Introduced by family

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Yes I am but I do know that there have been others that have made one trip only and proof of having known each by logs and had the party on that only one trip and gotten a pink.

There is no proof that making many trips will mean a pink.

No, but there's plenty of cases where people were denied and the CO specifically cited evidence of only one trip or a few days together. You are proof that having made only one trip is not an automatic denial, but in the face of so many who have been denied after only one trip I would be very reluctant to tell someone that it's not a problem.

[ScottThuy 140]

I suspect that for every 1 that gets lucky like Curtis, there are at least 4 that were not so lucky... There are probably more people like this applying than we see here because those here have the experiences of others to go by...

[lambchop4life 6]

Yes I am but I do know that there have been others that have made one trip only and proof of having known each by logs and had the party on that only one trip and gotten a pink.

There is no proof that making many trips will mean a pink.

Aloso agreed,

One Trip Wonder right here

[Jimen & Kenly 0]

List of relatives and a timeline. She even took it in early and they gave her a pink.

Am I allowed to send the timeline even if they didn't ask for it?

The questions I have for him is more along the lines of who bought the plane ticket? If you did can you show proof?

I bought the plane ticket, for my mom also. I used my debit card and I have monthly statements. That should be good enough?

Since you are a student where do you live? How support yourself and has anyone made deposits or given you money for living expenses? And so on.

I live in an apartment I bought. I still have a small mortgage. I live by myself.

I'm living off my savings and investments. I have no work income since I quit my job. I do rent out my parking spot for some extra cash. But that's too small of an income, even to report on the tax returns. Like I said, my finances are fine, even without a co-sponsor. But I'm using one anyway, since I have no job.

I am aware of the talk that co-sponsors aren't accepted at HCMC. Even savings don't matter, according to some. But I know that there is such a thing as immigration policies. So the government shouldn't be allowed to trample on my rights. If they do, I as a citizen have due process, don't I?

I know many of you are trying to help by identifying red flags. But there's nothing I can do about my finances. It is what it is. From what I have read, there should be no problems. My only concern is the introduction by a family member. I can't change this fact, and I'm not aware of any rules that cover this topic. Thus, the CO can make any conclusion he wants and I have no recourse. This is what I'm trying to resolve now. Are there any recourse I can use?

The reason why this issue is so insidious is because it's valid. Yes, the sister played matchmaker and wants to bring someone to the USA. But, that in itself isn't proof that the relationship is fake. Since the intent is basically true, there's no way to invalidate it. That's the insidious part.

--jc

[luckytxn 2,263]

Am I allowed to send the timeline even if they didn't ask for it?

Yes most do and you should also. I didn't because some on here had me so convinced that I was in bad shape and looking at a a possible denial that I decided to wait till after the interview and be sure that the timeline was attuned to her answers she gave. I should have sent it along with the list of relatives in the states.

I bought the plane ticket, for my mom also. I used my debit card and I have monthly statements. That should be good enough?

Yes it is and they may ask for proof of you paying for it so get that evidence if possible.

I live in an apartment I bought. I still have a small mortgage. I live by myself.

I'm living off my savings and investments. I have no work income since I quit my job. I do rent out my parking spot for some extra cash. But that's too small of an income, even to report on the tax returns. Like I said, my finances are fine, even without a co-sponsor. But I'm using one anyway, since I have no job.

I am aware of the talk that co-sponsors aren't accepted at HCMC. Even savings don't matter, according to some. But I know that there is such a thing as immigration policies. So the government shouldn't be allowed to trample on my rights. If they do, I as a citizen have due process, don't I?

Yes we are but they DO NOT accept co sponsors for a K-1 visa at this consulate but this is a moot point since you have the finances to overcome the lack of income.

I know many of you are trying to help by identifying red flags. But there's nothing I can do about my finances. It is what it is. From what I have read, there should be no problems. My only concern is the introduction by a family member. I can't change this fact, and I'm not aware of any rules that cover this topic. Thus, the CO can make any conclusion he wants and I have no recourse. This is what I'm trying to resolve now. Are there any recourse I can use?

The reason and only reason I asked the former questions was that you know the main red flag is the family introduction. If and only if they find anything fishy about that introduction they may dig and see if they can find anything. They ask for a year transcripts of your bank account along with a letter from your bank. I asked the question because if any monies have gone into the account at about the time of what they see as your introduction they may think of it as being a pay to you to commit fraud. I am in no way saying you are or even thinking you are in the least but only trying to see things from a possible viewpoint of a CO at the consulate. I apologize for any appearance that I may have seemed to have made negatively.

