How would you respond?

[SMOKE 1,426]

You said it, not me.

That's exactly what does happen in many team sports, others make up for the things you can't do particularly well yourself. Just like in society.

no you said i said

I think Smoke has one huge chip on his shoulder, that's for sure. How it got there? Who knows, but not allowing your kids to participate in team sports because other's in the team might 'let the team down' is pretty facile.

i said

team sports create a false sense that others will make up for your short comings

[Peikko 1,575]

no you said i said

i said

team sports create a false sense that others will make up for your short comings

It's not a false sense. In team sports, you do rely on other people to take on the roles that you are not very good at yourself. Not everyone on a soccer team is a striker. That's what team work is all about. Relying on others in order to get something done that you could not do alone.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[~happyndinlove~ 540]

Fellow vj's....are you aware that vj does offer a chat room? You know...instant messaging, rapid fire debate in a (somewhat) private environment?

Or is it the public display of 1's intellectual prowess that keeps the (off the op topic) debate flaming?

a derivative form of voyerism perhaps?

hmmmmm....ok...forget I even mentioned the vj chat room, my mistake...sorry.

[Peikko 1,575]

What you said was actually more facile even than what I said you said.

[jundp 191]

As a former coach, when someone was cut from my team it was handled thusly:

You did not make the team. Here are the reasons why: x, x, and x.

If I thought they had a chance of improving: I would like to see you work on these things and try out again in the Spring.

If I thought they just didn't have what it takes: Maybe this isn't really the best fit for you, but you are welcome to work on these things and try out again next time.

I did have one girl who tried out and didn't make the cut three seasons in a row. She constantly improved and worked her butt off and she made the team her senior year. She still could have used some improvement but I was incredibly impressed with her drive. She became my assistant coach for a year when she was in college.

As a parent I would say number two, but with alternative suggestions.

I believe very strongly in team sports, but I also believe in individuality and that though there's no "I" in "team" you have to each put forth your best.

[Peikko 1,575]

Fellow vj's....are you aware that vj does offer a chat room? You know...instant messaging, rapid fire debate in a (somewhat) private environment?

Or is it the public display of 1's intellectual prowess that keeps the (off the op topic) debate flaming?

a derivative form of voyerism perhaps?

hmmmmm....ok...forget I even mentioned the vj chat room, my mistake...sorry.

Oh, here we go, yet another person who feels that the only rules for VJ OT are their rules. It is what it is.

[~happyndinlove~ 540]

Oh, here we go, yet another person who feels that the only rules for VJ OT are their rules. It is what it is.

You dont quite catch dry wit huh? lighten up and ..you guys shud get a room! nther joke mc..don't get urself too worked up bout it!

wait a sec...? Did I hit a soft spot with you? hmmmmmm? awwww...I'm blushing now.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

These kind of exchanges generally only make the accuser look like an arsehole.

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

Imagine that you have a teenager that made the high school basketball team. Your son/daughter goes to practice today and the coach calls them aside to tell them they've been cut from the team.

Your son/daughter later tells you they've been cut from the team. Which of the following responses would you most likely give?

Your post does illustrate very well some of the common mistakes that parents make

1. You're getting yourself all worked up over nothing. The world isn't going to come to some end because you didn't make the team. Forget about it.

Translation, you are getting worked up over something that is nothing to me. Obviously, it is something to the child or they wouldn't be worked up. A common theme in all the choices here is that there is never an opportunity for the child to talk about what they are feeling or what might be the real reason that they are getting worked up. So choice 1. could be expressed as "Stop having an emotion in my vicinity. It makes me recall emotions I'm uncomfortable with. So please shut up and forget about it."

2. Life isn't always fair, but you have to learn how to roll with the punches.

Life teaches this lesson pretty well without anyone ever having to say it. The child doesn't care if life is fair or unfair at the moment and whether life is fair or unfair doesn't change how I might feel about a situation. Many parents try to teach these trite lessons as a substitute for parenting. Think about a time when you were upset and disapointed by something like the loss of a love. How much did you want someone to explain to you that life isn't fair? How strong would your urge be to knock the teeth out of the next guy who told you life wasn't fair? Same for your kids.

3. Why do you think you were dropped? Were the other players better than you? What are you going to do now?

Who cares? We think that we have to teach some profound inventory taking of shortcomings to our children. Were the other players better than you? You might as well say, "You suck, don't you?!" When we are upset, we aren't any good at objectively evaluating the situation. Research shows that if we are indeed incompetent in a certain area, we also lack the competence to evaluate our own incompetence. We tend to believe we are great at it or at least highly overestimate our competence. So this line of reasoning goes nowhere except, "Can I make it worse for you?"

4. Try to see it from the coach's point of view. He wants to produce a winning team. It must have been tough for him to decide who to keep and who to let go.

Think again about someone who broke up with you. Hey buddy, try to look at it from her point of view. She wanted a winner who could make something of his life. It must have been hard for her to decide to accept that you were such a loser and harder still to face you and dump you so she could be on a winning team! See! Don't you feel better! I'll bet you're feeling really motivated to go out and make some positive life changes now, eh? The message your child will receive form this approach is, "I don't really care about your feelings. In fact they are making me uncomfortable. But the coach, I'm really into his feelings! Think what it must have been like for an adult to have to go through this! I'll bet he's home crying now. Let's go buy him some ice cream so he feels better!"

5. Oh, you poor thing. I'm so sorry for you. You tried so hard to make the team, but you just weren't good enough. Now all the other kids know. I'll bet you could just die of embarrassment.

