President Reagan speaks about Socialized medicine.

[HAL 9000 96]

As do I.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

earning a degree means a person knows when to come in out of the rain cause they are getting wet?

do try to stay with the issue.

Sure as heck means you have more of a clue than some factory worker. As I said, many should stick to what they know. same way I wouldn't come tell you which gun is the best. I could probably fire it better than you but could not discuss the gun.

More proof that liberals have utter contempt for middle-class workers that they claim to be supporting during campaigns. "You're dumb, I'm smart"

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

earning a degree means a person knows when to come in out of the rain cause they are getting wet?

do try to stay with the issue.

Sure as heck means you have more of a clue than some factory worker. As I said, many should stick to what they know. same way I wouldn't come tell you which gun is the best. I could probably fire it better than you but could not discuss the gun.

More proof that liberals have utter contempt for middle-class workers that they claim to be supporting during campaigns. "You're dumb, I'm smart"

He isn't a liberal.

[Joseph & Ana 0]

I'll be the judge of that.

If things are so great in those countries that you people list for examples of wonderful socialized medicine, then why don't you move there? Go to the wonderful utopian Socialized medicine countries instead of trying to come here, or bring your SO here. 65% of us are happy with our healthcare and insurance - we won't accept changing it.

65%, really? So 1 in 3 is unhappy? Not very impressive.

I bet that statistic is as firmly grounded as the one about Rush's 98.8% accuracy rating (which is apparently "well documented").

Actually this one is common knowledge with all the polls going around. I knew the 98.8% would tweak you and you would focus in and continue your derangement syndrome as all liberals do. I was actually wrong though, I'm reading the study now and its 98.6% - sorry. I'll continue to not post the link to it so you can remain obsessed.

Also, 1 in 3 aren't satisfied means that the majority is satisfied and all you libs like majority rule when you're in power, but when you're not, it just gets to you doesn't it? Pesky will of the people thing gets in your way.

I never said to do nothing. However, a government option is not a good idea. I think the government can do plenty to encourage price competition among private entities, but a government mandated system is not the right thing to do.

Joe - I don't think many people besides you seriously believes that Rush Limbaugh is 98.8, 98.6 or any other arbitrary percentage figure of accuracy. So I'm not surprised you won't substantiate it - for the simple reason that:

1) It doesn't exist

2) You are a liar

If you think I take it seriously, you are sadly mistaken. I like it because its proves, if nothing else that you personally are 98.8% delusional

Keep on with the libs stuff BTW - I get a huge laugh out of that too.

Just as i get a chuckle out of your obsession.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Then we all have something to laugh at. See who says people can't get along!

[HAL 9000 96]

earning a degree means a person knows when to come in out of the rain cause they are getting wet?

do try to stay with the issue.

Sure as heck means you have more of a clue than some factory worker. As I said, many should stick to what they know. same way I wouldn't come tell you which gun is the best. I could probably fire it better than you but could not discuss the gun.

More proof that liberals have utter contempt for middle-class workers that they claim to be supporting during campaigns. "You're dumb, I'm smart"

He isn't a liberal.

[_Simpson_ 250]

earning a degree means a person knows when to come in out of the rain cause they are getting wet?

do try to stay with the issue.

Sure as heck means you have more of a clue than some factory worker. As I said, many should stick to what they know. same way I wouldn't come tell you which gun is the best. I could probably fire it better than you but could not discuss the gun.

Does it really? What about all those "rich bastards"(your words not mine) that you work with, do they have a clue? Do they have a degree?

I agree with Natty, please do try to stay with the issue.

[Heracles 417]

More proof that liberals have utter contempt for middle-class workers that they claim to be supporting during campaigns. "You're dumb, I'm smart"

I'm more right wing than you entire family combined, however, I'm certainly not going to buy this right wing yank bull ####### on health care reform.

So now the liberals have contempt for the middle-class. Strange considering which party the unions support. Please don't pretend the republican party is for the common man.

Common sense, this reform is most beneficial for middle-class blue collar workers yet you guys are the one bitching the most. Unbelievable really. Sorry that is just dumb, no other way to put it. Unless blue collar workers are earning what they earn in Aus. Which judging by the sheer poverty, I highly doubt. I would be begging this reform goes through. Just remember, it is blue collar workers that have been hit the hardest from this crisis, not me.

Does it really? What about all those "rich bastards"(your words not mine) that you work with, do they have a clue? Do they have a degree?

I agree with Natty, please do try to stay with the issue.

Your right, they don't want reform. The current system works well for them and they certainly don't give a ####### about any yank middle-class family.

Thanks for proving my point. I had forgotten about that angle.

Edited August 14, 2009 by haza

[mawilson 2,133]

Bunch of BS rhetoric. Fact, you don't have the best medical system in the world. So don't give me this bull ####### that the hc system will be nationalized and turned to ######.

Even if it's crappy today - as many people believe - they don't want a cure that's worse than the disease.

The government may have the best interests of the public in mind, but they really do fail in terms of

execution and the result is usually a massive amount of spending and waste. Yes - even worse than

the private sector (which is wasteful enough.)

