Fort Hood's 9/11

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

This should be adopted in court rooms.

"We know he's guilty, just look at him!"

Is it wrong for us to call him a murder?

The issue is whether or not he is a "terrorist", not a murderer.

People are saying that hasn't really been conclusively established. I don't see what the big deal is about personally.

[The_Dude 1,142]

This thread is not going to get any better. For some reason, wanting to acquire actual knowledge about an incident before making accusations is to side with terrorism. Go figure.

fine fine fine hang your hat on "we dont know for sure" but I just find it a little naive.

Waiting for the facts to be discerned rather than indicting someone based on conjecture is naive?

good grief Im not the court of law, I am a individual with a opinion and a educated one at that

Is he a murderer or do you need the court of law to prove it first?

My point, and that of several others here is. First, wanting to know the facts is not sympathizing with terrorists. Second, how can you say that you're making an educated guess when all that is out there is rumor and speculation? An educated guess would be waiting until the facts have been established or at least until more information is available. I'm not defending what the man did, I'm just not ready to stipulate that it was Islamic Terrorism like yourself and Joe seem so quick to label it. The facts simply aren't there to support it yet.

[_Simpson_ 250]

This thread is not going to get any better. For some reason, wanting to acquire actual knowledge about an incident before making accusations is to side with terrorism. Go figure.

fine fine fine hang your hat on "we dont know for sure" but I just find it a little naive.

Major Hasan will get what's coming to him... I see a Death Penalty conviction in his future. As for whether or not he is a terrorist, terrorist sympathizer or just a nut who snapped will come out, so lets all just take a deep breath & try to calm down. Nobody is defending Hasan's actions or feeling sorry for him & we're all disgusted by what he did.

Deep breath ... fail, yeah Im not accusing people of feeling sorry for him and all that nonsense, if you read what I have posted you would have known that, like I said his motivations are pretty obvious and to act like there not or hang your hat on "well we dont know for sure" seems silly to me.

[The_Dude 1,142]

This thread is not going to get any better. For some reason, wanting to acquire actual knowledge about an incident before making accusations is to side with terrorism. Go figure.

fine fine fine hang your hat on "we dont know for sure" but I just find it a little naive.

Major Hasan will get what's coming to him... I see a Death Penalty conviction in his future. As for whether or not he is a terrorist, terrorist sympathizer or just a nut who snapped will come out, so lets all just take a deep breath & try to calm down. Nobody is defending Hasan's actions or feeling sorry for him & we're all disgusted by what he did.

Deep breath ... fail, yeah Im not accusing people of feeling sorry for him and all that nonsense, if you read what I have posted you would have known that, like I said his motivations are pretty obvious and to act like there not or hang your hat on "well we dont know for sure" seems silly to me.

They aren't obvious because all there is out there is rumors. Seriously, what is so wrong about witholding judgement until more facts are in?

[_Simpson_ 250]

This thread is not going to get any better. For some reason, wanting to acquire actual knowledge about an incident before making accusations is to side with terrorism. Go figure.

fine fine fine hang your hat on "we dont know for sure" but I just find it a little naive.

Waiting for the facts to be discerned rather than indicting someone based on conjecture is naive?

good grief Im not the court of law, I am a individual with a opinion and a educated one at that

Is he a murderer or do you need the court of law to prove it first?

My point, and that of several others here is. First, wanting to know the facts is not sympathizing with terrorists. Second, how can you say that you're making an educated guess when all that is out there is rumor and speculation? An educated guess would be waiting until the facts have been established or at least until more information is available. I'm not defending what the man did, I'm just not ready to stipulate that it was Islamic Terrorism like yourself and Joe seem so quick to label it. The facts simply aren't there to support it yet.

I have not said that anyone here is sympathizing with terrorists!!! The point I am trying to make is theres no need to get all up in arms because people are calling him a terrorist, it walking and barking like a dog. It just seems like a high road approach instead of calling a spade a spade.

[_Simpson_ 250]

This should be adopted in court rooms.

"We know he's guilty, just look at him!"

Is it wrong for us to call him a murder?

The issue is whether or not he is a "terrorist", not a murderer.

People are saying that hasn't really been conclusively established. I don't see what the big deal is about personally.

I know what the issue was, I was trying to make a point.

