of what your life goals and priorities are with regard to where and when to marry, then pursue the visa that best fits those goals and priorities.

I totally agree with pushbrk's opinion!! Instead of working on how to make evidences of your relationship with the Chinese lady, please focus on whether and how to develop a serious and a bona fide relationship with this Chinese lady!! Please rethink of the purpose of your visit to her!!

You mentioned in your story, you used the Chinese lady as a backup even while you filed a petition for the Ukraine girl. When you blame that Ukraine girls deception and betrayal, please rethink about what you were doing.

The good thing is that it seems you honestly tell your story! If so, I believe a true love will come to you soon.

Edited February 5, 2011 by xiaozhu

[Ryan H 3,790]

OP: I agree with the statements pushbrk and xiaozhu have said to you. You may or may not be able to determine all of your goals and priorities in a single visit. As it has been said already, focus on building a relationship and see where it the path takes you and then make decisions that are best suited to you both.

I wish you the best going forward and I also wish you a great trip.

[birdman2010 0]

My trip to China was very successful. The replies after Shenzhen's were not read by me before my going on the trip FYI. So now I'm back.

We both had a very positive experience. I gave her a ring and we plan to move forward.

I also have many very good photos. I plan to include quite a few more than the usual number of photos in the petition.

While not going into great detail I will say that I believe we are more suited to each other and our paths converge in a more happy way.

Her family was incredibly gracious. I met her parents and her extended family, and we visited many parks where we could quietly walk, sit, and talk.

I did tell her about the Ukraine experience and how I felt my temporary pursuit of that whole deal was a mistake, and that it was also a mistake to temporarily stop my communication with her. But the Ukraine thing ended in October. And I picked up my contact with the Chinese woman again in late December.

The lady in China was incredibly affectionate and fun. So I plan to now do all I can to prepare a good petition, and to possibly return in May for another visit.

On the way over I met in passing a man who's been doing a spouse visa and he shared that it takes a lot longer for such visas. Maybe you had a different experience.

Well, in any case, if you have comments on what size of photos to include in the petition let me know. 4x6 or 3x5. I'll probably do 4x6, and like I said I'll include many more than is required because of the reputation of the consulate involved, and because of the other issues I mentioned. We have some very good stories to share via our pictures.

To those who shared advise previously you should know that I was fully open about the previous situation with my lady in China. My lady in China has a lot to offer. A stable & service oriented woman who likes helping others & teaching. An incredibly gentle and gracious family from a small farming town. A bubbly nature and a love for life. And her family was impressed by me. What more do you want? So we'll press on.

[pushbrk 12,106]

On the way over I met in passing a man who's been doing a spouse visa and he shared that it takes a lot longer for such visas. Maybe you had a different experience.

Good luck to you. The statement above though is well, how do I put it, kind of like asking a man who has an appointment for a vasectomy, whether vasectomies, or tubal ligations hurt more. He simply doesn't know because he doesn't have any frame of reference other than what he was told by somebody or some somebodies.

Even though if managed efficiently a spouse visa process should take only a few weeks longer than a fiancee process from filing to interview, particularly from China,... you didn't get married. That means you can begin a fiancee visa process now but cannot begin a spouse visa process until you can get there again and marry. So, if you're ready and in a hurry, K1 it is.

On the analogy, I've had a vasectomy with poor administration of anesthesia and I've observed two wives recover from tubal ligations. Based on that, I would say that which one hurts more depends on how well the anesthesia is managed. You can also screw up a fiancee visa process so it takes a LOT longer than a well managed spouse process would have taken.

[birdman2010 0]

I was planning on sending a lot more photos than is normally required - perhaps around 200.

They were taken with a digital camera, but I had it in 4:3 aspect ratio mode. So the image size if printed would be around 4x5.3 unaltered instead of 4x6.

Well, I could print them on regular or photo paper with my printer. But I could also crop them all or add some borders and have a photo place print them all as 4x6 prints, and then mount the prints on photo pages for 4x6 prints (using either the 2 or 3 prints per page type).

I've been reading that I-129F packages are reassembled into a top-punched ACCO fastener style format. So, if I use the 4x6 photo pages, the top punch machine is going to punch holes in my photos.

Well, perhaps I'll print the photos on photo paper, so that I can arrange them better and include text descriptions under each photo.

But I could still do the 4x6 print option and put them into photo pages.

I know that ~200 is way more than is normally suggested. But in this case I feel it's important to have more than the usual.

The technically easiest thing for me to do would be to print them all as 4x5.3 inch prints using an online service that has that print size, and to put them into the 4x6 photo sheets, and to put everything in a large 3 ring binder with all the chat logs and forms. I know the USCIS will reorganize everything - perhaps with the 2 hole top punch method.

It would take longer for me to manually set the photos onto each printed page of about 33 pages and to add captions, print each page & ensure each looks good. But I'll do whatever seems best.

Well, let me know what you recommend.

Edited February 17, 2011 by birdman2010

[pushbrk 12,106]

I was planning on sending a lot more photos than is normally required - perhaps around 200.

They were taken with a digital camera, but I had it in 4:3 aspect ratio mode. So the image size if printed would be around 4x5.3 unaltered instead of 4x6.

Well, I could print them on regular or photo paper with my printer. But I could also crop them all or add some borders and have a photo place print them all as 4x6 prints, and then mount the prints on photo pages for 4x6 prints (using either the 2 or 3 prints per page type).

I've been reading that I-129F packages are reassembled into a top-punched ACCO fastener style format. So, if I use the 4x6 photo pages, the top punch machine is going to punch holes in my photos.

Well, perhaps I'll print the photos on photo paper, so that I can arrange them better and include text descriptions under each photo.

But I could still do the 4x6 print option and put them into photo pages.

I know that ~200 is way more than is normally suggested. But in this case I feel it's important to have more than the usual.

The technically easiest thing for me to do would be to print them all as 4x5.3 inch prints using an online service that has that print size, and to put them into the 4x6 photo sheets, and to put everything in a large 3 ring binder with all the chat logs and forms. I know the USCIS will reorganize everything - perhaps with the 2 hole top punch method.

It would take longer for me to manually set the photos onto each printed page of about 33 pages and to add captions, print each page & ensure each looks good. But I'll do whatever seems best.

Well, let me know what you recommend.

Limit the photos to 18 or 27 and print them 9 to a page on plain paper. Having 200 photos won't help you as much as actually building a bona fide relationship and excellent interview preparation will. Trying to baffle them with BS will not help you. Be reasonable. Select the photos so each has either both of you, both of you and other family members or you with other family members. Most should be just the two of you. Not too many taken the same day.

[birdman2010 0]

Limit the photos to 18 or 27 and print them 9 to a page on plain paper. Having 200 photos won't help you as much as actually building a bona fide relationship and excellent interview preparation will. Trying to baffle them with BS will not help you. Be reasonable. Select the photos so each has either both of you, both of you and other family members or you with other family members. Most should be just the two of you. Not too many taken the same day.

Hi.

This is what I decided to do this evening:

To have 12 images printed on 4x5.3 photo paper, and the rest I'll print myself on my printer (down to 115 now - smaller size as seems appropriate). I'll mount the 12 4x5.3 prints in photo pages and attach the rest like normal pages. I'll clip off any 3 ring binder holes on the left side of the photo pages as the USCIS doesn't use any side holes.

With this method I have a core group of photos proving initial contact via photo style prints, and the rest on regular paper with captions.

Also we did have several family dinners - at least 3 as shown in the photos.