I'm "African American"

[FortLaudy 10]

affirmative action

In the U.S., the effort to improve the employment and educational opportunities of women and members of minority groups through preferential treatment in job hiring, college admissions, the awarding of government contracts, and the allocation of other social benefits. First undertaken at the federal level following passage of the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964, affirmative action was designed to counteract the lingering effects of generations of past discrimination. The main criteria for inclusion in affirmative action programs are race, sex, ethnic origin, religion, disability, and age. The Supreme Court of the United States placed important limitations on affirmative action programs in its 1978 ruling in Regents of the University of California v. Bakke; several subsequent Supreme Court decisions (e.g., Adarand Constructors v. Pena in 1995 and Texas v. Hopwood in 1996) imposed further restrictions. In 1996 California voters passed Proposition 209, which prohibited government agencies and institutions from discriminating against or giving preferential treatment to individuals or groups on the basis of race, sex, colour, ethnicity, or national origin. Similar measures were subsequently passed in other states. In 2003, in two landmark rulings involving admission to the University of Michigan and its law school, the U.S. Supreme Court reaffirmed the constitutionality of affirmative action but ruled that race could not be the preeminent factor in such decisions.

Light at the end of the tunnel !

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Does anyone honestly think that the "best qualified" candidate for a job will always get the position?

You can have a first class resume, but if you're an arsehole or can't get along with the people you're interviewing with - then you can't be surprised if you don't get employed.

Has no-one ever trumped up their resume to get a job ahead of candidates with better paper qualifications? Its not unheard of... hiring decisions aren't exactly made on the basis of scientific criteria...

Good points...except how does the arsehole get a first class resume? Someone had to hire him and why would the arsehole be the best guy for the job?

Selling yourself is like selling anything else and poresnting yourself in a way favorable to the job being offered is indeed a bonafide occupational quality. Simply lying on a resume is not, but highlighting a part of a previous job that you actually did, even though it wasn't your main job description, to note your experience in that area for a new job is good salesmanship, not "trumping up". Has anyone ever lost a job to someone that was better at marketing themselves? Sure, they deserved to lose the job if they couldn't market themselves better than the next guy.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

but that should be what all strive for. sure, one can trump up a resume, but one is also putting their neck on the block should that info be discovered to be false. i've known of people to be terminated years later for having a false resume.

I'm not talking about lying, but its pretty common to make things you've done sound more impressive than they are.

[FortLaudy 10]

People get discriminated all the time based on just about any reason you can come up with, disqualifying someone at being able to apply for a job based on race is absolutely BS... merit is all it should be, no matter how tall/short/what color/race/religion the person is, not like that in modelling , but so be it. Why is it so acceptable to be racist against whites?

[Ban Hammer 14,813]

I'm not talking about lying, but its pretty common to make things you've done sound more impressive than they are.

which is why most places i know verify employment history and ask questions.

[Nikita2Charles 33]

if you look at the history of affirmative actions you will see who benefited the most from the law

WHITE WOMEN.

I don't think anybody wants to get hired just because they are black, white, Asian or whatever label we want to attach to anybody.

What's important is whether you are WHITE< BLACK< ASIAN, you have the same chances to get the Job. Do you think there's no black guy who can't do a VP, a CEO Job, why most of the board of directors are mostly whites. Given the clanish mentality of a lot of folks, we tend to bring people who is like us, speak like us, as such people will try to hire people that are just like them, therefore discriminating against certain group.

Like i said earlier in the previous post, this is not just a black and white issue, at work you have some of the managers who hires mostly people from their own background, is that Racist or Clanish

Or when someone is asking you, Oh, i didn't know you guys study Physics.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

People get discriminated all the time based on just about any reason you can come up with, disqualifying someone at being able to apply for a job based on race is absolutely BS... merit is all it should be, no matter how tall/short/what color/race/religion the person is, not like that in modelling , but so be it. Why is it so acceptable to be racist against whites?

Merit is all it should be, but what happens when you have two great candidates of different races? How does one make the determination as to who should get the job?

