The Stimulus Didn't Work

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If the government had not intervened, the large banks would have collapsed.

Try getting a loan when there are no large banks. We would go back to the Mr Potter days.

The large banks would have collapsed and their assets would have been bought up on the cheap

by investors who would have priced them appropriately and the loans would have been quickly

renegotiated with homeowners to allow a profit to the investor. This is what happened with

Lehman Brothers.

The only losers would have been the banks' shareholders and the bond holders who loaned

the banks money.

When a company goes bankrupt, it doesn't just disappear. You're fooling yourself if you

think the bailout was meant for you, the taxpayer. There was already a mechanism in place

to protect the depositors - it's called the FDIC. You bailed out the shareholders and bond

holders of the failed banks.

Well companies shouldn't be allowed to grow so big that they are so heavily relied upon that they cannot be allowed to fail.

But there is something deeply unfair about socializing risk and privatizing the profits.

[NickD 203]

If the government had not intervened, the large banks would have collapsed.

Try getting a loan when there are no large banks. We would go back to the Mr Potter days.

The large banks would have collapsed and their assets would have been bought up on the cheap

by investors who would have priced them appropriately and the loans would have been quickly

renegotiated with homeowners to allow a profit to the investor. This is what happened with

Lehman Brothers.

The only losers would have been the banks' shareholders and the bond holders who loaned

the banks money.

When a company goes bankrupt, it doesn't just disappear. You're fooling yourself if you

think the bailout was meant for you, the taxpayer. There was already a mechanism in place

to protect the depositors - it's called the FDIC. You bailed out the shareholders and bond

holders of the failed banks.

Well companies shouldn't be allowed to grow so big that they are so heavily relied upon that they cannot be allowed to fail.

But there is something deeply unfair about socializing risk and privatizing the profits.

I did get small bonuses when I helped my company make millions, if you have friends in office, can get huge bonuses by losing millions. Middleclass seems to lack any friends in office.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Nothing will sway the Obama believers. None of them read the article but went through their usual litany of excuses. To them, Obama has somehow "saved" America and no statistics or analysis will ever convince them otherwise. For them, the only thing that counts is a national healthcare plan and to hell with everything else.

And nothing will sway those who oppose everthing that is proposed or being done. Like the Republicans in government who don't add any input, just oppose anything that isn't their idea. You guys are as bad as the sheep. The solution is somewhere in the middle. If everyone was a conservative, we'd still be living in caves. If everyone was liberal, we'll be in debt forever.

[HAL 9000 96]

Even if the stimulus worked, is working, or will work, so what?. Any economy that must be propped up for the next 10 years with nearly a trillion dollars added to the national debt each of those years by the government is nothing to be proud of.

We should then rethink the way we allow corporate interests to dictate how we live our lives then. You know... so that kind of thing doesn't happen again.

oh brother.

Where art thou?

They spent all of the money already?

Not even close.

Soooo... it hasn't not worked then yet has it?

I say give it a chance before declaring it a failure.

Indeed.

[Khadijah1 0]

lmao... i was broke before and im still broke!! go figure

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

lmao... i was broke before and im still broke!! go figure

Well, that may make you a failure but it says little about the stimulus package.

[mawilson 2,133]

lmao... i was broke before and im still broke!! go figure

Well, that may make you a failure but it says little about the stimulus package.

[mRx 16]

I'm gonna dissect your post, Pike.

Well companies shouldn't be allowed to grow so big...

This common misconception completely blinds itself to only real cause that any company grows--the consumer. No company would exist without the faithful contribution of dollars by consumers and investors. Think of it as a constantly evolving market democracy--only instead of ballots and voting machines, we use dollars. Any artificial interference with this "voting" only hurts us consumers.

The anti-trust fallacy that companies shouldn't be allowed to grow beyond a certain size is just another load of garbage originally purported by Marx--It's viability has long expired.

...that they are so heavily relied upon that...

