Proof

[WeatherEmperor 21]

I see alot of members here at VJ get placed on the AP list for the HCMC Consulate for more processing. My question is, how does one go about proving to HCMC that you do have a real, serious relationship with your SO? I mean all I can think of is repeated visits to Vietnam, multiple love letters, long phone calls (this would kill the phone bill). But I see that for many of you this is still not enough. I mean what does HCMC expect couples to do? Make babies and use them as proof?? I haven't even submitted my I-129F and I am already starting to freak out about this. How can we prove it??

<CARRICK>

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I see alot of members here at VJ get placed on the AP list for the HCMC Consulate for more processing. My question is, how does one go about proving to HCMC that you do have a real, serious relationship with your SO? I mean all I can think of is repeated visits to Vietnam, multiple love letters, long phone calls (this would kill the phone bill). But I see that for many of you this is still not enough. I mean what does HCMC expect couples to do? Make babies and use them as proof?? I haven't even submitted my I-129F and I am already starting to freak out about this. How can we prove it??

<CARRICK>

I have not a clue. BUT there are a couple really great members here that will help you out with HCMC. Hang in there and they will be along soon. Good luck.

[ScottThuy 140]

This is why I said document everything in the other topic... You need to keep all boarding passes, have pictures of you and her and all of her relatives together.... Some say that attitude is everything. How she acts and responds in the interview... If she does not hesitate when asked a question like where does he work and how much does he make and oh yeah what is his supervisors name... they are good at reading people, but they are also looking for red flags... If you have a real relationship.. it usually shows.. its the red flags or missed questions that can get you tripped up and in AP...

[JimVaPhuong 4,865]

I see alot of members here at VJ get placed on the AP list for the HCMC Consulate for more processing. My question is, how does one go about proving to HCMC that you do have a real, serious relationship with your SO? I mean all I can think of is repeated visits to Vietnam, multiple love letters, long phone calls (this would kill the phone bill). But I see that for many of you this is still not enough. I mean what does HCMC expect couples to do? Make babies and use them as proof?? I haven't even submitted my I-129F and I am already starting to freak out about this. How can we prove it??

<CARRICK>

That's the wrong approach to take with the consulate in HCM. There is nothing you can do prove your relationship is sincere. They presume everyone is a fraud. For an unfortunately disproportionate number of applicants, they are correct. Anything you would do to prove your relationship is real, a visa scammer would also do, including having a truckload of babies.

Don't think of it in terms of "What can I do to prove we are real?". Think of it in terms of "What can I do to prevent the consulate from proving I'm NOT real?". This doesn't mean you don't have to provide the customary "proof of relationship" evidence - you do have to provide it, or you will definitely be denied. Just don't count on that evidence alone to get you a visa.

What you must do is identify everything the consulate might use as an excuse to deny your visa and send it back to USCIS. Every case has one or more things the consulate will consider to be "red flags". These red flags, not properly addressed, can result in anything ranging from a blue slip for more evidence, to extended AP processing, and even to having your petition returned to USCIS with a recommendation that the approval be revoked.

The common red flags have been listed in the Asia: East and Pacific form a number of times, but here some that come to mind:

• Recent divorce by the beneficiary - they suspect the beneficiary divorced just to marry the USC, whom she'll divorce as soon as she gets her green card, and then petition for her ex-husband.
• Recent divorce by the petitioner - they suspect the petitioner divorced temporarily just to help the beneficiary immigrate, and possibly that the petitioner is being paid to do so.
• Previous failed attempts by beneficiary to immigrate to the US - demonstrates beneficiary is willing to do whatever it takes to get to the US.
• No common language between petitioner and beneficiary - if they can't communicate then how can they develop a relationship?
• Sporadic contact between petitioner and beneficiary - does not seem like a serious relationship.
• Petitioner was introduced to beneficiary by relatives of the beneficiary living in the US - Uncle "boom boom" is setting up his "niece" to come to the US.
• Petitioner and beneficiary are engaged on the first trip to Vietnam - contrary to local customs.
• No formal "Dam Hoi" engagement ceremony - contrary to local customs.
• No evidence petitioner has developed any relationship with family of beneficiary - contrary to local customs. Vietnamese families are very much involved in weddings.
• Petitioner has made only one or two short trips to visit beneficiary - does not seem like a serious relationship.
• Beneficiary has family in the US - stronger motive to immigrate, and any family member could have been involved in promoting the relationship.
• Petitioner barely meets or doesn't meet minimum income requirements for a sponsor - petitioner might easily be "bought" by beneficiary or his/her family. HCM usually won't accept a co-sponsor for K1 visas.
• Big age difference - contrary to local customs; petitioner gets a sex toy for a couple of years, and beneficiary gets a green card.

The way to address these red flags is in the initial petition to USCIS. If you wait until the interview, you might not get a chance to present an explanation or evidence to counter the accusation from the CO.