The reason why this issue is so insidious is because it's valid. Yes, the sister played matchmaker and wants to bring someone to the USA. But, that in itself isn't proof that the relationship is fake. Since the intent is basically true, there's no way to invalidate it. That's the insidious part.

I totally agree with you. I was introduced by my wifes Aunt and that was one reason of several that some on here thought would do me in so to speak. Look we all know that this culture pretty much does this. The consulate knows this also and it is normal so I say don't worry too much about it but be aware of it and plan accordingly. Do much homework and most of all get a lot of relationship paperwork together for submission. (Email logs, Phone logs, pics and so on)

This journey may not seem fair but we have to play the game as they tell us to. We are here to help in anyway and any and all info that you need is here on this forum somewhere and our knowledge from going through the process can be a great help. God bless and good luck.

--jc

[luckytxn 2,263]

Aloso agreed,

One Trip Wonder right here

Awesome. I don't feel so all alone now.

I remember you well and hope all has been good for you both.

Edited August 13, 2010 by luckytxn

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Am I allowed to send the timeline even if they didn't ask for it?

Yes, but they aren't required to accept it until they actually ask for it. Some have managed to get it accepted with the document submission the first time the beneficiary is called up to the window. At least one beneficiary argued that it was an update to a document submitted with the petition, and the local VN employee reluctantly accepted it. Others have not been able to force them to accept the timeline even AFTER they were given a blue slip specifically requesting it. They were told to bring it back on the date specified on the blue slip. Still, it's better to have it in hand and be prepared.

I bought the plane ticket, for my mom also. I used my debit card and I have monthly statements. That should be good enough?

No worries there.

I live in an apartment I bought. I still have a small mortgage. I live by myself.

I'm living off my savings and investments. I have no work income since I quit my job. I do rent out my parking spot for some extra cash. But that's too small of an income, even to report on the tax returns. Like I said, my finances are fine, even without a co-sponsor. But I'm using one anyway, since I have no job.

I am aware of the talk that co-sponsors aren't accepted at HCMC. Even savings don't matter, according to some. But I know that there is such a thing as immigration policies. So the government shouldn't be allowed to trample on my rights. If they do, I as a citizen have due process, don't I?

Ok, brass tacks here...

There is no immigration policy or law that requires any consulate to accept a co-sponsor for a K visa applicant. If you can find such a policy it will be of immense use to a lot of people who have been denied because their co-sponsor was not accepted. The law requires the consular officer to make a judgment whether the beneficiary might become a public charge in the United States. There is some guidance in the Foreign Affairs Manual telling them the sort of things they should consider. Nowhere does it say that must accept a co-sponsor. It also doesn't put any limits on what they can demand as evidence. This is their game. You have to play by their rules.

Your rights - unfortunately, you have no rights where immigration is concerned. Immigration is not a right. It is a privilege granted at the discretion of the US government.

Due process - I've had this argument with Jerome, and we don't see eye to eye on the subject. Due process is only guaranteed when you are at risk of losing life, liberty, or property. This is explicitly spelled out in the Constitution. There is currently a class action lawsuit pending regarding the handling of returned petitions. Lack of due process is one of the principle claims in this lawsuit. My personal opinion is that the lawsuit has a pretty good chance of succeeding, but that this particular basis will be discarded out of hand because there is no Constitutional guarantee of due process in this case - the government is not threatening to kill you, imprison you, or seize your property.

I know many of you are trying to help by identifying red flags. But there's nothing I can do about my finances. It is what it is. From what I have read, there should be no problems. My only concern is the introduction by a family member. I can't change this fact, and I'm not aware of any rules that cover this topic. Thus, the CO can make any conclusion he wants and I have no recourse. This is what I'm trying to resolve now. Are there any recourse I can use?

The reason why this issue is so insidious is because it's valid. Yes, the sister played matchmaker and wants to bring someone to the USA. But, that in itself isn't proof that the relationship is fake. Since the intent is basically true, there's no way to invalidate it. That's the insidious part.

