Rhetorical Handcuffs

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The NYT piece this morning on yesterday's Senate Finance Committee debate on the public option includes plenty of quotes from Republicans on why they oppose the measure. Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), for example, called a public plan "a Trojan horse for a single-payer system." Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) said a public option would "ultimately force private insurers out of business." Noam Scheiber raises a very good point -- the left pushes back against GOP falsehoods, but doesn't actually fear the dire Republican warnings.

If, like me, you support the public option, your first instinct is to dismiss this stuff as typical GOP fear-mongering. But then you think about it and you're kind of like: "Well, yeah, if we got a public option, I kind of would hope it eventually put private insurers out of business and led to a single-payer system." Don't get me wrong -- I'm a big fan of the free market. (Okay, a fan.) But it happens to be a complete disaster when it comes to health insurance, owing to problems like adverse selection. (Left to themselves, only unhealthy people would tend to buy insurance, which would drive up costs, which would cause the healthier among them to ditch their insurance, which would drive costs up higher, etc., etc.)

Now, as Jonathan Cohn points out in his

latest piece

, it turns out you can deal with these problems in a private insurance system. But, as his Dutch example also demonstrates, doing so is incredibly convoluted and requires a ton of intrusive regulation. So, yeah, the idea of creating a public option as a Trojan Horse to end private insurance sounds pretty damn appealing. And I suspect most public-option proponents feel the same way -- even if many of them, especially the ones in public office, can't actually say so.

I've found that this is common, and is not at all limited to the public option.

Republicans, for example, will say, "Democratic reform plans would allow public subsidies for abortion." Progressive reform advocates respond, "That's a complete distortion -- though public funding for women's reproductive choices isn't such a bad idea."

Republicans will say, "Democratic reform plans might let illegal immigrants participate in health care exchange." Progressive reform advocates respond, "That's entirely misleading -- though there's an entirely reasonable case to be made that everyone in the country should get coverage."

And in Scheiber's example, Republicans argue that a public option will put private insurers out of business. Progressive reform advocates respond, "That's obviously not true -- though single-payer doesn't sound so bad."

In other words, Dems are generally steering clear of contentious proposals; Republicans are manufacturing scary-but-false scenarios; and some of us have to push back against accusations relating to ideas we actually like. It's awkward rhetorical situation.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/

[dalegg 143]

So when Democratic Senators kill the healthcare bill, will it be because they were fooled by Republican Rhetoric?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

They (the Democrats) are just too timid, and too late. Being sneaky doesn't work in chess, and it doesn't work in politics.

Edited September 30, 2009 by Lone Ranger

[Dan J 277]

We really do only have two choices on the insurance side of the debate if we want to get prices down. They are:

1. Massive regulation over basic level of coverage. Everyone would be required to purchase it, and real competition would have to be enforced which would mean an end to employer provided health coverage (Why a business still wants to deal with providing health insurance is beyond me).

2. A public option available to everyone and anyone who wants it. It might have some competitive advantages, but if it really provides terrible service like some of its detractors suppose it wont be able to compete.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So when Democratic Senators kill the healthcare bill, will it be because they were fooled by Republican Rhetoric?

I think this has more to do with the fluctuating polls. Hopefully, Congress won't pay much attention to these meandering and often convoluted polls, and do what their constituents elected them to do.

[dalegg 143]

So when Democratic Senators kill the healthcare bill, will it be because they were fooled by Republican Rhetoric?

I think this has more to do with the fluctuating polls. Hopefully, Congress won't pay much attention to these meandering and often convoluted polls, and do what their constituents elected them to do.

Yeah, Democrats need to grow a pair. (I got that from a Michael Moore interview)

[SMR 368]

So, in summary this is an admission that GOP "falsehoods" are true. Thus, the senator in the article admits that he is lying through his teeth.

In general, the conservative argument is that although there are problems with private run health care, the American federal government has never provided a service to the American people that has a reasonable cost, is effective, and has good customer service. In general, the efficiency of a government program is pretty closely correlated to the extent that the private sector can compete.

In reality, there are two basic reasons why health care is ridiculously expensive in America: malpractice insurance and government run health care programs (medicare and medicaid). Both of these are caused by the government.

Edited September 30, 2009 by SMR

[Dan J 277]

They (the Democrats) are just too timid, and too late. Being sneaky doesn't work in chess, and it doesn't work in politics.

I agree. We need some really significant changes to see savings in the healthcare system. Even with strong leadership it might be politically impossible to do it at the national level. There is room for states to set an example of how healthcare reform should look like.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So when Democratic Senators kill the healthcare bill, will it be because they were fooled by Republican Rhetoric?

I think this has more to do with the fluctuating polls. Hopefully, Congress won't pay much attention to these meandering and often convoluted polls, and do what their constituents elected them to do.

