Teacher under fire for his Cheney-9/11 theory

[Fandango 1,439]

Here's my $1.53:

Republicans and Democrats are like two WWF wrestlers....oh it's all for the show for our benefit, but basically, they all work together & there are things that have happened in ou lives that would not have been possible without BOTH parties working together.

I have to laugh everytime I hear things like 'Bush and his administration' because at the end of the day (I will got o my grave repeating this) BUSH COULDN'T HAVE DONE JACK CHIT WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF CONGRESS. Was 9/11 planned by the gov't? Who knows! But everyone needs to realise that all we have is speculation & nothing more. None of us can sit here and talk in absolutes without sounding like a dumbass who thinks we have it all sussed despite a lack of fact.

As far as correcting someone's grammar...that's kinda lame imo. No one here is submitting an English dissertation, and man...there are so many gramma mistakes here, that if one truly wanted to point them out, one would be busy all day. But instead, one takes the oppty to point out grammar flaws in a debate? Weak, imo...and I would say that it's trying to imply that another is stupid.

A pet peeve of mine is when ppl use apostrophes incorrectly. not typos, mind you, but like for plurals like apple's, picture's etc...But to point those out to another here in the middle of a debate would detract from the point, and is a bit presumptuous also.

Sorry to ramble but my power is weaning, and I'm trying to type fast.

[gimygirl 0]

Here's my $1.53:

[...]

None of us can sit here and talk in absolutes without sounding like a dumbass who thinks we have it all sussed despite a lack of fact.

[...]

but there ARE absolutes ...

• no steel building in history has collapsed due to fire
  
• 3 steel buildings fell due to 'fire' in one day
  
• thermate WAS found on the steel from WTC (see pic below)
  
• rate of time in which it took the buildings to collapse (NIST report did not analyze the actual pattern of the WTC's collapse)
  
• the towers had 'powered down' on 9/8 & 9/9 floors 50 and up ... no security cameras, etc
  
• huge surges in purchases of put options on stocks of UA & AA
  
• $2.5 million of the put options remained unclaimed
  
• Raytheon (maker Patriot and Tomahawk missiles) stock increased sixfold on the day before the attack.
  

off the top of my head ... this is just a small list of absolutes (without sounding like a dumbass )

[gimygirl 0]

yes i'm a dork ... forgot to post the pic!!

note the diagonal 'cut' and the melted steel ...

[yabasta 0]

video evidence of molten steel(perhaps thermite was used)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExrVgioIXvk

[yabasta 0]

But everyone needs to realise that all we have is speculation & nothing more. None of us can sit here and talk in absolutes without sounding like a dumbass who thinks we have it all sussed despite a lack of fact.

Speculation on evidence. The official story is more speculative than any conspiracy theory. If you can prove that the official story is bollocks which has been proven time and time again then you have to concede a cover up. A cover up would require pretty powerful people to be involved. Not Bush but the people who control Bush. The same people who controlled Clinton. There are details we have to speculate about because we have not been given the full story or all the evidence. The fact that they don`t release Pentagon video is very telling. They released one dodgy video that didn`t show much and that was 5 years after the event.

As far as correcting someone's grammar...that's kinda lame imo. No one here is submitting an English dissertation, and man...there are so many gramma mistakes here, that if one truly wanted to point them out, one would be busy all day. But instead, one takes the oppty to point out grammar flaws in a debate? Weak, imo...and I would say that it's trying to imply that another is stupid.

Grammar is not intellect. Your picture implied lack of marbles which is more of a weak debating point. The correction of grammar was not the point and therefore not the debate but the post before and after that were not grown up debate and just simple minded(regardless of the grammatical error)

A pet peeve of mine is when ppl use apostrophes incorrectly. not typos, mind you, but like for plurals like apple's, picture's etc...But to point those out to another here in the middle of a debate would detract from the point, and is a bit presumptuous also.

Sorry to ramble but my power is weaning, and I'm trying to type fast.

I am the world`s worst typer and probably make my fair share of grammatical errors. I think the computer has caused my english to suffer. I know what you are saying and for the most part i agree but it doesn`t have to be done in a condescending manner. I would be thankful if somebody proof read my posts for me.

[Alex+R 0]

But everyone needs to realise that all we have is speculation & nothing more. None of us can sit here and talk in absolutes without sounding like a dumbass who thinks we have it all sussed despite a lack of fact.

Speculation on evidence. The official story is more speculative than any conspiracy theory. If you can prove that the official story is bollocks which has been proven time and time again then you have to concede a cover up. A cover up would require pretty powerful people to be involved. Not Bush but the people who control Bush. The same people who controlled Clinton. There are details we have to speculate about because we have not been given the full story or all the evidence. The fact that they don`t release Pentagon video is very telling. They released one dodgy video that didn`t show much and that was 5 years after the event.

As far as correcting someone's grammar...that's kinda lame imo. No one here is submitting an English dissertation, and man...there are so many gramma mistakes here, that if one truly wanted to point them out, one would be busy all day. But instead, one takes the oppty to point out grammar flaws in a debate? Weak, imo...and I would say that it's trying to imply that another is stupid.

