President Reagan speaks about Socialized medicine.

[rebeccajo 14]

Why do people believe that we can insure 40-50 million people overnight without serious repercussions?

These 40-50 million people didn't become uninsured overnight.

For example, the climate act proposes to reduce US greenhouse gas emissions by 20 percent by 2020,

40 percent by 2030, and by 80 percent by 2050. No-one suggested, "hey, let's do it tomorrow".

Why not take it slow - set coverage targets and gradually expand Medicare to the uninsured?

I would imagine because these people are getting treatments as things stands, just not paying for them - we the insured are and it's NOT CHEAP!!! - and they are getting 'emergency care' (most expensive) not preventative and first response care (most often cheapest) and the most expensive patients (those who are elderly and in the final year of life) are covered by medicaid.

None of the countries that adopted universal health care systems were either bankrupted or subjected to shoddy service on instigation of their systems either.

I know four individuals who have outstanding medical debt.

One young man - a life threatening accident while he was insured - still owes over $20K.

One young woman who recently gave birth while insured - $16K still outstanding.

One young wife whose uninsured husband needed cataract surgery on one eye - $17K after a reduction for charity care.

One young unisured woman who had a pre-cancerous lump removed from her breast three weeks ago - medical bills so far $25K and rising.

These people will try to pay on these debts. I would venture a guess that much of it will go unpaid.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

None of the countries that adopted universal health care systems were either bankrupted or subjected to shoddy service on instigation of their systems either.

Wrong. The UK is so bankrupt that it won't even exist soon!

[Joseph & Ana 0]

What if... For example... I don't want to pay into health-insurance. ( i actually do, and i have coverage - beside the point) Will the government allow me to choose not to have insurance, as many of the 45 milion don't?

I mean you're talking about completely throwing out the current system, because 45 million aren't covered, when there are nearly 400million americans. Why should all of us change because 45 million aren't insured?

[mawilson 2,133]

Why do people believe that we can insure 40-50 million people overnight without serious repercussions?

These 40-50 million people didn't become uninsured overnight.

For example, the climate act proposes to reduce US greenhouse gas emissions by 20 percent by 2020,

40 percent by 2030, and by 80 percent by 2050. No-one suggested, "hey, let's do it tomorrow".

Why not take it slow - set coverage targets and gradually expand Medicare to the uninsured?

I would imagine because these people are getting treatments as things stands, just not paying for them - we the insured are and it's NOT CHEAP!!!

But we are already paying for them. Insuring everyone would not make things cheaper -

maybe 10-20 years down the road (and that's a big "maybe"), but certainly not today.

In fact, it would cost us a staggering ONE TRILLION dollars - more than the GDP of Australia!

If we're not going to see any cost savings for another 10-20 years and a huge cost upfront,

why not amortize the upfront costs over the next 10-20 years?

[Danno 1,228]

Or, it will not. I tend to read what's actually written.

So with out it be written down you cant follow the logical road?

Or we could actually pay attention to what's on the table.

But...but...fear-mongering is the easiest way to deflect attention from an issue...and it's more fun too!

It is very sad to think of how many more bankrupt Americans we'll see this year thanks to ridiculous expenses that even 'good' insurance can't/won't cover.

Theres more ppl bankrupted by credit card abuse than healthcare by a long ways. Are there two types of bankruptcy? Get real! Bankruptcy can be caused by lots of things. Your argument dont wash.

Roughly 2 out of 3 bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills. That's a clear majority of the cases.

So all these people who are having no problem paying their house note but not the few bucks the Doctors/ hospitals will accept each month?

The truth is a lot of these people are "dumping" their medical bills via Bankrupt court.

[Empress of Groovy 373]

What alternatives to a public option do you propose for the uninsured that want insurance to avoid catastrophic debt when they fall ill?

HAve you ever priced how reasonable this type of insurance is... or are you just repeating the same thing over and over?

I priced it yesterday and it was low $200s a month.

I'm not an insurance guru so you try it yourself and tell me what you get.

Nationalhealthaccess.com

Have you looked at the specifics of such a plan? I suspect it's a high-deductible plan for a healthy person that covers expenses at a rate of 70% or so. Which isn't terribly generous. Even group plans that pay for 90% of "covered expenses" (another topic altogether) are perceived as generous, but if you find yourself with a complicated illness or injury, you learn how quickly even 10% can add up. That's in addition to ever-increasing premiums, of course. And that's if they decide to cover you at all.