Yeah, Democrats need to grow a pair. (I got that from a Michael Moore interview)

The talk is that the Blue Dogs will vote against a public option if they don't have any fear of retribution from their constituents. The DNC should put forward an aggressive campaign to run them out of office if they don't go along with the rest of the party. We'll see how this goes.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

So when Democratic Senators kill the healthcare bill, will it be because they were fooled by Republican Rhetoric?

I think this has more to do with the fluctuating polls. Hopefully, Congress won't pay much attention to these meandering and often convoluted polls, and do what their constituents elected them to do.

Yeah, Democrats need to grow a pair. (I got that from a Michael Moore interview)

The talk is that the Blue Dogs will vote against a public option if they don't have any fear of retribution from their constituents. The DNC should put forward an aggressive campaign to run them out of office if they don't go along with the rest of the party. We'll see how this goes.

So much for being inclusive. What happens to tolerance as Democratic plank?

[dalegg 143]

So when Democratic Senators kill the healthcare bill, will it be because they were fooled by Republican Rhetoric?

I think this has more to do with the fluctuating polls. Hopefully, Congress won't pay much attention to these meandering and often convoluted polls, and do what their constituents elected them to do.

Yeah, Democrats need to grow a pair. (I got that from a Michael Moore interview)

The talk is that the Blue Dogs will vote against a public option if they don't have any fear of retribution from their constituents. The DNC should put forward an aggressive campaign to run them out of office if they don't go along with the rest of the party. We'll see how this goes.

I thought the reason why they would vote against the public option is because they do have fear of retribution from their constituents if they support it. Does the DNC think all Democrat voters across the country are going to support the Nancy Pelosi types? I really don't get the sense that that is the case, but hey- more power to ya!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So when Democratic Senators kill the healthcare bill, will it be because they were fooled by Republican Rhetoric?

I think this has more to do with the fluctuating polls. Hopefully, Congress won't pay much attention to these meandering and often convoluted polls, and do what their constituents elected them to do.

Yeah, Democrats need to grow a pair. (I got that from a Michael Moore interview)

The talk is that the Blue Dogs will vote against a public option if they don't have any fear of retribution from their constituents. The DNC should put forward an aggressive campaign to run them out of office if they don't go along with the rest of the party. We'll see how this goes.

I thought the reason why they would vote against the public option is because they do have fear of retribution from their constituents if they support it. Does the DNC think all Democrat voters across the country are going to support the Nancy Pelosi types? I really don't get the sense that that is the case, but hey- more power to ya!

In spite of the some of the recent polls, a majority of Americans overall want universal coverage. Even McCain addressed that populist view during the campaign with his own plan. Having a public option competing with private insurance companies is not some left wing, radical idea, Dale. The biggest concern among the Blue Dogs is the cost.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So when Democratic Senators kill the healthcare bill, will it be because they were fooled by Republican Rhetoric?

I think this has more to do with the fluctuating polls. Hopefully, Congress won't pay much attention to these meandering and often convoluted polls, and do what their constituents elected them to do.

Yeah, Democrats need to grow a pair. (I got that from a Michael Moore interview)

The talk is that the Blue Dogs will vote against a public option if they don't have any fear of retribution from their constituents. The DNC should put forward an aggressive campaign to run them out of office if they don't go along with the rest of the party. We'll see how this goes.

So much for being inclusive. What happens to tolerance as Democratic plank?

When the President, as leader of your party putting forth his agenda which he campaigned and got elected on, you best not stand in his way with the exception of any legitimate concerns...but still, if you're a handful of Democrats that killed a bill, you better be prepared to stand by your vote when it's time to run for re-election. That's how the process works, Bill. Obama's not throwing them a grenade here. He's fulfilling on his campaign promise to the American people. You may not like it, but sorry, he won on those policies.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

So when Democratic Senators kill the healthcare bill, will it be because they were fooled by Republican Rhetoric?

I think this has more to do with the fluctuating polls. Hopefully, Congress won't pay much attention to these meandering and often convoluted polls, and do what their constituents elected them to do.

Yeah, Democrats need to grow a pair. (I got that from a Michael Moore interview)

The talk is that the Blue Dogs will vote against a public option if they don't have any fear of retribution from their constituents. The DNC should put forward an aggressive campaign to run them out of office if they don't go along with the rest of the party. We'll see how this goes.

So much for being inclusive. What happens to tolerance as Democratic plank?

When the President, as leader of your party putting forth his agenda which he campaigned and got elected on, you best not stand in his way with the exception of any legitimate concerns...but still, if you're a handful of Democrats that killed a bill, you better be prepared to stand by your vote when it's time to run for re-election. That's how the process works, Bill. Obama's not throwing them a grenade here. He's fulfilling on his campaign promise to the American people. You may not like it, but sorry, he won on those policies.

He won because he is not John McCain.