Dual American/German Citizenship (Beibehaltungsgenehmigung)

[ravenscroft 3]

Hi everyone,

This is a very specific question related to obtaining US citizenship while also retaining German citizenship. We are currently in the RoC process, but I want to make sure that we have the timing correct so that we could apply for citizenship at the 3 year minus 3 month mark. As I understand, it is possible (US law complications aside) as long as you get permission from the German government beforehand through the Beibehaltungsgenehmigung process. Also, you must prove that you have strong ties to Germany and have a strong argument for keeping the citizenship. This process may take some time and we want to start the process sooner rather than later.

I am hoping that some kind person can share what happened when they went through this process, the evidence that they used, and anything that we should watch out for. Feel free to send a private message. By the way, I am the USC and don't speak German.

Thank you so much!

[Steffi 0]

I just sent you a PM about my process (or rather to your wife in german, so she'll have to read it), but I wanted to add that it took approx. 6 months for me to get the Beibehaltungsgenehmigung.

My timeline:

November 25, 2008: Beibehaltungsgenehmigung (BBG) to Atlanta Consulate

December 1, 2008: Pre-denial by Atlanta Consulate

March 9, 2009: Lawyer submits BBG to Atlanta Consulate

September 4, 2009: Bundesverwaltungsamt approval of BBG

September 30, 2009: Pick up BBG from Atlanta Consulate

[ravenscroft 3]

Thank you so much for the information Steffi. It is really helpful. It looks like it might be worth it to work with a lawyer from the outset. Hopefully they won't charge too much for just submitting the form that we fill out. Did the German government charge you again for the second submission?

[Steffi 0]

No, thankfully they didn't charge for the second submission. As a courtesy the consulate checks your application before sending it on to the Bundesverwaltungsamt (at least they did for me). If they deem your case to be too weak they'll return it to you so that you can strengthen your arguments and re-submit it. Once the consulate sends it on to the Bundesverwaltungsamt (with their recommendation) is when it counts. You actually don't pay the fee until your application is approved (or I guess denied). So I had to submit proof of payment to pick up the certificate.

[Silke 1]

I applied for my "Beibehaltungsgenehmigung" in August of last year and was approved 4 months later.

Here's my timeline:

08/03/2009 submitted application to German consulate in L.A.

09/01/2009 the Bundesverwaltungsamt in Cologne received my application

11/20/2009 approval letter was issued

01/29/2010 picked up certificate at German consulate in L.A.

By the way, I did not hire a lawyer and handled all the paperwork myself. My ties to Germany: family, friends, regular trips to Germany, German bank account, German high school diploma, MA degree from German university. My main reason for becoming a US citizen: I'm an only child and will either have to sponsor my parents in order to take care of them or will have to move back to Germany for an extended period of time (both scenarios would require me to be a US citizen).

Good luck!

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

After a long period of careful preparation, I'm at it right now.

The problem is to prove why one would want to remain a German citizen and become a USC at the same time. Voting? Doesn't count? Actually, none of the real reasons count. "I live in the US for 25 years now and have 5 children in school here" doesn't count. One has to prove what is basically nonsense, so the overwhelming amount of applications are "constructed" in a way that the applicant claims actual real life disadvantages now (not potentially at some point) when remaining a LPR, in most cases when wanting to apply for a job that requires US citizenship, again "most likely" due to security concerns.

You should submit the application not later than 4 or 5 months before filing the N-400 to avoid rescheduling. The by far best source for this is the Yahoo group "ZweiPaesse."

Edited February 12, 2010 by Just Bob

[ravenscroft 3]

Thanks Steffi, Silke, and Bob for the information.

Just to be safe, we are going to consult with a New York-based, German immigration attorney that we know of. It looks like we have at least 3-4 months before we would need to submit ours. We now wish we didn't close her bank account... it didn't seem useful at the time. However, we go back often enough that it might be good to keep some money there in euros.

Bob,

Good luck with your submission. Let me know how it goes.

[Steffi 0]

You should submit the application not later than 4 or 5 months before filing the N-400 to avoid rescheduling. The by far best source for this is the Yahoo group "ZweiPaesse."

You also have 2 years once you're issued the BBG to get US citizenship, so personally I'd recommend waiting to file for the N-400 until you receive the BBG - otherwise you could risk loosing your german citizenship! The N-400 process only took 3.5 months for me, so there's plenty of time within those 2 years.

[kraebs 0]

Noted from Ravencsoss post on 11 Feb a comment about a NY Immigration attorney. We are looking for such a profesional, Would it be possible to get name, adress and phone number. Thanks, Kraebs

[refusa 0]

...it's the swearing in ceremony that let's you lose your German citizenship if you do not have a Beibehaltungsgenehmigung, not the N-400.