I think theres plenty of things that prove this wasnt just a man that snapped and in a court of law he would probably get found guilty.

[alienlovechild 75]

Major Hasan will get what's coming to him... I see a Death Penalty conviction in his future. As for whether or not he is a terrorist, terrorist sympathizer or just a nut who snapped will come out, so lets all just take a deep breath & try to calm down. Nobody is defending Hasan's actions or feeling sorry for him & we're all disgusted by what he did.

Some of us are less disgusted than other as all negative background on Hasan is considered highly suspect to deter a coming "backlash". There's little to no justification for an insanity defense based on the legal McNaughton test i.e. did he know what he was doing was wrong or is he insane? As far as we know, he had no history of prior mental illness and an least a two year run and public history of making radical statements against his oath as a soldier. Circumstantial evidence already shows the guy had a motive and planned t carry out the attack at least by that morning.

It will be interesting to see the defense strategy. Either go with insanity (hard to prove here) or claim he was so persecuted by the Army's anti-Muslim climate it gives him a chance to air his views nationally which he'll probably relish.

[merijan 0]

Im with you Joe.. lets call a spade a spade... SO from now on please do not refer to what has happened in Iraq as a "War"... its and invasion, occupation, degradation.. Lets do call a spade a spade.. like an administration that lied LIED about this invasion and called it a war... like the over 4,000 AMERICAN military DEAD from what was called a "WAR" .. a spade is a spade...

What ever anyone says, whatever accusations anyone makes.. what happened was a guy became crazy he shot people. Thats not justifiable or honorable. And its just plain wrong and he just lost it.. Perhaps after hearing all the Degrading, dehumanizing conditions that our Military has done all in the name of 'War" he lost it. maybe he lost himself.. it has nothing to do with Islam,, his faith ... And by the way I dont beleive in any term "Islamic Terrorist" there are people who want to achieve thier power, political needs, who use what ever tools they have to manipulate and create thier own agendas. And they happen to use the power of a faith that people would die for as a tool to achieve their own desires. So please just read a little.and get yourself out of the box... of ignorance...

[The_Dude 1,142]

Im with you Joe.. lets call a spade a spade... SO from now on please do not refer to what has happened in Iraq as a "War"... its and invasion, occupation, degradation.. Lets do call a spade a spade.. like an administration that lied LIED about this invasion and called it a war... like the over 4,000 AMERICAN military DEAD from what was called a "WAR" .. a spade is a spade...

What ever anyone says, whatever accusations anyone makes.. what happened was a guy became crazy he shot people. Thats not justifiable or honorable. And its just plain wrong and he just lost it.. Perhaps after hearing all the Degrading, dehumanizing conditions that our Military has done all in the name of 'War" he lost it. maybe he lost himself.. it has nothing to do with Islam,, his faith ... And by the way I dont beleive in any term "Islamic Terrorist" there are people who want to achieve thier power, political needs, who use what ever tools they have to manipulate and create thier own agendas. And they happen to use the power of a faith that people would die for as a tool to achieve their own desires. So please just read a little.and get yourself out of the box... of ignorance...

I don't think there is any justification for what he did. What is at discussion here is whether or not he did what he did because of personal or ideological reasons. If it was for ideological reasons, he was indeed by definition a terrorist. Whether or not that is the case and whether or not islam is the catalyst is yet to be determined. All we know at this point is that a man shot a lot of rounds and hit 30+ people, killing 11. Despicable, no matter what label you wish to afix after his name.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Im with you Joe.. lets call a spade a spade... SO from now on please do not refer to what has happened in Iraq as a "War"... its and invasion, occupation, degradation.. Lets do call a spade a spade.. like an administration that lied LIED about this invasion and called it a war... like the over 4,000 AMERICAN military DEAD from what was called a "WAR" .. a spade is a spade...

What ever anyone says, whatever accusations anyone makes.. what happened was a guy became crazy he shot people. Thats not justifiable or honorable. And its just plain wrong and he just lost it.. Perhaps after hearing all the Degrading, dehumanizing conditions that our Military has done all in the name of 'War" he lost it. maybe he lost himself.. it has nothing to do with Islam,, his faith ... And by the way I dont beleive in any term "Islamic Terrorist" there are people who want to achieve thier power, political needs, who use what ever tools they have to manipulate and create thier own agendas. And they happen to use the power of a faith that people would die for as a tool to achieve their own desires. So please just read a little.and get yourself out of the box... of ignorance...

dehumanizing conditions.... care to explain! Are you referring to specific situations that dont represent our military as a whole?

