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Krugman: We are in the early stages of a depression

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Well know fact that massive projects got the United States out of the depression. Furthermore, massive spending on projects is why countries like China and Australia are kicking azz in this global economy.

Obama didn't do this at all actually. What massive federal projects to the likes of Hoover dam was there approved?

Really? You would never guess that by the economic output data from the 1930s. There is a large body of thought (non progressive thought) which holds that Roosevelt's policies actually prolonged the depression, and the uber mobilization for WWII actually pulled the country out of the depression. But then, the US had a genuine manufacturing and farming base to actually create wealth.

As for infrastructure projects, I will refer you to a lesson from Master Yoda: "Size matters not!" :rofl: The Hoover Dam was one project that did not do squat for anything but the local (to the dam) economy at the time. Now, tons of money are being poured into highway expansion, road resurfacing, installing handicapped access sidewalk curbs and other things of this nature. None of this does diddly to stimulate job creation or local economies. It does piss away enormous amounts of money and create a ton of debt.

Data coming from China is so distorted, that it is nearly impossible to tell what is actually happening. Interestingly, one of Mao's great laments was that for all his effort, he only managed to change life from the coasts to about 150 miles inland. China's manufacturing advancement, since the 1970s, has not really moved that line much further inland.

I do not doubt for a minute that the Aussies are doing OK. If it weren't for that funky accent, they could be Americans! :rofl::rofl:

:)

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Really? You would never guess that by the economic output data from the 1930s. There is a large body of thought (non progressive thought) which holds that Roosevelt's policies actually prolonged the depression, and the uber mobilization for WWII actually pulled the country out of the depression. But then, the US had a genuine manufacturing and farming base to actually create wealth.

The US basically went through two depressions because funding on major projects was pulled back during the period. Once WWII came about, the government borrowed and pumped hundreds of billions into mass projects for the war. As you said though, the US did have a manufacturing base then, so it helped a lot. Nevertheless, it doesn't take a geniuses to realize how and why government spending during a recession can kick-start an economy. Remember, this is not the 80's stagflation.

As for infrastructure projects, I will refer you to a lesson from Master Yoda: "Size matters not!" :rofl: The Hoover Dam was one project that did not do squat for anything but the local (to the dam) economy at the time. Now, tons of money are being poured into highway expansion, road resurfacing, installing handicapped access sidewalk curbs and other things of this nature. None of this does diddly to stimulate job creation or local economies. It does piss away enormous amounts of money and create a ton of debt.

You must be from a different jersey, considering you guys probably have the shittiest roads out there period. NJ transit is also something reminiscent of the 70's abroad. Jersey alone needs a good trillion to get it into the 21st century and catch up to Canadian, Australia, European or Asian equivalent places. Projects that cannot be outsourced and generate thousands of jobs and improve the Q.O.L for people. Though, the benefits are negligible employment wise when illegal or dodgy NE union labor is used. Then again the fix your Jersey, LI, Staten Island and most other 'equivalent' places need require human oriented improvements. Hey, such improvements are cheap though.

Data coming from China is so distorted, that it is nearly impossible to tell what is actually happening. Interestingly, one of Mao's great laments was that for all his effort, he only managed to change life from the coasts to about 150 miles inland. China's manufacturing advancement, since the 1970s, has not really moved that line much further inland.

There are a range of countries that have weathered the storm well. All have pumped billions into their economy, none have done nothing and sat there like some fool claiming the market will fix itself. China is doing well now, I can only imagine where the will be at post crisis.

I do not doubt for a minute that the Aussies are doing OK. If it weren't for that funky accent, they could be Americans! :rofl::rofl:

You are from Jersey right? Hence, you would have heard your own accent right. I guess the unique characters in Jersey, Staten, Brooklyn and LI think they sound normal.

I'd say doing more than okay, since the equivalent from AUS could buy an sell property in Manhattan like people buy ####### at Jersey flee markets; let alone buy property in Jersey.

According to the Internal Revenue Service, the 400 richest American households earned a total of $US138 billion, up from $US105 billion a year earlier. That's an average of $US345 million each, on which they paid a tax rate of just 16.6 per cent.

