No Email-Only Phone & Yahoo Messenger

[Jake & Phuong 0]

I have been in contact with my fiance via phone calls and Yahoo Messenger since January 5, 2010. I have the records for the phone log but has no record of using Yahoo Messenger. We have been using this program to see each other via webcam and voice chat for hours every day. No point of writing emails or letters. I am concerning that at the time of the interview, they will ask for proofs of our communications.

I sent I-129F package on February 2 and received NOA1 on February 4. I also received NOA2 (I797) on March 11, 2010. What do you think how long it would take to the interview day?

_____________________________

12-17-2009 Met Phuong the first time via a friend

12-25-2009 Lived with me and my sons at the hotel

12-29-2009 Met her family first time (funeral)

1-2-2010 Met her family, second time

1-3-2010 Proposed to her at her friend's wedding

1-5-2010 Left VN

2-2-2010 Submitted I-129F

2-4-2010 NOA1

3-11-2010 NOA2

[ScottThuy 140]

I have been in contact with my fiance via phone calls and Yahoo Messenger since January 5, 2010. I have the records for the phone log but has no record of using Yahoo Messenger. We have been using this program to see each other via webcam and voice chat for hours every day. No point of writing emails or letters. I am concerning that at the time of the interview, they will ask for proofs of our communications.

I sent I-129F package on February 2 and received NOA1 on February 4. I also received NOA2 (I797) on March 11, 2010. What do you think how long it would take to the interview day?

_____________________________

12-17-2009 Met Phuong the first time via a friend

12-25-2009 Lived with me and my sons at the hotel

12-29-2009 Met her family first time (funeral)

1-2-2010 Met her family, second time

1-3-2010 Proposed to her at her friend's wedding

1-5-2010 Left VN

2-2-2010 Submitted I-129F

2-4-2010 NOA1

3-11-2010 NOA2

Interview may be in June... you can look to see if you have messenger set to archive.. click contacts on your messenger window and then message archive to see if anything has been saved... have you had a Dinh Hon or Dam Hoi? They will consider the speed of your relationship as a huge red flag... along with the one trip meeting/engagement...

[BinhJerome 14]

as Scott has said check your archiving preferences on yahoo, if they were not set, set them now and get as many two hour chats as possible, I would get screen shots of the two of you talking, it shows the exact date, and if you are using Yahoo, it will show the call duration as well. Then you can simply print the screen shot and you will be able to show the date, that you were both on video, and the exact number of seconds you have been talking with Yahoo voice. Every little thing will help Good luck! Jerome and Binh

[Jake & Phuong 0]

We haven't had DAM HOI yet. It is planned on July 13, 2010, which is a good day for both of us. My dad and I will be back and the tickets were purchased. She will reserve a food catering company to cater our DAM HOI. I also have 6 pages of phone record for the last two months. I'll try to set the preference on Yahoo Messenger, and hopefully, it gives me more proofs.

My wife just passed away last year. It seems like very quick for us but we have so much in common. My kids really like her as well. I don't want to wait any longer due to our tradition or any reasons and I might lose her forever. Both of my kids and I enjoyed her accompany. I am working for a government agency and my income is more than $100K/year. Hopefully, this will convince them at the time of the interview that I am not just in this for $$$$. Thanks for the suggestions. They are very helpful. Any other suggestions are welcomed.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

We haven't had DAM HOI yet. It is planned on July 13, 2010, which is a good day for both of us. My dad and I will be back and the tickets were purchased. She will reserve a food catering company to cater our DAM HOI. I also have 6 pages of phone record for the last two months. I'll try to set the preference on Yahoo Messenger, and hopefully, it gives me more proofs.

My wife just passed away last year. It seems like very quick for us but we have so much in common. My kids really like her as well. I don't want to wait any longer due to our tradition or any reasons and I might lose her forever. Both of my kids and I enjoyed her accompany. I am working for a government agency and my income is more than $100K/year. Hopefully, this will convince them at the time of the interview that I am not just in this for $$$$. Thanks for the suggestions. They are very helpful. Any other suggestions are welcomed.

When did you first meet your fiancee? How were you introduced? How many times have you been to Vietnam? Forgive me if these seem like personal questions, but the answers can have an impact on your chances of a successful interview.

When your fiancee goes to the interview, the only things the CO will know about are the things that happened before you filed your petition. The CO's in HCM are known to sometimes make a preliminary decision on a visa application before the interview takes place. Hopefully, they'll let your fiancee present evidence at the interview of things that happened after the petition was submitted, like the Dam Hoi. However, they aren't required to ask for any further evidence at the interview, and can refuse to accept evidence even if it's offered. This could put you in a position of having to force them to accept evidence in response to a 221 notice. The likelihood of this happening depends a lot on how your case looks before the interview. To be blunt, a short relationship and/or a single trip to Vietnam and/or no formal engagement ceremony and party can greatly increase the odds of a rough interview.