[nowhereman 1]

Major Hasan will get what's coming to him... I see a Death Penalty conviction in his future. As for whether or not he is a terrorist, terrorist sympathizer or just a nut who snapped will come out, so lets all just take a deep breath & try to calm down. Nobody is defending Hasan's actions or feeling sorry for him & we're all disgusted by what he did.

Some of us are less disgusted than other as all negative background on Hasan is considered highly suspect to deter a coming "backlash". There's little to no justification for an insanity defense based on the legal McNaughton test i.e. did he know what he was doing was wrong or is he insane? As far as we know, he had no history of prior mental illness and an least a two year run and public history of making radical statements against his oath as a soldier. Circumstantial evidence already shows the guy had a motive and planned t carry out the attack at least by that morning.

It will be interesting to see the defense strategy. Either go with insanity (hard to prove here) or claim he was so persecuted by the Army's anti-Muslim climate it gives him a chance to air his views nationally which he'll probably relish.

Let me go on record right now by saying if Hasan gets anything less than the death penalty he got off easy. Even if he is found to be mentally ill (which I don't buy since he knew what he was doing) I believe in "Guilty but mentally ill" vs. "Not Guilty due to being mentally ill".

[nowhereman 1]

Im with you Joe.. lets call a spade a spade... SO from now on please do not refer to what has happened in Iraq as a "War"... its and invasion, occupation, degradation.. Lets do call a spade a spade.. like an administration that lied LIED about this invasion and called it a war... like the over 4,000 AMERICAN military DEAD from what was called a "WAR" .. a spade is a spade...

What ever anyone says, whatever accusations anyone makes.. what happened was a guy became crazy he shot people. Thats not justifiable or honorable. And its just plain wrong and he just lost it.. Perhaps after hearing all the Degrading, dehumanizing conditions that our Military has done all in the name of 'War" he lost it. maybe he lost himself.. it has nothing to do with Islam,, his faith ... And by the way I dont beleive in any term "Islamic Terrorist" there are people who want to achieve thier power, political needs, who use what ever tools they have to manipulate and create thier own agendas. And they happen to use the power of a faith that people would die for as a tool to achieve their own desires. So please just read a little.and get yourself out of the box... of ignorance...

I don't think there is any justification for what he did. What is at discussion here is whether or not he did what he did because of personal or ideological reasons. If it was for ideological reasons, he was indeed by definition a terrorist. Whether or not that is the case and whether or not islam is the catalyst is yet to be determined. All we know at this point is that a man shot a lot of rounds and hit 30+ people, killing 11. Despicable, no matter what label you wish to afix after his name.

Rob is right; nothing justifies Hasan's actions. I didn't agree with President Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq but when my number was called I went & served with honor... that's what a soldier does. Shooting dozens of innocent people & killing 13 is murder, plain & simple.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Im with you Joe.. lets call a spade a spade... SO from now on please do not refer to what has happened in Iraq as a "War"... its and invasion, occupation, degradation.. Lets do call a spade a spade.. like an administration that lied LIED about this invasion and called it a war... like the over 4,000 AMERICAN military DEAD from what was called a "WAR" .. a spade is a spade...

What ever anyone says, whatever accusations anyone makes.. what happened was a guy became crazy he shot people. Thats not justifiable or honorable. And its just plain wrong and he just lost it.. Perhaps after hearing all the Degrading, dehumanizing conditions that our Military has done all in the name of 'War" he lost it. maybe he lost himself.. it has nothing to do with Islam,, his faith ... And by the way I dont beleive in any term "Islamic Terrorist" there are people who want to achieve thier power, political needs, who use what ever tools they have to manipulate and create thier own agendas. And they happen to use the power of a faith that people would die for as a tool to achieve their own desires. So please just read a little.and get yourself out of the box... of ignorance...

I don't think there is any justification for what he did. What is at discussion here is whether or not he did what he did because of personal or ideological reasons. If it was for ideological reasons, he was indeed by definition a terrorist. Whether or not that is the case and whether or not islam is the catalyst is yet to be determined. All we know at this point is that a man shot a lot of rounds and hit 30+ people, killing 11. Despicable, no matter what label you wish to afix after his name.

