If We Have a Revolution, Are You Prepared?

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I will take exception to only one thing. I was born and raised in Texas and now live in the "far Northeast" US. It the ONLY state that has NEVER restricted the right to carry firearms in any way...Vermont. If you think that people in Vermont do not carry guns you are very wrong. It is not the wonderful scenery that gives us a low crime rate. And same goes for New Hampshire, and Maine. Our screamin (literally) ex-Governor, Howard Dean is as strong a supporter of the second amendment as you will ever find. So, please lighten up on us with the stereotypes. If you don't believe me, try to get ANYTHING done during the deer season in this part of the world!

Also I will add, since the Col. is ignorant of such things. Most serious firearms enthusiasts are handloaders. Myself included. Given a supply of wheel weights and a stock of primers we can produce ammunition nearly indefinitely. I have been accumulating this stuff for more than 35 years. The components have an incredible shelf life if stored properly. I have an 8 lb. can of Red Dot (um, that's gunpowder, for those of you with little firearms knowledge like the Col.) I bought in 1973 and though I no longer use like I did, there is still a few pounds left that works perfectly well in light handgun loads. It has been serving to make training ammunition for my wife. Still goes "bang" every time. If Obama banned the sale of ammunition tomorrow I fail to see where it could have any affect on me in my lifetime.

It is not unusual for a shooting enthuiast to fire more than 1000 rounds per week.

There is only one reason for the low crime rate up there. Lets see if anyone can guess it. Hint: nothing to do with guns. Next hint: stereotype about cold weather.

When it comes to stockpiling of gun powder etc, well then, you must be very proud of yourself. After all, what an achievement.

I'm glad we agree. GUNS have nothing to do with crime rate. Vermont's crime rate is lower than Quebec's. Quebec has less guns and colder weather, though not where most of the population lives, it is about the same. New Hampshire has a higher crime rate. Upstate New York has a higher crime rate, Maine has a higher crime rate in fact, every state has a higher cime rate, even the cold states like Minnesota.

So if we follow your logic high crime states should legislate colder weather rather than gun laws. Great idea.

[rebeccajo 14]

Gary -

Just thought you should know that Steven owns guns.

[Ban Hammer 14,665]

Gary -

Just thought you should know that Steven owns guns.

[rebeccajo 14]

Gary -

Just thought you should know that Steven owns guns.

No, that one is mine.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

I will take exception to only one thing. I was born and raised in Texas and now live in the "far Northeast" US. It the ONLY state that has NEVER restricted the right to carry firearms in any way...Vermont. If you think that people in Vermont do not carry guns you are very wrong. It is not the wonderful scenery that gives us a low crime rate. And same goes for New Hampshire, and Maine. Our screamin (literally) ex-Governor, Howard Dean is as strong a supporter of the second amendment as you will ever find. So, please lighten up on us with the stereotypes. If you don't believe me, try to get ANYTHING done during the deer season in this part of the world!

Also I will add, since the Col. is ignorant of such things. Most serious firearms enthusiasts are handloaders. Myself included. Given a supply of wheel weights and a stock of primers we can produce ammunition nearly indefinitely. I have been accumulating this stuff for more than 35 years. The components have an incredible shelf life if stored properly. I have an 8 lb. can of Red Dot (um, that's gunpowder, for those of you with little firearms knowledge like the Col.) I bought in 1973 and though I no longer use like I did, there is still a few pounds left that works perfectly well in light handgun loads. It has been serving to make training ammunition for my wife. Still goes "bang" every time. If Obama banned the sale of ammunition tomorrow I fail to see where it could have any affect on me in my lifetime.

It is not unusual for a shooting enthuiast to fire more than 1000 rounds per week.

There is only one reason for the low crime rate up there. Lets see if anyone can guess it. Hint: nothing to do with guns. Next hint: stereotype about cold weather.

When it comes to stockpiling of gun powder etc, well then, you must be very proud of yourself. After all, what an achievement.

I do not "stockpile" When I find good prices on what I use regualrly, I buy in quantity to save money. I buy 96 rolls of toilet paper at Costco also, I do not "stockpile" toilet paper. When you find a tire store that is willing to give you their cast off wheel weights, they want you to atkae ALL of them, not leave them some to deal with disposing. Environmentalist regulations make lead wheel weights difficult to dispose of, so why not give them to handloaders like me. SInce they are destined to be phased out (I see alot of the lead free ones now) it would be wise for me to lay in as many "free" bullets as I can. I do not consider it an acheievment, really, just a side affect of doing this for so long.