Your good income should help reduce the chances they'll suspect YOU of being involved in any sort of visa fraud for personal gain, presuming your LexisNexis report doesn't show that you're deep in debt or having severe money problems. Unfortunately, it won't do much to convince them that your fiancee isn't in it for the green card. For this, you need evidence of the "bona fides" that meet the consulate's somewhat strict interpretation of "a reasonable person". In other words, given the evidence presented, would "a reasonable person" conclude that the relationship was genuine, or for the purpose of evading immigration law. The consulate's imaginary "reasonable person" believes in fairy tale relationships that conform 100% to Vietnamese cultural traditions of generations past. They love to use this "reasonable person" as a straw man to blame when they deny a visa.

[BinhJerome 14]

We haven't had DAM HOI yet. It is planned on July 13, 2010, which is a good day for both of us. My dad and I will be back and the tickets were purchased. She will reserve a food catering company to cater our DAM HOI. I also have 6 pages of phone record for the last two months. I'll try to set the preference on Yahoo Messenger, and hopefully, it gives me more proofs.

My wife just passed away last year. It seems like very quick for us but we have so much in common. My kids really like her as well. I don't want to wait any longer due to our tradition or any reasons and I might lose her forever. Both of my kids and I enjoyed her accompany. I am working for a government agency and my income is more than $100K/year. Hopefully, this will convince them at the time of the interview that I am not just in this for $$$$. Thanks for the suggestions. They are very helpful. Any other suggestions are welcomed.

Hopefully you will have your Dam Hoi before your interview, but it sounds like you will have the interview first. I would figure out a way to soften the fact that you have filed a Fiancee visa for a woman without a official engagement party, this might be as easy as stating that it is the only time that your father will only be able to come at that time and it is important to all of you that he is there to share in the ceremony. The money thing is not an issue about you being able to pay her way once she is here or that you are in it for the money, but it could be used as an issue for her so quickly falling in love with you. I am sure that this is not the case, but this might send flags up for the CO. I truly feel that the biggest hurdle you will have to face is an engagement party which is a vary traditional part of any relationship in Vietnam scheduled so long after you filed for the K1 visa. This is a visa for a fiancee, a woman that you are engaged with and intend to marry within 90 days of her arrival to the United States. This is just what I see, each case is different, and almost every case has red flags to overcome, and it truly depends on the CO and how he views our suspected flags. There have been people that did not know their fiancee for even 1 month before they meet for the first time, they were engaged on the internet before their first meeting, had a very small Dam Hoi with less than 20 people, very short time together less than a week, come home file for the K1 visa, then make a second trip before or for the interview, once again stay less than a week, and get a visa, their entire relationship prior to getting approved for a visa was less than 7 months, so anything is possible, you just have to have faith and to not sweat the little things, but in the same instance prepare for the worst, this way you are not blind sided by any question. Once again Good luck Jerome and Binh

[Jake & Phuong 0]

Thanks for providing me with all good points. The reason that it takes us that long to have a DAM HOI because my sons are in school right now and I am the only one dropping and picking them up from school every day. I plan to leave US to VN on their last day of school, and her family has picked July 13 for our DAM HOI based on the luna calendar and it is the best day during my staying there. Hopefully, the CO gives her a chance to explain why. I have been back to VN so many times. Last year, after my wife's death, I was so devastated and couldn't sleep more than a month. My sister asked me to join her for a trip to VN and see if that would help my situation. I was surrounded with my relatives and friends so I was able to gain my sleep back. I typically go to VN every summer with my family (wife and kids).

The original plan was that I will wait for a year or more (my former mother in law decided for me that I couldn't remarry in three years after my wife's death) before getting married. After I came back to US, I couldn't live with the fact that we are apart and luckily, she felt the same way. Every day we are apart is a day that we lose in our lives to be together. I decided to file I-129F prior to our DAM HOI. I actually proposed to her already. Technically, she is my fiance. We have pictures together with my kids, my and her friends, and her family (at a funeral and wedding). We also have a picture showing that we intimately kissed.

I hope that all of these facts will show them that this is a true love. Again, thanks for all of the valuable inputs.

[Dang Lang Thang 0]

Thanks for providing me with all good points. The reason that it takes us that long to have a DAM HOI because my sons are in school right now and I am the only one dropping and picking them up from school every day. I plan to leave US to VN on their last day of school, and her family has picked July 13 for our DAM HOI based on the luna calendar and it is the best day during my staying there. Hopefully, the CO gives her a chance to explain why. I have been back to VN so many times. Last year, after my wife's death, I was so devastated and couldn't sleep more than a month. My sister asked me to join her for a trip to VN and see if that would help my situation. I was surrounded with my relatives and friends so I was able to gain my sleep back. I typically go to VN every summer with my family (wife and kids).