Rob is right; nothing justifies Hasan's actions. I didn't agree with President Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq but when my number was called I went & served with honor... that's what a soldier does. Shooting dozens of innocent people & killing 13 is murder, plain & simple.

No no no dont assume hes a murderer yet, we just have witnesses saying he is, wait until its proven in a court of law.

[The_Dude 1,142]

Im with you Joe.. lets call a spade a spade... SO from now on please do not refer to what has happened in Iraq as a "War"... its and invasion, occupation, degradation.. Lets do call a spade a spade.. like an administration that lied LIED about this invasion and called it a war... like the over 4,000 AMERICAN military DEAD from what was called a "WAR" .. a spade is a spade...

What ever anyone says, whatever accusations anyone makes.. what happened was a guy became crazy he shot people. Thats not justifiable or honorable. And its just plain wrong and he just lost it.. Perhaps after hearing all the Degrading, dehumanizing conditions that our Military has done all in the name of 'War" he lost it. maybe he lost himself.. it has nothing to do with Islam,, his faith ... And by the way I dont beleive in any term "Islamic Terrorist" there are people who want to achieve thier power, political needs, who use what ever tools they have to manipulate and create thier own agendas. And they happen to use the power of a faith that people would die for as a tool to achieve their own desires. So please just read a little.and get yourself out of the box... of ignorance...

I don't think there is any justification for what he did. What is at discussion here is whether or not he did what he did because of personal or ideological reasons. If it was for ideological reasons, he was indeed by definition a terrorist. Whether or not that is the case and whether or not islam is the catalyst is yet to be determined. All we know at this point is that a man shot a lot of rounds and hit 30+ people, killing 11. Despicable, no matter what label you wish to afix after his name.

Rob is right; nothing justifies Hasan's actions. I didn't agree with President Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq but when my number was called I went & served with honor... that's what a soldier does. Shooting dozens of innocent people & killing 13 is murder, plain & simple.

No no no dont assume hes a murderer yet, we just have witnesses saying he is, wait until its proven in a court of law.

Come on Simpson, you're pulling a Joe now. You know damn well what each of us meant by waiting for proof. There are facts that he shot 31 people, killing 11. There are ZERO facts that he was an Islamic Terrorist. See the difference?

[nowhereman 1]

Im with you Joe.. lets call a spade a spade... SO from now on please do not refer to what has happened in Iraq as a "War"... its and invasion, occupation, degradation.. Lets do call a spade a spade.. like an administration that lied LIED about this invasion and called it a war... like the over 4,000 AMERICAN military DEAD from what was called a "WAR" .. a spade is a spade...

What ever anyone says, whatever accusations anyone makes.. what happened was a guy became crazy he shot people. Thats not justifiable or honorable. And its just plain wrong and he just lost it.. Perhaps after hearing all the Degrading, dehumanizing conditions that our Military has done all in the name of 'War" he lost it. maybe he lost himself.. it has nothing to do with Islam,, his faith ... And by the way I dont beleive in any term "Islamic Terrorist" there are people who want to achieve thier power, political needs, who use what ever tools they have to manipulate and create thier own agendas. And they happen to use the power of a faith that people would die for as a tool to achieve their own desires. So please just read a little.and get yourself out of the box... of ignorance...

I don't think there is any justification for what he did. What is at discussion here is whether or not he did what he did because of personal or ideological reasons. If it was for ideological reasons, he was indeed by definition a terrorist. Whether or not that is the case and whether or not islam is the catalyst is yet to be determined. All we know at this point is that a man shot a lot of rounds and hit 30+ people, killing 11. Despicable, no matter what label you wish to afix after his name.

Rob is right; nothing justifies Hasan's actions. I didn't agree with President Bush's decision to go to war in Iraq but when my number was called I went & served with honor... that's what a soldier does. Shooting dozens of innocent people & killing 13 is murder, plain & simple.

No no no dont assume hes a murderer yet, we just have witnesses saying he is, wait until its proven in a court of law.

Nice try, but Hasan's actions & guilt are a slam dunk. His motives are the part that needs to be sorted out. Please do not try to confuse the two. Edited November 10, 2009 by nowhereman