[nowhereman 1]

earning a degree means a person knows when to come in out of the rain cause they are getting wet?

do try to stay with the issue.

Sure as heck means you have more of a clue than some factory worker. As I said, many should stick to what they know. same way I wouldn't come tell you which gun is the best. I could probably fire it better than you but could not discuss the gun.

More proof that liberals have utter contempt for middle-class workers that they claim to be supporting during campaigns. "You're dumb, I'm smart"

Ummm lots of people in the middle class are democrats, so please tone down the rhetoric. Also the Rush being correct 98% of the time is just nonsense. Most of what he says is based on opinion, not fact, so you can't say that an opinion is "correct". If I said Obama is a socialist or abortion is unethical they would be opinions. Please show me some examples of what Limbaugh has said that is fact, not opinion. I'm sure its a short list.

[luckytxn 2,265]

No the ones that will get the most out of this giveaway will be the lower middle class to the poor, the bedrock of the Socialists. The middle class blue collar workers are the one with insurance now and it is their taxes that will be paying for the giveaways.

[Peikko 1,575]

With the August recess underway, the healthcare battle is in its final push, and opponents of reform are resorting to increasingly fuzzy logic and misinformation to support their cause.

Leave alone the preposterous talking points about "death panels", "socialism", "a government takeover", and so on – these wretched tactics need not be dignified. Rather, let's focus on what the "serious" opponents of reform are arguing.

Many of them flatly reject the notion that healthcare is a moral right. Like other conservatives, John David Lewis of Duke University dismisses the "moral goal of equality" as incompatible with economic realities of healthcare.

Unfortunately for Lewis and his cohorts, the moral and economic realities of healthcare are highly attuned; the problem is that both the present structure and the ideal conservative one don't adequately address either dimension.

Health Affairs found last year that more than 100,000 Americans die every year from preventable illnesses – the highest of any industrialised country. The study also said they would probably be alive if they were living in France, where they wouldn't have been denied care. The US can prevent these deaths, and as other industrialised countries demonstrate, it is easily doable.

Embracing a system in which people die from neglect is morally indefensible, particularly in a country that guarantees the right to life and has the resources to carry out this promise.

Lewis, true to his ideology, attributes the failures in the healthcare system to "50 years of increasing government interventions", decreeing government involvement as "the fundamental cause of the problem".

The flaw in Lewis's argument is glaring when noting that the US spends far more per capitapercentage of GDP) on healthcare than the rest of the developed world, while every other industrialised country has much stronger government presence in healthcare. (and as a Along with lower costs, they also achieve universal coverage, and tend to enjoy higher satisfaction rates.

Anti-reformers also like to cite Medicare, as Lewis does, as a symbol of the American healthcare system run amok, and often blame it for the spiralling costs.

The facts, however, say otherwise. Before Medicare was created, half of all seniors lacked insurance and 35% lived in poverty; today, seniors have universal care and poverty among them has dropped by two-thirds. It's a reasonable safety net for people when their medical expenses are highest and incomes lowest. Medicare patients also report higher satisfaction with their healthcare than people on private insurance.

And, despite Medicare's funding problems, it has still performed better than the private system. Healthcare costs really took off in the 1980s, after supply-side oriented deregulation gave insurance companies the freedom to charge patients exorbitant premiums and out-of-pocket costs while denying coverage to sick people and patients with pre-existing conditions. Peter Orszag, a lauded economist and White House budget director, has explained why today's private-dominated health system is the main force plunging the United States into bankruptcy.

Conservatives believe the free market is the solution to fix health care (and all other social problems). But any for-profit insurance structure is conceptually at odds with the demands of public health – it isn't profitable to take care of the poor or the sick. This is a basic economic reality. They get away with it because unlike other commodities, healthcare is often a matter of life and death.

As Paul Krugman points out, the only reason this healthcare structure works at all is government regulations that keep dirty tricks somewhat in check. Eliminating these basic rules will provide not only legal cover but stronger incentives for the industry to fleece the public on an even greater level.

The problem with America's healthcare system is not socialism – it is excessive capitalism. And with common-sense reforms like a public option, which would compete with private insurers and hold down costs, the US can take an important step toward achieving both the moral and economic goals of health care.

Link

[rebeccajo 14]

If there ever was a place and time for NHC do you honestly think that right now it that time to try and push this through, considering the economic state of this country

Great Britian began the NHS right after WWII, when their nation was on the verge of bankruptcy.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If there ever was a place and time for NHC do you honestly think that right now it that time to try and push this through, considering the economic state of this country

Great Britian began the NHS right after WWII, when their nation was on the verge of bankruptcy.

[mawilson 2,133]

I am dishonest? I am dishonest for pointing out the fact that there are plenty of real world examples of how universal health care coverage does not lead to socialized medicine? Let me tell you that the only dishonest person in our little exhange is you for making a claim for which there isn't a shred of factual evidence. Not a shred. If there is evidence that supports your claim, please present it. Can't wait to see.

Who lives longer? Australians of Americans. Clearly, their NHS works pretty well for them. To that point you could say better. Hence, the living longer.

Aus has a public/private system and is actually looking at reforming towards the type of system Obama is proposing.