Remember - the CO can only deny based on evidence which was not known to USCIS at the time the petition was approved. If you explain your red flags sufficiently with the petition, and the petition is approved, then the consulate can't use those red flags as a reason to deny the visa. HCM is one of the consulates where "front loading" the petition is highly recommended.

HCM routinely gives out blue slips for a timeline of the relationship, a list of beneficiary's relatives living in the US, and proof of ex-spouse's residence (they want proof neither beneficiary's nor petitioner's ex-spouse is still living with them). You should include the timeline with the petition regardless. It's your best opportunity to address any red flags. Include the other other two if they apply to your case.

Spend some time in the Asia: East and Pacific sub-forum. You'll learn a lot.

Good luck!

[Anh map 2,098]

Babies aren't proof of a bona fide relationship. And telling the consulate that you love each other doesn't prove a whole lot either.

Multiple visits are a good idea, but not required. Some are succesful when only visiting once, but that is not typical for HCMC.

Be prepared to do some work in order to obtain the visa. Don't try to just get by with evidence.

Do some reading in the Asia:East & Pacific regional forum to gain information specific to HCMC. You will find a lot of folks willing to help you prepare your case. This is one of the more difficult consulates for fiancee and spouse visas due to years of fraudlent couples.

As Scott said, document as much as you can. Use Yahoo chat/Skype/etc. or another low price calling plan to communicate for free and also to provide a log of chats/phone calls.

Make a list of all of her family (if any) in the US and include the addresses.

Do some reading and then start asking questions.

Welcome to VJ

[ScottThuy 140]

He is already working on frontloading.. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=219266

with enough preperation at this stage he can really be on a strong roll by the time he gets to the consulate... Please add in the frontloading discussion if you can. roger I know you have given this concept much more thought than I have....

[WeatherEmperor 21]

I am so sorry guys. I realize I have a similar topic over at the Asia: East Pacific forum. I was basically saying that the more I read articles at VJ and the more I talk with you guys, the more I realize that Thu and I need to take more time. Now may not be the right time to file for the K-1. Right now I just want to focus on our relationship like visiting each other in each the US and Vietnam. While that is going on, Im just gonna keep adding and adding more documentation and evidence and learning more and more. Scott, you can also email me if you like. I think you are a great help to me.

<CARRICK>

[fred n Dao Honey 0]

I am so sorry guys. I realize I have a similar topic over at the Asia: East Pacific forum. I was basically saying that the more I read articles at VJ and the more I talk with you guys, the more I realize that Thu and I need to take more time. Now may not be the right time to file for the K-1. Right now I just want to focus on our relationship like visiting each other in each the US and Vietnam. While that is going on, Im just gonna keep adding and adding more documentation and evidence and learning more and more. Scott, you can also email me if you like. I think you are a great help to me.

<CARRICK>

I copied this over from my other coments for you to make sure you get it. Read the list for RED FLAGS above.

Do not file for a Visitors Visa if you are intending to to file for a K-1 Visa. When you apply for K-1 Visa the denied Visitor Visa will be a "RED FLAG". It seems the consulate looks apon any attempt to come to the USA as an attempt to commit fraud. The K-1 filing immediatly after a denied Visitor Visa attempt will not look good. They have the thought of, (you tried to trick us once with visitor visa and failed now you try to tick us again with k-1 visa)

Don't make the same naive mistake I did in thinking these people in the consulate have any idea how a "Normal" couple act. I thought, I came to your house and met your mom now you should come to my house and meet my mom. It doesn't work that way.

8 Months in AP, Fred

[decker 1]

You don't need a lawyer to do a I-129. That is the easy part. The Consulate is the tough part. We had some interesting goings-on with these folks but eventually it panned out. Make as many trips as you can in the meantime and enjoy a country not many people see. Learn her culture. Save all your boarding passes and itineraries for each time you go and submit as evidence when she goes for the interview. Take pictures as well, especially with her parents. Oh yeah.......MAKE COPIES of everything! Tell her to as well. I am dealing lost papers now.

The next how ever many months are going to be frustrating and sometimes will piss you off like no other, but you can get through it. The guide section here is very helpful and enough folks have been there to help you out.

Enjoy the ride!

[Anh map 2,098]

You don't need a lawyer to do a I-129. That is the easy part. The Consulate is the tough part. We had some interesting goings-on with these folks but eventually it panned out. Make as many trips as you can in the meantime and enjoy a country not many people see. Learn her culture. Save all your boarding passes and itineraries for each time you go and submit as evidence when she goes for the interview. Take pictures as well, especially with her parents. Oh yeah.......MAKE COPIES of everything! Tell her to as well. I am dealing lost papers now.

The next how ever many months are going to be frustrating and sometimes will piss you off like no other, but you can get through it. The guide section here is very helpful and enough folks have been there to help you out.

Enjoy the ride!