I hired an Attorney (www.beibehaltung.com) for my Beibehaltungsantrag and it took only 3 months to get it.

[Susanne 0]

Hi everyone,

so I have to get my Beibehaltungsgenehmigung going and am really at a loss. I cannot think of good reasons why I want to keep the german citizenship. well I can think of a lot of things but they don;t seem to count.

Any suggestions?? My husband is not in the military and I'm an exercise therapist so government jobs with security clearance is out too

Susanne

[Jemmi 3]

Susanne your best bet is to join the Yahoo group "ZweiPaesse. you find all the information you need there and they will help you too.

good luck.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Hi everyone,

so I have to get my Beibehaltungsgenehmigung going and am really at a loss. I cannot think of good reasons why I want to keep the german citizenship. well I can think of a lot of things but they don;t seem to count.

Any suggestions?? My husband is not in the military and I'm an exercise therapist so government jobs with security clearance is out too

Susanne

Susi,

I used to be the driving force of ZweiPaesse for years, have personally built 64 BBG applications out of thin air, but I have since retracted from the group and only look in once in a while. But I'll give you my 2 cents anyway, the no BS way.

Nobody gives a rat's behind why you want to keep your German citizenship. I wanted to keep mine because (1) if the sh*t ever hits the fan here, I can go to Germany and say "I'm hungry and cold. I have nothing. I'm a German citizen, help me!" The next day I'll have medical attention, an apartment, food and dry clothes. I earned this by paying into the system. (2) Because I may consider retiring in the South of France or Northern Italy and having a passport from an EU country makes that possible. I actually have 2.

In order to get approved, you'll need to accomplish 2 things:

1) show remaining ties to the Fatherland. That's easy if you grew up there and have family remaining, perhaps a bank account, and a retirement account.

2) show that you would suffer discrimination as a foreigner living in the U.S. The by a wide margin best way to do that is finding a job application for which you qualify, which however requires you to be a US citizen. So if you have two arms, two hands, and are not totally retarded, you can work a lot of jobs, from TSA drones touching people, to zoo helper touching monkeys, all the way to a forest assistant, picking up trash. A worker cannot seek employment as a therapist, but a therapist can seek employment in the forest, because the air is so healthy there. The guys in Köln are on our side, yet they have to play by the rules. So if you can find two or three jobs for which you are qualified, but that require you to be a US citizen, you can do this easily. If you live in California but the job is in Alaska, use the phrase "zudem bietet eine örtliche Veränderung einen zusätzlichen Anreiz."

The BBG process is a game, and if you want to win, you'll need to know the rules and play accordingly.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Brother Hesekiel

[Rolf68 0]

Hi Steffi,

I read your comments with great interest. I am also living in Atlanta and just getting started on the BBG process. After reading through some of the online forums I am thinking about hiring a lawyer to save time and spare me some headaches. I saw that you also hired a lawyer.

Would you mind sharing what you paid as fees and who you used?

Thanks a lot.

I just sent you a PM about my process (or rather to your wife in german, so she'll have to read it), but I wanted to add that it took approx. 6 months for me to get the Beibehaltungsgenehmigung.

My timeline:

November 25, 2008: Beibehaltungsgenehmigung (BBG) to Atlanta Consulate

December 1, 2008: Pre-denial by Atlanta Consulate

March 9, 2009: Lawyer submits BBG to Atlanta Consulate

September 4, 2009: Bundesverwaltungsamt approval of BBG

September 30, 2009: Pick up BBG from Atlanta Consulate

[ebbrooky 1]

I've been reading through this forum and would like to share my experience.

I was born and raised in Germany and moved to America in 1985. I'm married to an American, and my children have both US and German Citizenship. I needed to become an American citizen because my job required that I have US Citizenship to work on certain things. I made an appointment with the Consulate in NYC in Feb 2012, and at this appointment I was interviewed and turned in my application for Beibehaltungsgenehmigung. During the interview, they seemed most interested in verifying that I still speak German with a native tongue (my German is not perfect as I don't use it everyday, but I can still speak it). I provided them with the contacts of my family back in Germany (Father/siblings/grandparent), as well as explained that I return to Germany every year or two to visit. In May 2012, I received written notified in the mail that my Beibehaltungsgenehmigung was approved and given the instructions on how to wire payment to a bank in Germany so I could pick up the retention certificate. I setup a second appointment, and in early June 2012 I received the document.

I did not use an attorney, and I don't think one is required as long as you have a) family back in Germany or a significant tie to the homeland, b) speak German, and c)a valid reason for attaining American citizenship. All in all, I found the process to be fairly easy. Hope this helps all that are looking to apply. Tschuss!