Why the compulsion to tell the child he or she isn't wasn't good enough. Why not just deal with what is happening for them. It is fine to acknowledge that they worked so hard and that you understand how disappointing it is to work so hard and not accomplish what you set out to do. Why the compulsive rubbing face in dirt stuff? Now all the other kids know, now you'll be embarrassed, now we'll make fun of you every night at dinner. Have I mentioned how dysfunctional our family is and how you'll run to the farthest college you can find the moment you graduate form high school? Lovely choice.

6. Did you ever consider that the real reason you were cut from the team was that your heart wasn't in your playing? I think that on a subconscious level you didn't want to be on the team, so you messed up on purpose.

Someone must have really just emotionally battered you. I am sorry about that but each choice, even when you start out well, ends with rubbing the kids face in their failure and ignoring how the kid actually feels about the whole thing. I suppose you could continue on this path ticking off item after item of imagined shortcomings on the child's part. Did you ever consider that you're just a lazy, degenerate slob without enough drive to accomplish anything meaningful in life? I'm just saying, because that's a possibility too. MWAH! Give daddy a big hug!

or other response (please elaborate)

Often, what parents need to do is shut up and learn rather than compulsively teaching. Children learn by following our examples and by experience at what strategies work to get their needs met, mainly. So our first job is to be a good person for our children to observe every day. They learn very little from our discourses on life and our need to point out their faults. So those urges can be safely dropped without abdicating the role of parent. When my son was very young, about 10, he was very upset about something that happened to him that could be comparable to this situation. All I said was "I can see how sad you are." "I can really feel how much you are hurting." "I know how bad someone can feel when something like this happens." When I got to the point that I was overwhelmed by his sadness and felt the urge to reach for something like the messages above, I said, "You know bud, this is one of those times when a mom or dad feels so bad for you that they just feel like they'd do or say anything to take your pain away."

He stopped crying and said, "But I know you'd never do that dad because this is my pain and my life. If you took away my pain, you'd be taking away my life and I know you love me too much to do that." And I just thought, "Wow, the things you can learn when you shut up and listen." My job was to be there for him and I did my best. in the end, he told me what he thought about the situation without any prompting and after his emotions had cleared. He told me what he was going to do about it and I told him that sounded like a great plan. He was 10 and he handled it better than most adults. Amazing things can happen when you have someone who will listen to you non-judgmentally.

I think that he learned not only how to deal with such situations but that he was competent to do it on his own, with a little support, even at 10 years old. When he decided to move overseas at 17 and pursue his dreams (and made it happen without me getting him there), I knew that me keeping quite but present was the best thing I could have done for him.

So my option is shut up, don't criticize, notice your child and what they are feeling without needing to decide if it is the correct feeling or needing to determine if they should or should not be feeling it. Be attentive and make it clear that you are interested in them and not a basketball team or how competent they are at throwing balls. Let them know that you don't care what the coaches point of view is but you care about them and their feelings and sit back and watch as they resolve the emotions and then the problem. Then you get to talk. Tell them how proud you are of them for working through it and solving the problem on their own. Then you get to feel peaceful, knowing that they can meet any challenge in life and be OK.

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread before replying, so I didn't see that these were not choices fashioned by the OP until now.

Mea Maxima Culpa

[Calypso 465]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread before replying, so I didn't see that these were not choices fashioned by the OP until now.

Mea Maxima Culpa

Are you a Catholic ex-seminarian?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Sorry, I didn't read the whole thread before replying, so I didn't see that these were not choices fashioned by the OP until now.

Mea Maxima Culpa

No worries. Good post above though.

I found this hypothetical in a book I'm reading that is designed for teachers and parents. It's pretty interesting so far, but I'll be honest that I haven't fully bought into the book's message.

[Wei&Shu(Joe) 2]

Are you a Catholic ex-seminarian?

No, but I am a recovering catholic, suffering through catholic school from first grade through college.

I do still remember the Pope's phone number though! Et cum spirit 220.

(Anyone who isn't old enough to have gone to mass when it was still said in latin won't get these jokes)

Edited February 2, 2010 by Wei&Shu(Joe)

[Ali G. 37]

The question is, what is the stereotypical 2010 response of a parent to such a situation. It used to be, "practice harder or we are simply not all made out to be top athletes and you will find your niche." Nowadays, when a kid is simply not talented at a sport or gets kicked off for not practicing and slacking off, it's automatically the coaches fault.

Just the other day, I saw a story on the local news of teenagers who hacked into the schools system and changed their grades. Parent's response: "Well the kids have it so tough these days". Are these folks for real or just retarded?

Edited February 2, 2010 by Booyah

[Calypso 465]

Just a refresher to all who have forgotten:

Children Learn What They Live

By Dorothy Law Nolte, Ph.D.

If children live with criticism, they learn to condemn.

If children live with hostility, they learn to fight.

If children live with fear, they learn to be apprehensive.

If children live with pity, they learn to feel sorry for themselves.

If children live with ridicule, they learn to feel shy.

If children live with jealousy, they learn to feel envy.

If children live with shame, they learn to feel guilty.

If children live with encouragement, they learn confidence.

If children live with tolerance, they learn patience.

If children live with praise, they learn appreciation.

If children live with acceptance, they learn to love.

If children live with approval, they learn to like themselves.

If children live with recognition, they learn it is good to have a goal.

If children live with sharing, they learn generosity.

If children live with honesty, they learn truthfulness.

If children live with fairness, they learn justice.

If children live with kindness and consideration, they learn respect.

If children live with security, they learn to have faith in themselves and in those about them.

If children live with friendliness, they learn the world is a nice place in which to live.