Reliance in the economic sense isn't the same as say, how a child would rely on his mother. I don't think there is a word that can succintly define the relationship between a consumer and a company, but I think the word confidence is more apt than reliance, as confidence can grow or diminish instantaneously whereas reliance cannot.

...they cannot be allowed to fail.

Contrary to the media propaganda machine, no company is too big to fail; but they're all definitely too big to be kept on government life support. The truth is, not only can they fail, but they must fail. The profit/loss mechanism is invaluable in ensuring that scarce resources are controlled by the most capable individuals or groups.

As mawilson pointed out, Lehman Brothers is a good example of what happens when a company fails. The assets do not disappear, the employees aren't genocided, and the Earth doesn't break away from it's solar orbit.

Another good example is WaMu. They were the largest savings and loan bank in the US. They're failure resulted in their solvent assets being sold to Chase Manhatten Bank, a more capable bank.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm gonna dissect your post, Pike.

Well companies shouldn't be allowed to grow so big...

This common misconception completely blinds itself to only real cause that any company grows--the consumer. No company would exist without the faithful contribution of dollars by consumers and investors. Think of it as a constantly evolving market democracy--only instead of ballots and voting machines, we use dollars. Any artificial interference with this "voting" only hurts us consumers.

The anti-trust fallacy that companies shouldn't be allowed to grow beyond a certain size is just another load of garbage originally purported by Marx--It's viability has long expired.

...that they are so heavily relied upon that...

Reliance in the economic sense isn't the same as say, how a child would rely on his mother. I don't think there is a word that can succintly define the relationship between a consumer and a company, but I think the word confidence is more apt than reliance, as confidence can grow or diminish instantaneously whereas reliance cannot.

...they cannot be allowed to fail.

Contrary to the media propaganda machine, no company is too big to fail; but they're all definitely too big to be kept on government life support. The truth is, not only can they fail, but they must fail. The profit/loss mechanism is invaluable in ensuring that scarce resources are controlled by the most capable individuals or groups.

As mawilson pointed out, Lehman Brothers is a good example of what happens when a company fails. The assets do not disappear, the employees aren't genocided, and the Earth doesn't break away from it's solar orbit.

Another good example is WaMu. They were the largest savings and loan bank in the US. They're failure resulted in their solvent assets being sold to Chase Manhatten Bank, a more capable bank.

No offence, but I think I trust the folks with the economic background over you.

I really don't care for another "lesson" in economics 101 that ignores, sidelines or downplays the practical realities of the situation.

[zqt3344 21]

The economic numbers do not lie here Pvt Pike or are you delusional an Gene Hunt today? The stimulus was a farce and a pork barrel pet project of spending for Democrat special interests that has done nothing for Middle Class working America, and everyone knows it and the economy sucks now! Why don't you just go out here and try to find a job now Pvt Pike, would love to see you attempt that and then maybe you would see how well this Ovomit stimulus is working.

I'm gonna dissect your post, Pike.

Well companies shouldn't be allowed to grow so big...

This common misconception completely blinds itself to only real cause that any company grows--the consumer. No company would exist without the faithful contribution of dollars by consumers and investors. Think of it as a constantly evolving market democracy--only instead of ballots and voting machines, we use dollars. Any artificial interference with this "voting" only hurts us consumers.

The anti-trust fallacy that companies shouldn't be allowed to grow beyond a certain size is just another load of garbage originally purported by Marx--It's viability has long expired.

...that they are so heavily relied upon that...

Reliance in the economic sense isn't the same as say, how a child would rely on his mother. I don't think there is a word that can succintly define the relationship between a consumer and a company, but I think the word confidence is more apt than reliance, as confidence can grow or diminish instantaneously whereas reliance cannot.

...they cannot be allowed to fail.

Contrary to the media propaganda machine, no company is too big to fail; but they're all definitely too big to be kept on government life support. The truth is, not only can they fail, but they must fail. The profit/loss mechanism is invaluable in ensuring that scarce resources are controlled by the most capable individuals or groups.

