Here is a reason to own a gun

[Scott & Lai 12]

I still don't understand why this stuff is presented as though being victimized by a violent criminal is somehow a certainty.

It's the biggest fallacy out there.

Who said it was a certainty? Does the chance of it need to be 100% in order for it to be prudent to have a means to defend against it?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Who said it was a certainty? Does the chance of it need to be 100% in order for it to be prudent to have a means to defend against it?

Well you said "considering the criminals are seeking to commit a crime against me".

I admit I hijacked it a little, but still...

For me it seems prudent to not have a gun - as I said, because I think the widespread proliferation of guns has something to do with the US' high crime rate in comparison to other countries - especially in large urban, metropolitan areas.

[Marilyn. 340]

No one living a law abiding life in a gang prone are finds solace in gun ownership. From what I can tell, very few do own guns despite living in areas that are actually the most violent in US society. Do you imagine that is simply because they can not afford it?

that is us. supposedly there are about 3 gangs that have set up shop in our neighborhood... having a gun is not going to make me feel safer...

[Scott & Lai 12]

Well you said "considering the criminals are seeking to commit a crime against me".

Nice try; see post 208 for what I was referring to.

[Peikko 1,575]

Packing heat may backfire. People who carry guns are far likelier to get shot – and killed – than those who are unarmed, a study of shooting victims in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, has found.

It would be impractical – not to say unethical – to randomly assign volunteers to carry a gun or not and see what happens. So Charles Branas's team at the University of Pennsylvania analysed 677 shootings over two-and-a-half years to discover whether victims were carrying at the time, and compared them to other Philly residents of similar age, sex and ethnicity. The team also accounted for other potentially confounding differences, such as the socioeconomic status of their neighbourhood.

Despite the US having the highest rate of firearms-related homicide in the industrialised world, the relationship between gun culture and violence is poorly understood. A recent study found that treating violence like an infectious disease led to a dramatic fall in shootings and killings.

Overall, Branas's study found that people who carried guns were 4.5 times as likely to be shot and 4.2 times as likely to get killed compared with unarmed citizens. When the team looked at shootings in which victims had a chance to defend themselves, their odds of getting shot were even higher.

While it may be that the type of people who carry firearms are simply more likely to get shot, it may be that guns give a sense of empowerment that causes carriers to overreact in tense situations, or encourages them to visit neighbourhoods they probably shouldn't, Branas speculates. Supporters of the Second Amendment shouldn't worry that the right to bear arms is under threat, however. "We don't have an answer as to whether guns are protective or perilous," Branas says. "This study is a beginning."

Daniel Webster, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore, Maryland, thinks it is near-sighted to consider only the safety of gun owners and not their communities. "It affects others a heck of a lot more," he says.

Journal reference: American Journal of Public Health, DOI: 10.2105/AJPH.2008.143099

More studies of this nature would be useful.

Edited March 19, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Nice try; see post 208 for what I was referring to.

Well I wasn't talking specifically about you, it has been suggested in other threads, usually followed by:

"I hope you don't end up in a situation where you need a gun, but don't have one and have to watch your wife raped before your eyes. But i'll defend you even if the police won't"

That's been said a bunch of times too. The intended meaning is usually opposite, i.e. "I hope you end up like that so I can say I told you so".

[Scott & Lai 12]

that is us. supposedly there are about 3 gangs that have set up shop in our neighborhood... having a gun is not going to make me feel safer...

I'm much more concerned about gangs than I am about law-abiding private citizens owning guns for self-protection. The existence of gangs (who are heavily armed, btw) is a break-down of law and order; a civilized society should have zero tolerance for them.

[Peikko 1,575]

Yes indeed, gangs are dangerous and a threat to law and order, but civilians taking pot shots at them is not a credible response.

[Scott & Lai 12]

Yes indeed, gangs are dangerous and a threat to law and order, but civilians taking pot shots at them is not a credible response.

Civilians would have no need for an armed response if the authorities had both the will and the means to eliminate the gangs.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Civilians would have no need for an armed response if the authorities had both the will and the means to eliminate the gangs.

Isn't that the point that was made earlier? - That the "armed response" provides a false sense of security, because even if you *do* pull your gun and even you *do* shoot a gang member menacing you and yours, your days are numbered.

People should surely be holding their local governments to account for not providing proper law enforcement. That would be a more worthy use of time, surely.

[justashooter 430]

Yes in bold society in the UK is simply less violent than in the US, well done.

in the UK you are not dealing with hispanic MS13 based drug traffickers. this single group is directly responsible for 80% of US homicides involving firearms.

[justashooter 430]

More studies of this nature would be useful.

same BS study tactics in which violent offenders shot by cops and other violent offenders are grouped with the general populace. flawed analysis required to come to the predetermined agenda driven conclusion.

truth is, bad people are gonna get shot, either by cops, or more likely, by other bad people. we all know the truth, no matter how hard the liberal agenda tries to hide it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

A few pearls of wisdom, Shooter^TM?

[CDAgirlMI 51]

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Lovely. What kind of person does one have to be to peddle such a piece of disingenuous rubbish.

Scumworthy. You should be ashamed of yourself.