The original plan was that I will wait for a year or more (my former mother in law decided for me that I couldn't remarry in three years after my wife's death) before getting married. After I came back to US, I couldn't live with the fact that we are apart and luckily, she felt the same way. Every day we are apart is a day that we lose in our lives to be together. I decided to file I-129F prior to our DAM HOI. I actually proposed to her already. Technically, she is my fiance. We have pictures together with my kids, my and her friends, and her family (at a funeral and wedding). We also have a picture showing that we intimately kissed.

I hope that all of these facts will show them that this is a true love. Again, thanks for all of the valuable inputs.

Hi,

I am a case that file the petition before have the Dam Hoi engagement ceremony. That has been and is the main reason for my/her visa denial. As the processing rules changed, I was not even give the opportunity to appeal or rebut. My second petition is being denied for the same reason - even though I have since had the Dam Hoi.

A tactical thought for you is to delay the interview (by requesting a re-schedule) until you had the Dam Hoi. This way, you can time manage to have the interview shortly after your Dam Hoi. It is less of a gamble but still a gamble.

I should be an easy case (4th year relationship, 4 trips, clean profiles, stable financial standing, etc.) In 20/20 hindsight, I would choose the safest approach possible. (Do the Dam Hoi before all else).

Good luck and best wishes.

Edited March 18, 2010 by Dang Lang Thang

[Haonie 0]

Jake & Phuong,

Correct me if I'm wrong...base on your posted, I assume that you're Vietnamese. Here is my thoughts, and experiences.

- Your income will help you a bit at the interview

- Did you say that you've been to Vietnam several times? How many trips did you meet her in person?

- Since you and fiancee chit/chat on the Yahoo messenger, have you/she send any cards on Christmas, birthday? <== CO may asks fiancce this.

- having an interview before Dam-Hoi, this will hurt you a lots since you're Vietnamese. So far, I was only see 1 or 2 cases in this forum got the visa approved without Dam-Hoi. If its me, I'm not going to take this risk.

***At my case: We had a Dam-Hoi/Dam-Cuoi "all in one" 10 days before my wife had her interview, but I still recieved 2 blue slips.

Best wishes to both of you.

Haonie

[ScottThuy 140]

We want to look at this process as objectively as we can and ultimately the evaluation done by the CO is subjective... they do have some things that they look for..

• Quick relationship from meeting to engagement.
• Quick time from termination of previous marriage to filing petition
• # of visits and duration of meeting in person
• How you met, through friends or relatives?
• common language
• Relationship meets cultural norms, Dam Hoi, Dinh Hon, Dam Cui
• there are more things that can be considered red flags

I understand how you feel regarding the financial aspect of your filing as I am in the same boat financially, but they look at that as only one aspect of the evaluation.. This is one of the most frustrating things many here have ever gone through and HCMC is noted as one of the worst when it comes to getting loved ones to the US.

As you see from the responses, cultural norms are one thing when it comes to reality, but the consulate does not live or work in reality as we know or understand it... it would really be a ####### shoot going in there and trying to get the visa without the ceremony given the very short time of the relationship before filing. We all really wish you the best, and at the same time want you to stay positive, but keep in mind that we are dealing with HCMC and a Consular process that is very unrealistic at times.

I really have to wonder what the CO would think when Phuong mentions a xem boìi... It is customary in VN culture but I really don't think a CO would really understand the importance...

There are some things that you can do to try to address the issues that they will very likely have with your case... This is why I brought it up initially.. not to throw a dark cloud over the case, but to help shed some light on what may be a very painful process.

[Jake & Phuong 0]

I learned how to print screen with Yahoo Messenger last night and will use it as our evidences of communications. I am debating that if the interview comes earlier than my DAM HOI, then should I ask for a delay until after the ceremony as couple of you recommended? I plan to ask a local US Congressman or his staff to help in case the HCMC consulate denies our case. I am not sure how I am gonna do it but it worths a try. Do you think this is a good idea? I will go as far as I can to bring my love one here (of course, to a certain extent).

I keep seeing other people being asked to submit their timelines. Does anyone have a format that the HCMC consulate has accepted? I would like to prepare it now. Again, all of the suggestions are welcomed and appreciated.

[Anh map 2,098]

A timeline of your relationship would have beeen a good thing to include with your petition. That would give the CO some more info re: the development of your relationship. That being said, go ahead and be working on one for the interview. Understand that it may not be given a thorough look over at the time it is presented if the CO has reason to question the relationship. It would be collected along with any other evidence presented for review after the interview.