What happens when you realize that 95% of your workforce is white? I wouldn't dispute that those people aren't qualified on merit, but speaking purely hypothetically how does an organization get into the state of affairs where nearly all its workers are white? Doesn't that sort of suggest that there's some sort of bias going on?

Edited February 9, 2010 by Gene Hunt

[FortLaudy 10]

if you look at the history of affirmative actions you will see who benefited the most from the law

WHITE WOMEN.

I don't think anybody wants to get hired just because they are black, white, Asian or whatever label we want to attach to anybody.

What's important is whether you are WHITE< BLACK< ASIAN, you have the same chances to get the Job. Do you think there's no black guy who can't do a VP, a CEO Job, why most of the board of directors are mostly whites. Given the clanish mentality of a lot of folks, we tend to bring people who is like us, speak like us, as such people will try to hire people that are just like them, therefore discriminating against certain group.

Like i said earlier in the previous post, this is not just a black and white issue, at work you have some of the managers who hires mostly people from their own background, is that Racist or Clanish

Or when someone is asking you, Oh, i didn't know you guys study Physics.

So if that's the way things work, it's pretty natural imo, so for that reason more black people should be incredibly motivated to start business and invent stuff and excel so that they can take care of their own peeps and hire them, right?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

which is why most places i know verify employment history and ask questions.

As I said, I'm not talking about lying, but rather the common practice of putting a gloss on otherwise mundane things. If it gets you in the door and an interview - that's the goal.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Shani will always be my favorite African princess.

[FortLaudy 10]

Merit is all it should be, but what happens when you have two great candidates? How does one make the determination as to who should get the job?

What happens when you realize that 95% of your workforce is white? I wouldn't dispute that those people aren't qualified on merit, but speaking purely hypothetically how does an organization get into the state of affairs where nearly all its workers are white? Doesn't that sort of suggest that there's some sort of bias going on?

"clan mentality" someone called it I guess. Honestly, if I was the black guy, I would not want to work for that company, I'd go start my own business, and not even Want to participate in a program that forces this company to hire me because of the color of my skin, way too embarrassing!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

"clan mentality" someone called it I guess. Honestly, if I was the black guy, I would not want to work for that company, I'd go start my own business, and not even Want to participate in a program that forces this company to hire me because of the color of my skin, way too embarrassing!

I don't know about you, but usually when a person doesn't get a job - you don't get to find out why.

Its not like you get a letter that says "we really liked you, but we had to hire to this black person instead".

Big companies have some responsibility to ensure that there isn't bias in their hiring decisions. That shouldn't translate to "we hire a poorly qualified black guy at the expense of the highly qualified white guy". I doubt it works that way.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Gene Hunt

[FortLaudy 10]

I don't know about you, but usually when a person doesn't get a job - you don't get to find out why.

Its not like you get a letter that says "we really liked you, but we had to hire to this black person instead".

Big companies have some responsibility to ensure that there isn't bias in their hiring decisions. That shouldn't translate to "we hire a poorly qualified black guy at the expense of the highly qualified white guy". I doubt it works that way.

I cannot give you facts about this happening in the US, but this issue is very close to heart for me. White South Africans are leaving South Africa in droves because of this... Some are having to close their businesses, they are forced by the government and affirmative action to hire certain people and not others, these people are 100% not qualified and the companies are closing up shop and people are emmigrating in droves because they can not make a living.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006066

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I cannot give you facts about this happening in the US, but this issue is very close to heart for me. White South Africans are leaving South Africa in droves because of this... Some are having to close their businesses, they are forced by the government and affirmative action to hire certain people and not others, these people are 100% not qualified and the companies are closing up shop and people are emmigrating in droves because they can not make a living.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110006066

I guess the white South Africans are getting a taste of what they dished out during Apartheid. Its hard to be terribly sympathetic.

[FortLaudy 10]

I guess the white South Africans are getting a taste of what they dished out during Apartheid. Its hard to be terribly sympathetic.

You're 100% correct about that, no doubt. If I had my way all the Europeans would be out of Africa. Period. But, look at what effect it has on South Africa, and look even closer at their neighbor, Zimbabwe, once the breadbasket of Africa now worth less than #######, affirmative action causes more harm than good.