Grammar is not intellect. Your picture implied lack of marbles which is more of a weak debating point. The correction of grammar was not the point and therefore not the debate but the post before and after that were not grown up debate and just simple minded(regardless of the grammatical error)

A pet peeve of mine is when ppl use apostrophes incorrectly. not typos, mind you, but like for plurals like apple's, picture's etc...But to point those out to another here in the middle of a debate would detract from the point, and is a bit presumptuous also.

Sorry to ramble but my power is weaning, and I'm trying to type fast.

I am the world`s worst typer and probably make my fair share of grammatical errors. I think the computer has caused my english to suffer. I know what you are saying and for the most part i agree but it doesn`t have to be done in a condescending manner. I would be thankful if somebody proof read my posts for me.

Yes yes I'm sorry about the grammar correction, as I've said. I worked for a long time as a magazine copy editor and have done freelance proofreading as well. I have been known to break out in hives over bad grammar (it's geeky and sad, I know). I try to ignore grammatical errors, and I frequently type without caps, losing apostrophes, etc. myself, but since I was already mildly irritated by the PP, I kinda failed to, em, "keep it all in." Then, the response I got was so preposterous/hilarious I had to respond. Again, I'm sorry about that.

Anyway, as far as the actual discussion goes: c'mon people, follow the money, as yabasta said. As far as I know, the only people who sound like dumbasses (ok, foolish) to me are the people who think dissent, skepticism and curiosity are pointless.

[Latin Journey 0]

You should all do your research and discover the facts yourself about 911 before calling anyone a conspiracy nut job.

This video (on google video) is only one example that takes basic common sense and logic to question the truth about 911

After you see this video, you won't think the Wisconsin professor is that crazy.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=15...;q=loose+change

There are hundreds of credible people in high places and former presidential advisors who feel the same as the Wisconsin professor.

I guess the North American Union and the NAFTA Super highway 4 football fields wide from Mexico to Canada right through the heartland of the United States is a conspiracy theory as well. Bypass all US labor unions and have U.S. customs in Kansas City.

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2006/7/10/10921/0135

[pedroh 21]

i just say, that 'theory' ain't that crazy.. isn't the first time it happens.. hello pearl harbor

[Artegal 1]

Just remember that for a conspiracy to be effective it needs to be accepted and limited. That is the less people that know about it and the less people that are opposed to it the more likely the conspiracy is to be effective.

Since so many people were involved in 9/11, so much would have been lost on some versus the gain of others--the even the slightest coincidental circumstances really don't hold up. How many have you seen an optical illusion--the appearance of something is not always what you think. The coincidences are just that coincidences--that why we have that word in the dictionary.

But the problem is that there has been some coverup in the wake of 9/11. This is not the coverup of a conspiracy--but the coverup of fuckups. That is a lot of people ###### up. From the airlines, the FBI, the airport screeners, Immigration, to congress and the president. There was some shame in letting this happen and therefore a limited coverup occurred.

As far as the conspiracy theorist--you do have a political agenda. How many of you that believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy will say that the Oklahoma City bombing, the bombing of the US Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, the bombing of Kobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, the bombing of the USS Cole, and the several murders, kidnappings, and other bombings are also part of a conspiracy. You in the 9/11 camp won't say these terrorist attacks were a conspiracy because they happened on a Democrats watch. So to deny there is a political basis for the 9/11 conspiracy camp is not correct.

Also from the Conspiracy theorist--none of you have made the case that 9/11 was not a conspiracy--and this is the first real test to see if your conspiracy theory is true or false. Its not enough to just say here is this photo of steel beam or a stock trade. You must make the opposite argument and discredit--but I have yet to hear any refutable evidence to the contrary of the official 9/11 report.

Now I have done this very thing, that is I have taken the position that a conspiracy did exist with 9/11--and I have desmantled that theory in the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the fact of coincidence, and the plausible explanation of another likely cause, and also the political biases of the main conspiracy theorist.

And I do believe in conspiracies--Oswald did not shoot JFK.

PS: if anyone makes a comment about my grammar I will have Ewok lock this thread, and it will be your fault.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Artegal

[incanada1234 0]

Artegal: 1, 9/11 conspiracy theorists: 0.

[yabasta 0]

Just remember that for a conspiracy to be effective it needs to be accepted and limited. That is the less people that know about it and the less people that are opposed to it the more likely the conspiracy is to be effective.

Since so many people were involved in 9/11, so much would have been lost on some versus the gain of others--the even the slightest coincidental circumstances really don't hold up. How many have you seen an optical illusion--the appearance of something is not always what you think. The coincidences are just that coincidences--that why we have that word in the dictionary.

But the problem is that there has been some coverup in the wake of 9/11. This is not the coverup of a conspiracy--but the coverup of fuckups. That is a lot of people ###### up. From the airlines, the FBI, the airport screeners, Immigration, to congress and the president. There was some shame in letting this happen and therefore a limited coverup occurred.