As for the reasons for Vermont's low crime...such things do not escape notice and the low crime here has been studied six ways from Sunday. The top three reasons for our low crime? You are correct...guns have nothing to do with it, but neither does weather and you WON'T like the answer

1. High education rate. 81 % high school graduation rate. Higher college education rate than any state. Only DC has a higher level of college graduates.

2. Low population density. Vermont is one of three states with under 1 million people.

3. Homogenous population. 97.5% white, European background. Mostly English and French. Oh, that one gets you doesn't it? Just reporting the facts. Guns and weather have nothing to do with it.

I would suggest those areas with high crime...

1. Educate the population, FORCE it on them if needed. I would much prepfer forced education to health care, even low quality government education is preferable to none

2. Reduce the population of the city, state, etc. Ship people out. What d'ya think?

3. Make the population homogenous. Bussing maybe?

OR you could continue to pretend guns have something to do with it. Yeah, I guess you will go with that. The real reasons of crime and the real solution would take too much money and work. Besides, it would result in an educated and independent population that would be like Vermonters and want to own guns!!!!! Yikes! Not good, eh?

Gary -

Just thought you should know that Steven owns guns.

Mine is bigger. Who is Steven?

[rebeccajo 14]

Mine is bigger. Who is Steven?

The Colonel.

[Heracles 417]

There is only one reason for the low crime rate up there. Lets see if anyone can guess it. Hint: nothing to do with guns. Next hint: stereotype about cold weather.

When it comes to stockpiling of gun powder etc, well then, you must be very proud of yourself. After all, what an achievement.

I do not "stockpile" When I find good prices on what I use regualrly, I buy in quantity to save money. I buy 96 rolls of toilet paper at Costco also, I do not "stockpile" toilet paper. When you find a tire store that is willing to give you their cast off wheel weights, they want you to atkae ALL of them, not leave them some to deal with disposing. Environmentalist regulations make lead wheel weights difficult to dispose of, so why not give them to handloaders like me. SInce they are destined to be phased out (I see alot of the lead free ones now) it would be wise for me to lay in as many "free" bullets as I can. I do not consider it an acheievment, really, just a side affect of doing this for so long.

As for the reasons for Vermont's low crime...such things do not escape notice and the low crime here has been studied six ways from Sunday. The top three reasons for our low crime? You are correct...guns have nothing to do with it, but neither does weather and you WON'T like the answer

1. High education rate. 81 % high school graduation rate. Higher college education rate than any state. Only DC has a higher level of college graduates.

2. Low population density. Vermont is one of three states with under 1 million people.

3. Homogenous population. 97.5% white, European background. Mostly English and French. Oh, that one gets you doesn't it? Just reporting the facts. Guns and weather have nothing to do with it.

I would suggest those areas with high crime...

1. Educate the population, FORCE it on them if needed. I would much prepfer forced education to health care, even low quality government education is preferable to none

2. Reduce the population of the city, state, etc. Ship people out. What d'ya think?

3. Make the population homogenous. Bussing maybe?

OR you could continue to pretend guns have something to do with it. Yeah, I guess you will go with that. The real reasons of crime and the real solution would take too much money and work. Besides, it would result in an educated and independent population that would be like Vermonters and want to own guns!!!!! Yikes! Not good, eh?

You hit the nail on the head there. Point three is the skeleton in the closet that many here refuse to accept, let alone discuss. However, I think this is a cultural / attitude issue. I saw it first hand the other day when I was watching the first 48, and the police were interviewing two young men who had just shot an individual in a busy grocery store car park. They seriously acted like shooting someone was as normal as someone buying milk.

Edited September 14, 2009 by Booyah!

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Mine is bigger. Who is Steven?

The Colonel.

Obviously, then, ownership of firearms does not impart knowledge. I never thought it did. He would know better than to ask someone who makes their own, how much ammunition they have. Who could possibly say? How many bullets in a 5 gallon pail of wheelweights? I could count the pails if he likes. I could also count pails of empty casings, each being good for 10-15 reloads with proper care and if you aren't trying to bust a gut with the powder charge. I never try to make an '06 into a .300 magnum. That's what they make .300 magnums for. Or better, a .338. I mean c'mon, if an '06 won't fix the problem, you are gonna need a lot more bullet anyway! Making the same bullet get there faster isn't gonna solve anything.

Steven ought to know this.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I think you spend way too much time in the deep, dark recesses of the internet.

What? You don't believe that there's a growing movement towards a violent overthrow of our government? This is not the time to turn a blind eye, peejay.