As mawilson pointed out, Lehman Brothers is a good example of what happens when a company fails. The assets do not disappear, the employees aren't genocided, and the Earth doesn't break away from it's solar orbit.

Another good example is WaMu. They were the largest savings and loan bank in the US. They're failure resulted in their solvent assets being sold to Chase Manhatten Bank, a more capable bank.

No offence, but I think I trust the folks with the economic background over you.

I really don't care for another "lesson" in economics 101 that ignores, sidelines or downplays the practical realities of the situation.

[Heracles 417]

If they had not delivered a stimulus another 1 to 2 million Americans would have lost there job. The stimulus prevented a bad situation from becoming worse.

I hate to say it but most car dealerships would have closed down by now. It's all good an well to dislike a leader, as it seems to be the American way, but lets not bullshit because we don't like someone. I didn't like it when people did this during the Bush years, I certainly don't like it now either.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Booyah!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The economic numbers do not lie here Pvt Pike or are you delusional an Gene Hunt today? The stimulus was a farce and a pork barrel pet project of spending for Democrat special interests that has done nothing for Middle Class working America, and everyone knows it and the economy sucks now! Why don't you just go out here and try to find a job now Pvt Pike, would love to see you attempt that and then maybe you would see how well this Ovomit stimulus is working.

I love how you're so certain of these things without the slightest shred of proof to back it up.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Gene Hunt

[zqt3344 21]

Go try to find a job in this Ovomit stimulated economy Gene, and let us know how it goes?

The economic numbers do not lie here Pvt Pike or are you delusional an Gene Hunt today? The stimulus was a farce and a pork barrel pet project of spending for Democrat special interests that has done nothing for Middle Class working America, and everyone knows it and the economy sucks now! Why don't you just go out here and try to find a job now Pvt Pike, would love to see you attempt that and then maybe you would see how well this Ovomit stimulus is working.

I love how you're so certain of these things without the slightest shred of proof to back it up.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If they had not delivered a stimulus another 1 to 2 million Americans would have lost there job. The stimulus prevented a bad situation from becoming worse.

I hate to say it but most car dealerships would have closed down by now.

Seems to me that the stimulus prevented catastrophic job losses in the real economy.

If you're going to fall off a cliff, would you rather land on a crash mat or sharp rocks

Go try to find a job in this Ovomit stimulated economy Gene, and let us know how it goes?

The economic numbers do not lie here Pvt Pike or are you delusional an Gene Hunt today? The stimulus was a farce and a pork barrel pet project of spending for Democrat special interests that has done nothing for Middle Class working America, and everyone knows it and the economy sucks now! Why don't you just go out here and try to find a job now Pvt Pike, would love to see you attempt that and then maybe you would see how well this Ovomit stimulus is working.

I love how you're so certain of these things without the slightest shred of proof to back it up.

I'd say the same to you ZQT, but in your case you need to get an education first.

[zqt3344 21]

Gene Hunt go get a job and let us know how it goes in this Ovomit economy you so love?

If they had not delivered a stimulus another 1 to 2 million Americans would have lost there job. The stimulus prevented a bad situation from becoming worse.

I hate to say it but most car dealerships would have closed down by now.

Seems to me that the stimulus prevented catastrophic job losses in the real economy.

If you're going to fall off a cliff, would you rather land on a crash mat or sharp rocks

Go try to find a job in this Ovomit stimulated economy Gene, and let us know how it goes?

The economic numbers do not lie here Pvt Pike or are you delusional an Gene Hunt today? The stimulus was a farce and a pork barrel pet project of spending for Democrat special interests that has done nothing for Middle Class working America, and everyone knows it and the economy sucks now! Why don't you just go out here and try to find a job now Pvt Pike, would love to see you attempt that and then maybe you would see how well this Ovomit stimulus is working.

I love how you're so certain of these things without the slightest shred of proof to back it up.

I'd say the same to you ZQT, but in your case you need to get an education first.