--jc

The same thing happened to me. I'd known Phuong's uncle for years, and I knew darn well what his motives were in introducing us. I was not bothered by it. Every relationship I've ever had has been the result of an introduction by family or friends of the girl. This was a little different because, in this case, the girl lived halfway around the world, and there was an incentive beyond simply helping a single mother find a husband. I'm not naive. We all have a list of reasons for getting involved in a relationship, and I wasn't going to fault her or her uncle if moving to the US was on that list. I only required that having genuine feelings for me was at the top of the list, and that none of the other reasons on her list involved anything I would find morally objectionable or would involve any harm to me or my family. Up until now, I think my judgment has been pretty good. I've never had a relationship this long without a single major argument.

The CO's want to make sure that you haven't either been duped by a girl who is playing you solely for a ticket to the US and a green card, or (even worse) been an active participant in an attempt to defraud the US government. You can help to prove this to them by demonstrating that the relationship is definitely real, and that the relationship developed on YOUR terms and without any excessive meddling or prodding by her family. This is what I did. Her uncle introduced us, but aside from occasionally asking how things were going, he had no direct involvement in the development of our relationship. He was with me on my first trip to Vietnam, but I made the other four trips on my own.

People suggest using question 18 on the I-129F for this because this is where you provide proof that you've complied with the two year meeting requirement. It's an open invitation to submit any evidence you want to submit. Since you've missed this opportunity, you can try again when you create your timeline.

[vietazn 1]

Forget about due process. Congress can do whatever it wants to regulate immigration.

It can stop all Vietnamese immigration if it wants to, just like it did to Chinese people

long time ago.

[ScottThuy 140]

Due process - I've had this argument with Jerome, and we don't see eye to eye on the subject. Due process is only guaranteed when you are at risk of losing life, liberty, or property. This is explicitly spelled out in the Constitution. There is currently a class action lawsuit pending regarding the handling of returned petitions. Lack of due process is one of the principle claims in this lawsuit. My personal opinion is that the lawsuit has a pretty good chance of succeeding, but that this particular basis will be discarded out of hand because there is no Constitutional guarantee of due process in this case - the government is not threatening to kill you, imprison you, or seize your property.

The recent filing that Marc posted about cited due process in it. I was surprised to see that he went that route... but many do feel that there is some right to due process when it comes to a petition for a spouse...

[luckytxn 2,263]

The recent filing that Marc posted about cited due process in it. I was surprised to see that he went that route... but many do feel that there is some right to due process when it comes to a petition for a spouse...

I personally think there should be a due process. At the least there should be able to have a full appeal done to be sure that some bureaucrat even knows what they are doing and not depriving very legit people to be together.

[ScottThuy 140]

I personally think there should be a due process. At the least there should be able to have a full appeal done to be sure that some bureaucrat even knows what they are doing and not depriving very legit people to be together.

Agreed this ####### about the petition expired, file a new one and pay again.. that aint right...

[wreath 4]

Danger will robinson danger... "only made 1 trip to VN" .... has anyone been approved having met and got engaged on the first and only trip before they filed the petition? I know that you guys have known each other through the internet for a long time, but IMO the CO considers the F2F meeting the first meeting... and would likely consider having met and got engaged in a short period of time... I'm not trying to sound all gloom and doom, but dont expect a pink at the interview... You have some big red flags in your case and it would take a great interview to overcome them first go...

FYI.. no co-sponsors on K1's @ HCMC... they allow them for CR1's from time to time...

How long was engagement before filing?

yeah but scott

the other day you told me i met my wife when i was still married even though we was seperated on we only chatted online and i actually met her face to face after i was divorced?so would it be better to my case to say we met f2f after i divorced and not say anyhting about the chats and in his case to show the old chats he has and let the chips fall where they may?Why give the c/o more bullets?

[ScottThuy 140]

I wouldnt tell anyone to lie to a CO...

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

I personally think there should be a due process. At the least there should be able to have a full appeal done to be sure that some bureaucrat even knows what they are doing and not depriving very legit people to be together.

I agree, and I think the guarantee should be written into the INA. I was saying that there is no Constitutional basis to argue for due process in this case. Nothing is being denied to the petitioner that would be a violation of the Constitutional guarantee of due process. That doesn't mean that Congress can't revise the INA to guarantee a petitioner a chance to appeal a decision by executive review or even the BIA. At this point, the only thing you know for sure that you can do is sue USCIS in a federal court.

I think the lawsuit has merit. I just don't think it will succeed on the due process grounds.

[luckytxn 2,263]

Agreed this ####### about the petition expired, file a new one and pay again.. that aint right...

I agree totally. Pay once and as long as those same two people are in the game that is all they pay for the visa itself. This taking them out of the game by a single bureaucrat say so is wrong.