Having grown up and come of age in the late 1960's and early 1970's your present assertions are a bit of a yawner.

Janet Reno's shenanigans in the 1990's make what is going on now look kind of tame. Waco, Ruby Ridge, Elian Gonzalez, etc.

Ditto. Us baby boomers have already been thru several revolutions. No big deal.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

There is only one reason for the low crime rate up there. Lets see if anyone can guess it. Hint: nothing to do with guns. Next hint: stereotype about cold weather.

When it comes to stockpiling of gun powder etc, well then, you must be very proud of yourself. After all, what an achievement.

I do not "stockpile" When I find good prices on what I use regualrly, I buy in quantity to save money. I buy 96 rolls of toilet paper at Costco also, I do not "stockpile" toilet paper. When you find a tire store that is willing to give you their cast off wheel weights, they want you to atkae ALL of them, not leave them some to deal with disposing. Environmentalist regulations make lead wheel weights difficult to dispose of, so why not give them to handloaders like me. SInce they are destined to be phased out (I see alot of the lead free ones now) it would be wise for me to lay in as many "free" bullets as I can. I do not consider it an acheievment, really, just a side affect of doing this for so long.

As for the reasons for Vermont's low crime...such things do not escape notice and the low crime here has been studied six ways from Sunday. The top three reasons for our low crime? You are correct...guns have nothing to do with it, but neither does weather and you WON'T like the answer

1. High education rate. 81 % high school graduation rate. Higher college education rate than any state. Only DC has a higher level of college graduates.

2. Low population density. Vermont is one of three states with under 1 million people.

3. Homogenous population. 97.5% white, European background. Mostly English and French. Oh, that one gets you doesn't it? Just reporting the facts. Guns and weather have nothing to do with it.

I would suggest those areas with high crime...

1. Educate the population, FORCE it on them if needed. I would much prepfer forced education to health care, even low quality government education is preferable to none

2. Reduce the population of the city, state, etc. Ship people out. What d'ya think?

3. Make the population homogenous. Bussing maybe?

OR you could continue to pretend guns have something to do with it. Yeah, I guess you will go with that. The real reasons of crime and the real solution would take too much money and work. Besides, it would result in an educated and independent population that would be like Vermonters and want to own guns!!!!! Yikes! Not good, eh?

You hit the nail on the head there. Point three is the skeleton in the closet that many here refuse to accept, let alone discuss. However, I think this is a cultural / attitude issue. I saw it first hand the other day when I was watching the first 48, and the police were interviewing two young men who had just shot an individual in a busy grocery store car park. They seriously acted like shooting someone was as normal as someone buying milk.

A shooting in a grocery store in Vermont would have a marked impact on the annual crime rate. The local historical museum puts their donation "kettle" on the sidewalk in fron of the outdoor display, no one steals the money. My home does not even have locks, I don't mean I don't use the locks, I mean it does not have them! Passage set on the front door, like a closet door. If someone wants to break in, why should I pay to fix the door? I never get "locked out" LOL

[Ban Hammer 14,665]

Mine is bigger. Who is Steven?

The Colonel.

Obviously, then, ownership of firearms does not impart knowledge. I never thought it did. He would know better than to ask someone who makes their own, how much ammunition they have. Who could possibly say? How many bullets in a 5 gallon pail of wheelweights? I could count the pails if he likes. I could also count pails of empty casings, each being good for 10-15 reloads with proper care and if you aren't trying to bust a gut with the powder charge. I never try to make an '06 into a .300 magnum. That's what they make .300 magnums for. Or better, a .338. I mean c'mon, if an '06 won't fix the problem, you are gonna need a lot more bullet anyway! Making the same bullet get there faster isn't gonna solve anything.

Steven ought to know this.

although a 30-06 can make a 25-06

[rebeccajo 14]

Mine is bigger. Who is Steven?

The Colonel.

Obviously, then, ownership of firearms does not impart knowledge. I never thought it did. He would know better than to ask someone who makes their own, how much ammunition they have. Who could possibly say? How many bullets in a 5 gallon pail of wheelweights? I could count the pails if he likes. I could also count pails of empty casings, each being good for 10-15 reloads with proper care and if you aren't trying to bust a gut with the powder charge. I never try to make an '06 into a .300 magnum. That's what they make .300 magnums for. Or better, a .338. I mean c'mon, if an '06 won't fix the problem, you are gonna need a lot more bullet anyway! Making the same bullet get there faster isn't gonna solve anything.

