LIne Item, Yay or Nay

[Obama 2012 1,714]

I'd like to see someone who would pay for an illegal's health care.

I think (at least hope) this web site would be the wrong place.

See: Hippies

[SMR 368]

To answer shortly, the bill mandates that you cannot be charged more due to your conditions/other factors. It has to be equal... In essense, everyone's premiums have to go up if yours does.

(I wonder if this applies to smokers now too.....)

How universal is this? I mean, are you allowed to adjust for age or gender? In any case, I have a huge problem with this.

I'd like to see someone who would pay for an illegal's health care.

I think (at least hope) this web site would be the wrong place.

It's easy when you put it that way. But can you really refuse care to someone who is dying? That is the question.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

How universal is this? I mean, are you allowed to adjust for age or gender? In any case, I have a huge problem with this.

No, everyone regardless of age/gendar/etc... must have the same rate for the same type of plan.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I don't know anyone who would disagree with that.

The Hippocratic Oath would disagree with that, hence doctors will render care.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

That pill is $500 because the government allows big pharma to have a monopoly protected from foreign companies and then at the same time mandates that the $500 pill be used instead of the $30 pill because the $30 pill has a 1% high risk on side effects... You'd be surprised at how many times this happens and it's really a poor part of our system.

Though, as with anything part of the problem is politicians who easily fall prey to the lobbyists.

There again, this is not a problem of 'insurance' coverage. It's a problem of the market being overly controlled.

This part sounds more like lack of regulation.

I don't dispute that some government regulations (or lack thereof) affect some aspects of healthcare pricing, but I think it's missing the big picture to suggest that it's the government's fault that a diabetic with high blood pressure can't get coverage. And I do get the connection between the price of health care and premium rates. The only way to really hold costs down is either to switch to a single-payer system, which I don't think will happen in my lifetime, or having a single entity set the maximum rates that can be charged for treatments, drugs, etc. I don't think this will happen anytime soon either. For this bill to work, many other changes need to be made (addressing the cost of medical education, is just one example), and I'm hopeful that related issues will be addressed as well.

I get that most people who oppose a universal scheme argue that health care is a paid-for service like any other; if you can afford it (or have insurance, which is not guaranteed), you get it, and if you can't, well, too bad for you. Personally, I think that position is at best selfish and at worst immoral, but I realize not everyone agrees with me. I would rather having my healthcare contributions go toward a transparent, equitable, sustainable system that will benefit both me and others. As it has been, I and my employers have been sinking money into an inefficient, inequitable profit machine that has little interest in you if you don't have piles of cash or a decent insurance plan.

[Ali G. 37]

That pill is $500 because the government allows big pharma to have a monopoly protected from foreign companies and then at the same time mandates that the $500 pill be used instead of the $30 pill because the $30 pill has a 1% high risk on side effects... You'd be surprised at how many times this happens and it's really a poor part of our system.

Though, as with anything part of the problem is politicians who easily fall prey to the lobbyists.

There again, this is not a problem of 'insurance' coverage. It's a problem of the market being overly controlled.

Again, government regulation is why this does not happen in any other first world country. You seem to ignore this little reality. Seriously, why is it that libertarians like to discuss unproven theories and causes yet totally ignore what is proven, working well and in practice abroad?

Not to mention, you contradict yourself. You fault lobbyists working for the private sector, yet in the same breath say that less government will fix this. In other words, you are saying that removing the government and leaving it to the same private sector lobbying the government will reduce and prevent such extortion. Furthermore, you advocate opening up the markets but refuse to accept why prices are lower in these countries.

I hope you are not suggesting we all switch to generic prescriptions.

Edited March 23, 2010 by Ali G.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Again, government regulation is why this does not happen in any other first world country. You seem to ignore this little reality. Seriously, why is it that libertarians like to discuss unproven theories and causes yet totally ignore what is proven, working well and in practice abroad?

Not to mention, you contradict yourself. You fault lobbyists working for the private sector, yet in the same breath say that less government will fix this. In other words, you are saying that removing the government and leaving it to the same private sector lobbying the government will reduce and prevent such extortion. Furthermore, you advocate opening up the markets but refuse to accept why prices are lower in these countries.

I hope you are not suggesting we all switch to generic prescriptions.

I have not once contradicted myself. Other nations might not let themselves be influenced by lobbyists as much, I don't know, but if you follow the money trail, they play a huge role here.

When are you leaving and going back to the nation you preach about so much?

[CDAgirlMI 51]

It's easy when you put it that way. But can you really refuse care to someone who is dying? That is the question.