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You are from Jersey right? Hence, you would have heard your own accent right. I guess the unique characters in Jersey, Staten, Brooklyn and LI think they sound normal.

I'd say doing more than okay, since the equivalent from AUS could buy an sell property in Manhattan like people buy ####### at Jersey flee markets; let alone buy property in Jersey.

Ooooooooooo....touchy this morning! Did you get up on the wrong side of the cot? :rofl:

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Ooooooooooo....touchy this morning! Did you get up on the wrong side of the cot? :rofl:

Yes, the Jersey side.

Dude, come on now. You guys do have a weird nasally sounding accent, even for yanks.

Edited by Booyah!

According to the Internal Revenue Service, the 400 richest American households earned a total of $US138 billion, up from $US105 billion a year earlier. That's an average of $US345 million each, on which they paid a tax rate of just 16.6 per cent.

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Yes, the Jersey side.

Dude, come on now. You guys do have a weird nasally sounding accent, even for yanks.

You are assuming that I sound like NJ because I currently reside here. You know what they say about making assumptions...

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You must be from a different jersey, considering you guys probably have the shittiest roads out there period. NJ transit is also something reminiscent of the 70's abroad.

And yet NJ has the highest taxes in the nation. Guess they need more taxes, because high taxation is doing wonders for Jersey.

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And yet NJ has the highest taxes in the nation. Guess they need more taxes, because high taxation is doing wonders for Jersey.

The tax rate alone means squat, it's what you do with the money that counts. Democrats, libs, Libertarians and repubs seem to ignore this reality. I don't know what Jersey does with its money so I cannot comment on it, however, they clearly do not spend it on infrastructure; as doesn't NYC.

The issues is also where and how are we taxing. The country does not even have a federal sales tax, which means there are massive loopholes and tax losses. When someone from one state buys from another, particularly online, zero tax is paid period. You also have a massive black economy here thanks to no GST or VAT; furthermore, people like illegal aliens pay negligible tax. Now how many hundreds of thousand of illegal aliens are there in Jersey alone? How many billions would be saved if services to them were cut and residency tested?

There are a hell of a lot of countries outside the US that are higher taxing, yet people are doing extremely well, have a 10 fold higher Q.O.L and provide with 100 fold more services. Some of the biggest differences and reasons this works is aforementioned above. On top of all that, their infrastructure, towns, cities and roads are second to none; rather than the second to third world grade [depending on the city] over here.

Edited by Booyah!

According to the Internal Revenue Service, the 400 richest American households earned a total of $US138 billion, up from $US105 billion a year earlier. That's an average of $US345 million each, on which they paid a tax rate of just 16.6 per cent.

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The country does not even have a federal sales tax, which means there are massive loopholes and tax losses. When someone from one state buys from another, particularly online, zero tax is paid period. You also have a massive black economy here thanks to no GST or VAT; furthermore, people like illegal aliens pay negligible tax. Now how many hundreds of thousand of illegal aliens are there in Jersey alone? How many billions would be saved if services to them were cut and residency tested?

And just how would a federal sales tax benefit the residents of the USA? I'm not talking about reducing income taxes (or some other tax) and replacing it with higher sales taxes. I'm referring to the sole imposition of a sales tax which doesn't exist right now. If I were to buy a set of spark plug wires from Louisiana for $99, I wouldn't pay LA or TX sales taxes. How would it benefit me to pay the extra $8 to either state?

What you call a black market economy, I call a thoroughly efficient non regulated non taxed economy. Black market economies tend to be good economies. Economies where sellers can move product better and buyers can get better deals.

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And just how would a federal sales tax benefit the residents of the USA? I'm not talking about reducing income taxes (or some other tax) and replacing it with higher sales taxes. I'm referring to the sole imposition of a sales tax which doesn't exist right now. If I were to buy a set of spark plug wires from Louisiana for $99, I wouldn't pay LA or TX sales taxes. How would it benefit me to pay the extra $8 to either state?

What you call a black market economy, I call a thoroughly efficient non regulated non taxed economy. Black market economies tend to be good economies. Economies where sellers can move product better and buyers can get better deals.

Black markets sometimes have downsides -- they attract criminal activity and can spawn criminal activity. In many places, buying on the black market can be dangerous to one's physical wellbeing!

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