I'm "African American"

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

No Gary, I am not against education (thanks for twisting my words - I will do my level best to continue to twist yours, seeing as you like it so much). I am however against crackpot plans pulled out of someone's backside that suggest that the need for welfare can be eliminated merely by tying it to education. This cannot be done without first addressing inequalities in the education system - as it would unfairly disadvantage people from lower performing school districts.

I do not offer easy solutions to difficult problems. There are none. The problem is that government always has the "easy solution" that isn't a solution at all, but IS more government. I would certainly be in faovr of imporving education as needed, where needed. I think the return on investment would be so great as to easily offset any initial cost (while we are still supporting the welfare system) but it is a path to follow. A way to improve the situation, not just carry on the status quo of generation after generation of underclass.

Education is not the only solution as it is not the only problem, but it IS a keystone. And it is something you cannot go wrong doing. If my idea doesn't work, what is the downside? What is the downside to educating people? It IS a way to give young people the pathway to do better things, to SEE they can do better things, to make better choices because they are educated and can see that if they stay out of trouble there IS a future for them and their children. But continuing to feed a system that only enslaves people and gives them no possible means of escape is just silly...and racist.

I don't read any other solutions being offered, any other ideas, but I see people trying to belittle the idea of education. It simply cannot be a bad idea to educate people.

Maybe it will fail and we will have highly educated people on welfare...what do you think? BSMEs and MBAs collecting welfare and living in the ghettos. Shooting up crack cocaine when they aren't running business. Mothers with teaching degrees and nurses credentials, with a 70% illegitimate birth rate. D'ya think? Really?

[FortLaudy 10]

I would like to see the government pay for education rather than welfare. I suspect education is cheaper.

Right on again! Why isn't there such a big out cry for free tertiary education in this country is my question...

About the business thing. My husband has his own business, neither of his parents have a degree, he was not born with the silver spoon in his mouth, it's about hard work and a good idea and being willing to take the gamble/plunge to run with that idea, some business absolutely do not need huge amounts of capital. We're completely debt free, not wealthy by any means, but completely independent and very proud of it, not expecting or even willing to take any free handouts from anyone. I truly believe that anyone who is willing to take the long hard road in life Will succeeed.

Gene: The kid who came from a bad family situation and ended up in a life of crime and now wanting welfare? Please gimme a break... there are Many people who come out of situations like that and succeed in life. I've done a lot of volunteer work and children's homes and shelters, some people grab the opportunities and resources around them and make the most of it despite their background, others just don't and choose the easy road.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I'm sure that sounds great and you and Gary can clap yourselves on the back for single-handedly saving society over the internet.

Yet what I am wondering about is what happens to a kid from an abusive background who gets into trouble with the law, kicked out of his home, and as a result falls behind in his studies and doesn't graduate. Did that kid have as good a chance at life as the kid from the rich, middle-class family who didn't want for anything?

So you take that problem kid and you tell him that because he didn't graduate high school that he cannot have any sort of government assistance. Sounds like the fast track to a life of crime doesn't it...

You see, this system you've cooked up in your little brains sounds great until you have to apply it to real life.

If you expect me to invent a syatem to make sure no one falls into the gutter or makes mistakes...it isn't going to happen. I think the system would be beneficial for millions more people. One of our most cherished rights is the right to FAIL. Without it there is no chance of success.

It is a simple fact that people on welfare are not well educated. I am not speaking of the IT professional that is laid off and collects unemployment for a few months, that is not welfare, he isn't there for long. I am talking about welfare, generational wlefare, it simply does not exist amoung the educated. The two are p

[Danno 1,228]

Do you know how to actually run a business, or all that goes into setting one up? Do you know how much money you would need, or the success failure rates of new business'? It really isn't as simple as you would like to think.

While it's true you are not going to start a department store chain very easily you need not roll your eyes because you could not be more wrong about "starting a business" in general.

I have seen even Mexicans with nothing come to my city and start countless businesses on shoe-string budgets.

We have Produce stands, clothing shops, small cafes.

We have countless Start ups in construction, landscaping, vending services and retail shops.

Hispanics are fairly new in this area (at least in the numbers we now see) and I can tell you most of these folks have started businesses right in black neighborhoods.

While I am 100% against Illegals I respect anyone who has a little innovation and good work ethic.

I don't care if it is 90 degrees out you will see one of these guys pushing a little ice cream cart around.

You can laugh at a Hot dog stand if you want but for many people, it is one step to owning a eatery one day.

Don't be part of the "defeatist" crowd, and don't make excuses for people who don't take advantage of the opportunities... small though they be.

[FortLaudy 10]

Don't be part of the "defeatist" crowd, and don't make excuses for people who don't take advantage of the opportunities... small though they be.

Bravo. I now officially run the "no excuses" campaign

[Nikita2Charles 33]

Don't you think that's a Racist comment, that's why i mentioned earlier, it's a question of MINDSET

So if i read you correctly by your assumption, BLACK PEOPLE ARE INFERIOR AND CAN"T GOVERN OR TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.

You mean to tell me YOUR ANCESTORS WERE INVITED TO COME TO SOUTH AFRICA? THE AFRICAN BROUGHT APARTHEID UPON THEMSELVES, and THEY WERE BETTER OFF UNDER APARTHEID?