So you believe the lie because it is so big? There are some points that you could argue are coincidences. There are some thigns that could be argued as fuckups being covered up but there is so much evidence that you would have to be really gulable to accept that so much of this was a coincidence or a coverup of an error. On top of that the people who would have fucke dup got promotions and increased budgets to spend after 9/11 so what kind of way is that to cover a fuckup? Sure they might want to cover it up so they don`t look bad but then again why? I remember a rail crash or something and a high up guy resigned over it. He didn`t get a payrise and there was no need to cover it up. They don`t have to make a big deal out of it they can just suggest he resigns and give him a golden parachute.

As far as the conspiracy theorist--you do have a political agenda. How many of you that believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy will say that the Oklahoma City bombing, the bombing of the US Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, the bombing of Kobar Towers in Saudi Arabia, the bombing of the USS Cole, and the several murders, kidnappings, and other bombings are also part of a conspiracy. You in the 9/11 camp won't say these terrorist attacks were a conspiracy because they happened on a Democrats watch. So to deny there is a political basis for the 9/11 conspiracy camp is not correct.

Sorry but you clearly do not know much about the 9/11 truth movement, this is evident from the name "conspiracy theorist" and from the above statement about politics. The people speaking out on 9/11 come from all backgrounds and represent all political parties aswell as plenty of non party afiliated people like myself. I do not vote in the U.K. and will not vote in USA even when i can(i doubt it anyway). Many people who study 9/11 also study the various secret societies and their connections with the elite and these cover both Democrat and Republican. Also much of the evidence relating to 9/11 goes back to fuckups(as you put it) by the Clinton administration.

Also from the Conspiracy theorist--none of you have made the case that 9/11 was not a conspiracy--and this is the first real test to see if your conspiracy theory is true or false. Its not enough to just say here is this photo of steel beam or a stock trade. You must make the opposite argument and discredit--but I have yet to hear any refutable evidence to the contrary of the official 9/11 report.

Well you clearly have not been looking for such arguments then. I am not sure if i understand you correctly when you say that people should be arguing against conspiracy to prove the conspiracy but i think you are saying just that people should discredit the official 9/11 report rather than just show you evidence right?

Well there is plenty. For starters they ignore the steel columns in the centre of the towers and they ignore the wings of the plane hitting the Pentagon. They ignore the near freefall of the towers despite the 110 floors that would increase the time it would take the building to colapse without help. The list goes on and on. Maybe you need to study 9/11 some more as you don`t appear to know much about the 9/11 report and what it fails to address and explain.

Now I have done this very thing, that is I have taken the position that a conspiracy did exist with 9/11--and I have desmantled that theory in the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, the fact of coincidence, and the plausible explanation of another likely cause, and also the political biases of the main conspiracy theorist.

where did you do this? How did you do this? And who is the main conspiracy theorist? There are thousands and maybe millions by now. So how do you know their political bias and did you factor in your own?

And I do believe in conspiracies--Oswald did not shoot JFK.

Well if you believe that sometimes people are not told the truth then maybe you should be more critical of what you are told. Kennedy was not killed by Republicans or Democrats but by the elite that run both Republicans and Democrats(imo). Kennedy pissed off the CIA and he pissed of the Federal Reserve. He pissed off the powerful and he was removed. These are my opinions based on my own research and the research of many others. The truth about JFK is not "out" but the number of people who accept that he was shot by a lone gunman with a crappy rifle is a lot lower now, it is 40 odd years later though. Since 2001 the ammount of information regarding the events of 9/11 has grown and grown daily. It sometimes feels like there is so much that everybody should be aware of the obvious fact that it was not 19 guys who hide in caves. The events are still cloudy but i find it amazing that you can say that it is a coincidence that the only 3 steel building to ever be completely destroye dby fire were all in New York and all came down on september 11th 2001 despite the black and grey smoke indicating the lack of efficiency the fires had. I could make many websites worth of information up of the evidence relating to 9/11 (as many people have made websites about it) so there is no way to cover it all here.

The fact is that if you can explain every aspect of 9/11 then you are wanted by the elite because nobody else seems to be able to shut up the ever growing truth movement.

p.s. there is no score keeping in debate. If there were it would be a contentious and debatable issue and would distract people fromt he actual issue.

Edited July 24, 2006 by yabasta

[Ban Hammer 12,878]

oh gawd here we go again. hello, dr kevorkian? can i schedule an appointment?

[Artegal 1]

oh gawd here we go again. hello, dr kevorkian? can i schedule an appointment?

DR K is terminally ill but said he won't use his own medicine.

[yabasta 0]

oh gawd here we go again. hello, dr kevorkian? can i schedule an appointment?

You are very welcome to avoid this thread if your attitude is indeed "here we go again". Of course you can even attempt to respond in some way other than a juvenile way. I will not hold my breathe though.

[Ric Flair 0]

oh gawd here we go again. hello, dr kevorkian? can i schedule an appointment?

DR K is terminally ill but said he won't use his own medicine.

*chops Dr. K*

wooooooo!