Drunk Driving and Visiting on VWP

[Fandango 1,439]

A friend of mine comes here every year in Oct for a few days. We were just chatting online and this is what she said:

got done for drink driving on way home from friends - next day tho I don't rink and then get in the car. I was on way home next day got flat tyre and the police stopped and the rest is history, 18 month ban, £500 fine and £200 to do a course to reduce ban, I don't know if i will be able to get into usa now ????

So, since I never got that far into my visa journey, I have no clue on what she should do next.

Help!

[familyguy 2]

She has to apply for a visa as she is now ineligible for VWP

Edited August 17, 2009 by familyguy

[broma25 2]

Why cant she use VWP anymore?

[D&R 0]

Why cant she use VWP anymore?

You have to be able to answer NO to all the questions on the I-94. Question B is... Have you ever been arrest or convicted for an offense or crime involving oral turptitude or a violation related to a controlled substance. I did some research, and it seems that there's no definate answer on this one. Is alcohol a controlled substance? Not really, but you need a licence to sell it, so maybe it is. Is drink driving a crime or 'morale turtitude'? Maybe, depends how you see it.

Some people have travelled and been fine, others have been sent home. An interview with the US embassy would answer your question, and hopefully get you a Visa. I'm not sure I'd want to risk travelling without knowing for sure I was OK, but that's just me.

Lots of grey... very little black and white

[D&R 0]

I just found this post on a different site. I know it's about drink driving and a K1 Visa, but I'd assume it would be the same thing really.

I hope this helps...

Don't know if you read my post the other day, but it was about me making

a K1 Fiancee visa application with a drink driving conviction.

Anyway It sparked quite a debate, and no one seemed to have a definate

answer whether it would or wouldn't effect my application. Also some

speculated whether it was or wasn't a CRIME INVOLVING MORAL TURPITUDE

(CIMT). Well I wrote to a specialist U.S. Immigration lawyer in London

and got this answer, case closed:

"Will this drink driving conviction in your experience be a problem with

my application for the K1 visa"

A conviction for drink driving in the UK is not a conviction of a crime

involving moral turpitude and cannot by itself result in the denial of a

visa application.

Edward Gudeon

Gudeon & Hodkinson

19/20 Grosvenor Street

London W1K 4QH

[Nik+Heather 121]

From the department of state:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

Page 5, Crimes which do NOT fall under crimes of Moral Turpitude:

(6) Drunk or Reckless Driving.

[Krikit 1,164]

Are you asking from an immigration or a tourist perspective? Here is the answer if entering as a tourist: CBP FAQ - DUI.

If applying for a family visa then it's waiverable.... with a lot of IF/THEN scenarios, of course.

[Fandango 1,439]

tourist only, K

Thanks guys, you rawk!

[D&R 0]

From the department of state:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

Page 5, Crimes which do NOT fall under crimes of Moral Turpitude:

(6) Drunk or Reckless Driving.

Wow! No. 8. You're even allowed to come there if you've escaped from prison?!

[Fandango 1,439]

and you can be a loan shark too!

[familyguy 2]

From the department of state:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

Page 5, Crimes which do NOT fall under crimes of Moral Turpitude:

(6) Drunk or Reckless Driving.

People always concentrate on the moral turpitude argument. It has been ruled on both ways and is not as clear cut as your link suggests, particularly where there are aggravating circumstances.

The other problem with a drink drive conviction is the American attitude towards alcohol as a drug. If the conviction is within 3 years then you may well be classed as a drug abuser which puts a whole different slant on things and provides a much higher wall to climb over than a CIMT.

[Nik+Heather 121]

From the department of state:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

Page 5, Crimes which do NOT fall under crimes of Moral Turpitude:

(6) Drunk or Reckless Driving.

People always concentrate on the moral turpitude argument. It has been ruled on both ways and is not as clear cut as your link suggests, particularly where there are aggravating circumstances.

The other problem with a drink drive conviction is the American attitude towards alcohol as a drug. If the conviction is within 3 years then you may well be classed as a drug abuser which puts a whole different slant on things and provides a much higher wall to climb over than a CIMT.

That may be true for visa applicants, but the quoted document is put out by the state department, and refers specifically to what does and does not qualify for the VWP. The question was regarding VWP, where people are asked to self identify, and this documentation pretty clearly states what is and is not counted as moral turpitude.

[familyguy 2]

From the department of state:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf

Page 5, Crimes which do NOT fall under crimes of Moral Turpitude:

(6) Drunk or Reckless Driving.

People always concentrate on the moral turpitude argument. It has been ruled on both ways and is not as clear cut as your link suggests, particularly where there are aggravating circumstances.

The other problem with a drink drive conviction is the American attitude towards alcohol as a drug. If the conviction is within 3 years then you may well be classed as a drug abuser which puts a whole different slant on things and provides a much higher wall to climb over than a CIMT.

That may be true for visa applicants, but the quoted document is put out by the state department, and refers specifically to what does and does not qualify for the VWP. The question was regarding VWP, where people are asked to self identify, and this documentation pretty clearly states what is and is not counted as moral turpitude.

Not quite. Their is no "self identification" the US state department makes that for you

Who is eligible for VWP?

Nationals of VWP countries must meet the conditions noted in the section above in order to seek admission to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program. Travelers who do not meet these conditions must apply for a visa. In particular, a visa must be requested if the traveler:

....................

Has a criminal record or other condition making them ineligible for a visa (see Classes of Aliens Ineligible for Visas).

...........................

http://travel.state.gov/visa/temp/without/...ml#travelertype

Note the "OTHER CONDITION" REQUIREMENT.

The Department of State has recently issued a cable, "Guidance On Processing Visa Applicants With Drunk Driving Hits" (AILA InfoNet Doc. No. 07071670 (posted Jul. 16, 2007), requiring consular officers to refer nonimmigrant visa applicants with prior drunk driving issues to panel physicians for medical examination in the following circumstances:

(1) if an applicant has a single drunk driving arrest or conviction within the last three calendar years, or

(2) if the applicant has two or more drunk driving arrests or drunk driving convictions in any time period.

Consular officers must now also refer applicants to panel physicians if there is any other evidence to suggest an alcohol problem (emphasis added). The directive is not discretionary. For example, it is now likely that an arrest for public intoxication at any time could trigger this new directive.

http://www.sandiegodrunkdrivingattorney.ne...mmigration.html

One thing about the US government and the state department in particular is that they are consistent about being inconsistent.

Can the OP's friend fail to declare the conviction and enter the US without difficulty? Probably. Will it come back and bite them on the backside at some later point in their life? Possibly. Know the risks and place your bets. One way to avoid any complications is to disclose it, apply for a visa and have a definative answer. Travelling on the VWP and having this come up at the port of entry leaves the traveller in a very bad place with no real rights and a swift ride home, I am not sure I would want to adivse someone to go down that path. Better safe than sorry, claiming but I read on the interwebs I was OK won't really cut, There HAVE been cases where DUI IS a CIMT we do not have enough info to know if this is one of them.

Edited August 19, 2009 by familyguy

[Fandango 1,439]

Well, my friend and I were v happy to see this thread's answers until familyguy's last post, lol. So she's decided that while she could play semantics and take her chances, her best bet is to file for a visitor's visa.

Thanks for the great info peeps! Your time was v appreciated