Most people have morals, so the dying illegal would receive care.

But how do you stop it? Or can you?

Its a lose/lose situation....

1. We pay for health care (that includes illegals)

2. We pay for illegals if they end up in emergency & can't pay for it themselves.

Even if you regulated who is eligible for health care (National Identification card), what do you do when #2 happens?

[spookyturtle 9,466]

When are you leaving and going back to the nation you preach about so much?

:lol:

[SMR 368]

The Hippocratic Oath would disagree with that, hence doctors will render care.

The Hippocratic oath has changed as is politically convenient. It will change again if necessary.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The Hippocratic oath has changed as is politically convenient. It will change again if necessary.

Emergency care will be provided to anyone who needs it, whether legal, illegal, criminal etc. That's the way it is here.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

No, everyone regardless of age/gendar/etc... must have the same rate for the same type of plan.

What bill are you reading?

[SMR 368]

Emergency care will be provided to anyone who needs it, whether legal, illegal, criminal etc. That's the way it is here.

I understand that is the way it is now. It may not be the way it always will be.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I understand that is the way it is now. It may not be the way it always will be.

True. And we could get hit by an asteroid too, so it won't matter.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Coverage:

• Would expand coverage to 32 million Americans who are currently uninsured.

Health Insurance Exchanges:

• The uninsured and self-employed would be able to purchase insurance through state-based exchanges with subsidies available to individuals and families with income between the 133 percent and 400 percent of poverty level.
• Separate exchanges would be created for small businesses to purchase coverage -- effective 2014.
• Funding available to states to establish exchanges within one year of enactment and until January 1, 2015.

Subsidies:

• Individuals and families who make between 100 percent - 400 percent of the Federal Poverty Level (FPL) and want to purchase their own health insurance on an exchange are eligible for subsidies. They cannot be eligible for Medicare, Medicaid and cannot be covered by an employer. Eligible buyers receive premium credits and there is a cap for how much they have to contribute to their premiums on a sliding scale.

Federal Poverty Level for family of four is $22,050

Paying for the Plan:

• Medicare Payroll tax on investment income -- Starting in 2012, the Medicare Payroll Tax will be expanded to include unearned income. That will be a 3.8 percent tax on investment income for families making more than $250,000 per year ($200,000 for individuals).
• Excise Tax -- Beginning in 2018, insurance companies will pay a 40 percent excise tax on so-called "Cadillac" high-end insurance plans worth over $27,500 for families ($10,200 for individuals). Dental and vision plans are exempt and will not be counted in the total cost of a family's plan.
• Tanning Tax -- 10 percent excise tax on indoor tanning services. (You can see why this is Armageddon for Boehner )

Medicare:

• Closes the Medicare prescription drug "donut hole" by 2020. Seniors who hit the donut hole by 2010 will receive a $250 rebate.
• Beginning in 2011, seniors in the gap will receive a 50 percent discount on brand name drugs. The bill also includes $500 billion in Medicare cuts over the next decade.

Medicaid:

• Expands Medicaid to include 133 percent of federal poverty level which is $29,327 for a family of four.
• Requires states to expand Medicaid to include childless adults starting in 2014.
• Federal Government pays 100 percent of costs for covering newly eligible individuals through 2016.
• Illegal immigrants are not eligible for Medicaid.

Insurance Reforms:

• Six months after enactment, insurance companies could no longer denying children coverage based on a preexisting condition.
• Starting in 2014, insurance companies cannot deny coverage to anyone with preexisting conditions.
• Insurance companies must allow children to stay on their parent's insurance plans until age 26th.

Abortion:

• The bill segregates private insurance premium funds from taxpayer funds. Individuals would have to pay for abortion coverage by making two separate payments, private funds would have to be kept in a separate account from federal and taxpayer funds.
• No health care plan would be required to offer abortion coverage. States could pass legislation choosing to opt out of offering abortion coverage through the exchange.

**Separately, anti-abortion Democrats worked out language with the White House on an executive order that would state that no federal funds can be used to pay for abortions except in the case of rape, incest or health of the mother. (Read more here)

Individual Mandate:

• In 2014, everyone must purchase health insurance or face a $695 annual fine. There are some exceptions for low-income people.

Employer Mandate:

• Technically, there is no employer mandate. Employers with more than 50 employees must provide health insurance or pay a fine of $2000 per worker each year if any worker receives federal subsidies to purchase health insurance. Fines applied to entire number of employees minus some allowances.

Immigration:

• Illegal immigrants will not be allowed to buy health insurance in the exchanges -- even if they pay completely with their own money.

link