For sh!ts and giggles:

(1) Pretend you're a cancer survivor who wants an individual plan so he can go into business for himself. See what you're offered and what's covered.

(1) Pretend you're a woman of child-bearing age (not pregnant) who is interested in an individual policy with maternity coverage. See what it covers and how long you have to be insured before the maternity benefits kick in.

[HAL 9000 96]

proof?

who? me?

No.

At least you try to rationalize according to your beliefs. Although I did remind you that telepathy and politics don't go well- at least yet.

If you set a wheel upright on a empty street that is on a hill you don't need telepathy to know what that tire will do.

So you see a hill... interesting...

I do and it leads right into to a busy intersection. Poor tire!

That's what you get for first thinking the street is empty without considering the streets it intersects.

And in the bills thus far, the street you're on has signs that you're not reading.

[rebeccajo 14]

So all these people who are having no problem paying their house note but not the few bucks the Doctors/ hospitals will accept each month?

The truth is a lot of these people are "dumping" their medical bills via Bankrupt court.

It doesn't take much for the medical bills to equal the 'house note'.

I would have zero guilt filing a medical bankruptcy, especially for the balance after my insurance had paid.

[HAL 9000 96]

What alternatives to a public option do you propose for the uninsured that want insurance to avoid catastrophic debt when they fall ill?

HAve you ever priced how reasonable this type of insurance is... or are you just repeating the same thing over and over?

I priced it yesterday and it was low $200s a month.

I'm not an insurance guru so you try it yourself and tell me what you get.

Nationalhealthaccess.com

And you obviously haven't done your homework into the costs billable to the patient after insurance limits are hit; that is- if the patient isn't suddenly dropped retroactively.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

What kind of country have we turned into where so many people think they deserve medical care and don't want to pay for it?

Frankly, if you can't pay for the craniotomy you shouldn't get it. It's called being responsible!

[ready4ONE 5,400]

There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US. Not one. But you seem to have fun attacking strawmen. Keep at it while the rest of the country focuses on real issues.

Where do you think Obama's health care plan would lead to, theres no reason for employers to provide insurance for there workers. If we go this route it will eventually become socialized.

The horror... the horror... It might lead to a rational system enjoyed by the overwhelming majority of developed nations... The horror... the horror... the horror...

[HAL 9000 96]

What if... For example... I don't want to pay into health-insurance. ( i actually do, and i have coverage - beside the point) Will the government allow me to choose not to have insurance, as many of the 45 milion don't?

I mean you're talking about completely throwing out the current system, because 45 million aren't covered, when there are nearly 400million americans. Why should all of us change because 45 million aren't insured?

Playing with numbers again I see. So... most of those uninsured don't want coverage?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

There isn't a single proposal out there to socialize medicine in the US. Not one. But you seem to have fun attacking strawmen. Keep at it while the rest of the country focuses on real issues.

Where do you think Obama's health care plan would lead to, theres no reason for employers to provide insurance for there workers. If we go this route it will eventually become socialized.

Have some kool-aid.

[Peikko 1,575]

Why do people believe that we can insure 40-50 million people overnight without serious repercussions?

These 40-50 million people didn't become uninsured overnight.

For example, the climate act proposes to reduce US greenhouse gas emissions by 20 percent by 2020,

40 percent by 2030, and by 80 percent by 2050. No-one suggested, "hey, let's do it tomorrow".

Why not take it slow - set coverage targets and gradually expand Medicare to the uninsured?

I would imagine because these people are getting treatments as things stands, just not paying for them - we the insured are and it's NOT CHEAP!!!

But we are already paying for them. Insuring everyone would not make things cheaper -

maybe 10-20 years down the road (and that's a big "maybe"), but certainly not today.

In fact, it would cost us a staggering ONE TRILLION dollars - more than the GDP of Australia!

If we're not going to see any cost savings for another 10-20 years and a huge cost upfront,

why not amortize the upfront costs over the next 10-20 years?

Future savings are important, but the best bit is that those who are currently uninsured will be, so they will have access to day to day health care, not just emergency/acute care. This will free up the emergency/acute care for those who actually have a non preventable emergency.

A healthier population will be more productive and less likely to spread disease into the general population.

[nowhereman 1]

I use Tri-Care, which is govt health insurance for service members & their families, and it's a good program.