Take a good look at what happened in Zimbabwe as you mentioned it, it reminds me of what happened to Haiti after they got their independence from France. The anger and animosity is there, instead of working with the people, they do everything withing their power to bring them down, by saying they can't take care of themselve, so i guess it's their main reason behind the colonization.

I rather DIE than live under slavery. My ancestors did, there's nothing sweet like having your own Freedom, your own country, controlling your own destiny even when all other forces are working against you.

Maybe think of yourself as a TRUE AFRICAN whose been colonized, and got treated like Sh!t, then try a little empathy and Honestly tell me if you would feel the same way.

You're 100% correct about that, no doubt. If I had my way all the Europeans would be out of Africa. Period. But, look at what effect it has on South Africa, and look even closer at their neighbor, Zimbabwe, once the breadbasket of Africa now worth less than #######, affirmative action causes more harm than good.

Edited February 10, 2010 by Nikita2Charles

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I do not offer easy solutions to difficult problems. There are none. The problem is that government always has the "easy solution" that isn't a solution at all, but IS more government. I would certainly be in faovr of imporving education as needed, where needed. I think the return on investment would be so great as to easily offset any initial cost (while we are still supporting the welfare system) but it is a path to follow. A way to improve the situation, not just carry on the status quo of generation after generation of underclass.

Education is not the only solution as it is not the only problem, but it IS a keystone. And it is something you cannot go wrong doing. If my idea doesn't work, what is the downside? What is the downside to educating people? It IS a way to give young people the pathway to do better things, to SEE they can do better things, to make better choices because they are educated and can see that if they stay out of trouble there IS a future for them and their children. But continuing to feed a system that only enslaves people and gives them no possible means of escape is just silly...and racist.

I don't read any other solutions being offered, any other ideas, but I see people trying to belittle the idea of education. It simply cannot be a bad idea to educate people.

Maybe it will fail and we will have highly educated people on welfare...what do you think? BSMEs and MBAs collecting welfare and living in the ghettos. Shooting up crack cocaine when they aren't running business. Mothers with teaching degrees and nurses credentials, with a 70% illegitimate birth rate. D'ya think? Really?

As I said, there is nothing wrong with educating people, but there are problems with the education system that would make a performance based welfare system, rather questionable to say the least.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Right on again! Why isn't there such a big out cry for free tertiary education in this country is my question...

About the business thing. My husband has his own business, neither of his parents have a degree, he was not born with the silver spoon in his mouth, it's about hard work and a good idea and being willing to take the gamble/plunge to run with that idea, some business absolutely do not need huge amounts of capital. We're completely debt free, not wealthy by any means, but completely independent and very proud of it, not expecting or even willing to take any free handouts from anyone. I truly believe that anyone who is willing to take the long hard road in life Will succeeed.

Its nice that you believe that - but its a bit Walt Disney.

Most do require huge amounts of startup capital - unless your business idea is to be a window washer.

Gene: The kid who came from a bad family situation and ended up in a life of crime and now wanting welfare? Please gimme a break... there are Many people who come out of situations like that and succeed in life. I've done a lot of volunteer work and children's homes and shelters, some people grab the opportunities and resources around them and make the most of it despite their background, others just don't and choose the easy road.

My point is that tying educational performance to welfare makes a judgement on a person's failure to perform academically, regardless of the reasons for it. The assumption being made is that people are just too lazy to work hard in school. That may well be true of some people, but it isn't fair to punish people who start their lives as down and outs through no fault of their own.

[mawilson 2,133]

Its nice that you believe that - but its a bit Walt Disney.

Most do require huge amounts of startup capital - unless your business idea is to be a window washer.

Define "huge". Most do not require more than one can save or borrow.

What makes you say it's impossible? Have you actually tried?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Define "huge". Most do not require more than one can save or borrow.

What makes you say it's impossible? Have you actually tried?

What makes you say I said its impossible.

I never said it was impossible.

[The_Dude 1,142]

While it's true you are not going to start a department store chain very easily you need not roll your eyes because you could not be more wrong about "starting a business" in general.

I have seen even Mexicans with nothing come to my city and start countless businesses on shoe-string budgets.

We have Produce stands, clothing shops, small cafes.

We have countless Start ups in construction, landscaping, vending services and retail shops.

Hispanics are fairly new in this area (at least in the numbers we now see) and I can tell you most of these folks have started businesses right in black neighborhoods.

While I am 100% against Illegals I respect anyone who has a little innovation and good work ethic.

I don't care if it is 90 degrees out you will see one of these guys pushing a little ice cream cart around.

You can laugh at a Hot dog stand if you want but for many people, it is one step to owning a eatery one day.

Don't be part of the "defeatist" crowd, and don't make excuses for people who don't take advantage of the opportunities... small though they be.

Your assesment is both naive and simplistic. But you keep your head in the sand.

[mawilson 2,133]

What makes you say I said its impossible.

I never said it was impossible.

You said "Walt Disney".

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You said "Walt Disney".

Yes I did.

[mawilson 2,133]

Yes I did.

Implying she was naïve in her thinking that one could start a business without a huge amount of capital.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Implying she was naïve in her thinking that one could start a business without a huge amount of capital.

Yes, implying she is naive - but not just in that post. Read back a few pages if you care to.

Seriously Mark, there's nothing here for you to play with. Do yourself a favour and just don't bother.