As you prepare just keep in mind that the CO's in HCMC are working in a high fraud arena. They have heard and seen it all. Try not to take it personally when they may question your "love story."

[ScottThuy 140]

I learned how to print screen with Yahoo Messenger last night and will use it as our evidences of communications. I am debating that if the interview comes earlier than my DAM HOI, then should I ask for a delay until after the ceremony as couple of you recommended? I plan to ask a local US Congressman or his staff to help in case the HCMC consulate denies our case. I am not sure how I am gonna do it but it worths a try. Do you think this is a good idea? I will go as far as I can to bring my love one here (of course, to a certain extent).

I keep seeing other people being asked to submit their timelines. Does anyone have a format that the HCMC consulate has accepted? I would like to prepare it now. Again, all of the suggestions are welcomed and appreciated.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/209481-hcmc-timeline-resource/ here is a start to the timeline thing... start now and go back to day one and work on it together so you both know every word that is in it... the timeline is a double edged sword.. it shows the ongoing relationship and also gives the CO a tool to use in quizzing the SO in an attempt to trick them or trip them up in an interview...

congressmen are limited in what they can do... call DoS @ 202-663-1225 press 1 then 0 ... they will let you know if the case is on to the consulate already (mon-fri until 5 pm est)... expect between 2 and 3 months from when they get the case until you get the interview... this can be slightly delayed by taking a little while to respond to pkt 3.. dont wait too long.... keep in mind that this is a very bureaucratic system and any changes to what they expect in scheduling or submitting docs can cause a huge delay. they like things the HCMC way and if we try to do things our way they may not turn out the way we want... If I remember correctly, Fred delayed his interview due to a medical issue or something I dont remember exactly... they ended up in AP for 271 days... but they did get approved...

Please dont look at things from the standpoint of getting denied and how it will be dealt with... work on ways to prepare her for the interview and address any red flags that exist before the interview... a short relationship will appear weak to the CO and your SO will need to prove otherwise in the interview...

Start sending post cards to each other as well as cards like those I love you cards you see in the drug store or market... this will add to the documentation of communication/relationship... you can print a log of the yahoo calls as well as the messaging with that print screen function...

[feelinglucky 1]

We haven't had DAM HOI yet. It is planned on July 13, 2010, which is a good day for both of us. My dad and I will be back and the tickets were purchased. She will reserve a food catering company to cater our DAM HOI. I also have 6 pages of phone record for the last two months. I'll try to set the preference on Yahoo Messenger, and hopefully, it gives me more proofs.

My wife just passed away last year. It seems like very quick for us but we have so much in common. My kids really like her as well. I don't want to wait any longer due to our tradition or any reasons and I might lose her forever. Both of my kids and I enjoyed her accompany. I am working for a government agency and my income is more than $100K/year. Hopefully, this will convince them at the time of the interview that I am not just in this for $$$$. Thanks for the suggestions. They are very helpful. Any other suggestions are welcomed.

JP , I thinks members have overlooked a certain silver linning in your case. As you can see the time of your NOA 2 was extremely fast, probably due to the fact that your an employed of the goverment of the US. Therefore with your security clearances, it should carry some weight. Also your petition is going to be looked differently than the general public. Your interview will be probably be scheduled sooner than normal. Also, When your fiancee make the CO aware of; if they havent already; that your a government employee just like them. They will mostly likely extended your case some sort of govermental courtesy. If you read the section on consulate reviews, you will see a post that pretains to your situation. The USC was also a government employee and got the VIP treatment.

1) not having a engagement ceremony in time for interview......logistics

2) Not having e-mails to show....... understandable

3) being engaged relatively soon........ the heart is a strange organ

Making over 100k and....a goverment employee PRICELESS !

Good Luck

[Anh map 2,098]

JP , I thinks members have overlooked a certain silver linning in your case. As you can see the time of your NOA 2 was extremely fast, probably due to the fact that your an employed of the goverment of the US. Therefore with your security clearances, it should carry some weight. Also your petition is going to be looked differently than the general public. Your interview will be probably be scheduled sooner than normal. Also, When your fiancee make the CO aware of; if they havent already; that your a government employee just like them. They will mostly likely extended your case some sort of govermental courtesy. If you read the section on consulate reviews, you will see a post that pretains to your situation. The USC was also a government employee and got the VIP treatment.

1) not having a engagement ceremony in time for interview......logistics

2) Not having e-mails to show....... understandable

3) being engaged relatively soon........ the heart is a strange organ

Making over 100k and....a goverment employee PRICELESS !

Good Luck

Can you give us a link to the review you are talking about?

A well prepared petition and interviewee are keys to success. Relying upon a hoped for professional courtesy within the 2 million federal gov't employee ranks would be less of a sure thing.