Steven ought to know this.

although a 30-06 can make a 25-06

Hehe......

This ought to be good.

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

Mine is bigger. Who is Steven?

The Colonel.

Obviously, then, ownership of firearms does not impart knowledge. I never thought it did. He would know better than to ask someone who makes their own, how much ammunition they have. Who could possibly say? How many bullets in a 5 gallon pail of wheelweights? I could count the pails if he likes. I could also count pails of empty casings, each being good for 10-15 reloads with proper care and if you aren't trying to bust a gut with the powder charge. I never try to make an '06 into a .300 magnum. That's what they make .300 magnums for. Or better, a .338. I mean c'mon, if an '06 won't fix the problem, you are gonna need a lot more bullet anyway! Making the same bullet get there faster isn't gonna solve anything.

Steven ought to know this.

although a 30-06 can make a 25-06

That's true. But no one bothers with that anymore Chuck. In the 50's and 60's before Big Grenn legitimized the .25 and '06 surplus brass was plentiful it was a good idea, now it is just an extra exercise. .25-06 cases are just as pletiful and cheap as .30-06 anymore. I also gave up fire forming .35 Whelens when they were legitimized also. On the other hand I still make .35 WCF cases from .30-40, they are bit short but work just fine in an 1895 Winchester, as they headspace on the rim anyway, so who misses the case length? Just seat the bullets out and you're good to go! It isn't like the Model 95 has a tube magazine or anything to muck up the OAL of the cartridge! You gotta love that! Much cheaper than buying semi-custom .35 cases. Which MEANS...more cartridges in stockpile for less money!

I don't know if Steven knew, that us handloaders can even make our own cartridge casings from others. OMG that adds a whole dimension I hadn't thought of!

[Heracles 417]

A shooting in a grocery store in Vermont would have a marked impact on the annual crime rate. The local historical museum puts their donation "kettle" on the sidewalk in fron of the outdoor display, no one steals the money. My home does not even have locks, I don't mean I don't use the locks, I mean it does not have them! Passage set on the front door, like a closet door. If someone wants to break in, why should I pay to fix the door? I never get "locked out" LOL

A shooting in DC, particularly the east end occurs once every few days. Some days we are lucky enough to have two or three shot the same day. Is anything every done? Nope. apparently any proactive law enforcement is being racist and violates the constitution. Whereas, dying or being killed does not. That is just collateral damaged of freedom to some. DC is a city yet I can count the number of cameras on my one hand.

Demographics or DC in comparison to Vermont:

According to the 2007 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, the population distribution of Washington, D.C. is 55.6% Black or African American, 36.3% White, 3.1% Asian, and 0.2% American Indian. Individuals from some other race made up 4.8% of the District's population while individuals from two or more races made up 1.6%. In addition, Hispanics made up 8.3% of the District's population across all races. There were also an estimated 74,000 foreign immigrants living in Washington, D.C. in 2007.[69] Major sources of immigration include individuals from El Salvador, Vietnam, and Ethiopia, with some concentration of Salvadorans in the Mount Pleasant neighborhood.[70]

Edited September 14, 2009 by Booyah!

[Gary and Alla 3,696]

A shooting in a grocery store in Vermont would have a marked impact on the annual crime rate. The local historical museum puts their donation "kettle" on the sidewalk in fron of the outdoor display, no one steals the money. My home does not even have locks, I don't mean I don't use the locks, I mean it does not have them! Passage set on the front door, like a closet door. If someone wants to break in, why should I pay to fix the door? I never get "locked out" LOL

A shooting in DC, particularly the east end occurs once every few days. Some days we are lucky enough to have two or three shot the same day. Is anything every done? Nope. apparently any proactive law enforcement is being racist and violates the constitution. Whereas, dying or being killed does not. That is just collateral damaged of freedom to some. DC is a city yet I can count the number of cameras on my one hand.

Demographics or DC in comparison to Vermont:

According to the 2007 American Community Survey conducted by the U.S. Census Bureau, the population distribution of Washington, D.C. is 55.6% Black or African American, 36.3% White, 3.1% Asian, and 0.2% American Indian.

It is very difficult for law enforcement in Vermont to be "racist" Vermont has 2.5% minority population, almost all of which live in Burlignton/Chittenden County. I cannot remember the breakdown of the "minorities", there was a recent report on it in the newspaper. It has the lowest percentage of spanish speaking people in the country (Russian is a more common language than Spanish but ranks far behind English and French as 1 and 2)

Edited September 14, 2009 by Gary and Alla