South Carolina may legislate celebration of treason

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

In London? Not these days...

The Northern Ireland dispute is over territorial control - It has nothing to do with the Reformation under Henry VIII and what arose out of that.

I was reading something today, that Tony Blair wrote before he left office, and not all the terrorist plots he and MI-5 foiled were from Al Qeda. There were more than a few homegrown plots uncovered. And I agree that the Irish matter is more political/social/economic/territorial than whether or not old Hank could divorce his wife, but it seems that all the trouble in the British Isles does fall out along religious ties. Orange vs Green in the Emerald Isle, for example. Some animosities die hard.

--Bullwinkle

Edited February 4, 2009 by Rocky_nBullwinkle

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In London? Not these days...

The Northern Ireland dispute is over territorial control - It has nothing to do with the Reformation under Henry VIII and what arose out of that.

I was reading something today, that Tony Blair wrote before he left office, and not all the terrorist plots he and MI-5 foiled were from Al Qeda. There were more than a few homegrown plots uncovered. And I agree that the Irish matter is more political/social/economic/territorial than whether or not old Hank could divorce his wife, but it seems that all the trouble in the British Isles does fall out along religious ties. Orange vs Green in Emerald Isle, for example. Some animosities die hard.

--Bullwinkle

There were homegrown plots in the UK muslim community, and I don't doubt that there were a few from Ireland - most likely the work of extremist splinter factions.

But the religious stuff in NI is really incidental to that issue overall - just a means of cementing the existing political divisions between people, I don't think that the dispute was really ever couched in religious language or rhetoric. It was fundamentally political and only superficially religious.

[Peikko 1,575]

What some Americans seem to fail to understand, is that for the most part, unless you lived in, or had some contact with NI there was a total lack of animosity or friction between catholics and the rest of society during the times of the troubles. In fact, most people in the UK would be hard pressed to know who was and wasn't a catholic as there was no segregation and no obvious way to tell. English people may have been afraid of, and disliked the IRA and associates (on those few occaisions when violence spilled over to England), but that didn't translate into hatred or suspicion of any particular group on the mainland. In fact, I'll go out on a limb here and say that most people in England had absolutely no idea what the violence was about as they didn't relate to it in any way.

[EstebanTrabajos 7]

seriously, my mother side of the family fought for the south.....and always, they call lincoln the great tyrant.....my dad side got here prior to WWI but coming from kentucky( after immigrating from lithuania) ..they are call the civil war..the war bewteen the states..

You are the product of aliens! OUU EMMM GI

Those southerners, they loved their slaves like people these days love their pets and iPods. How would you feel if China put together an army, invaded us and confiscated our furniture?

Touch my macbook they will get a can of whoopA$$

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What some Americans seem to fail to understand, is that for the most part, unless you lived in, or had some contact with NI there was a total lack of animosity or friction between catholics and the rest of society during the times of the troubles. In fact, most people in the UK would be hard pressed to know who was and wasn't a catholic as there was no segregation and no obvious way to tell. English people may have been afraid of, and disliked the IRA and associates (on those few occaisions when violence spilled over to England), but that didn't translate into hatred or suspicion of any particular group on the mainland. In fact, I'll go out on a limb here and say that most people in England had absolutely no idea what the violence was about as they didn't relate to it in any way.

It is interesting - as during the Reformation period practicing Catholics were singled out and subject to heavy fines for attending Catholic services, and the punishment for Catholic priests caught in the act was on the spot hanging, drawing and quartering.

It was an issue that had been going on for years - due to the English monarchy's increasing dislike of papal interference in the country's affairs. Pretty much all of the big wars in Englands history had to do with that - Spanish Armada, the execution of Mary Queen of Scots, The Gunpowder plot against King James and the Civil War, all had to do with religious (religion back then being inseparable from politics) factions vying with one another for control of the Government.

That's totally separate to what happened in NI; and by the time the dispute started Britain was already on its way to being a largely secular nation.

The US, in contrast, is also mostly secular - but within that it still has the bulk of its religious people in the Bible Belt states which mirror more or less exactly states involved in the Confederacy.

Edited February 4, 2009 by Paul Daniels

[almaty 19]

seriously, my mother side of the family fought for the south.....and always, they call lincoln the great tyrant.....my dad side got here prior to WWI but coming from kentucky( after immigrating from lithuania) ..they are call the civil war..the war bewteen the states..

You are the product of aliens! OUU EMMM GI

Those southerners, they loved their slaves like people these days love their pets and iPods. How would you feel if China put together an army, invaded us and confiscated our furniture?

Touch my macbook they will get a can of whoopA$$

i know...terrible..i am sure they were illegals....and i heard my aunt married and ahd children with a meskican

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

In London? Not these days...

The Northern Ireland dispute is over territorial control - It has nothing to do with the Reformation under Henry VIII and what arose out of that.

I was reading something today, that Tony Blair wrote before he left office, and not all the terrorist plots he and MI-5 foiled were from Al Qeda. There were more than a few homegrown plots uncovered. And I agree that the Irish matter is more political/social/economic/territorial than whether or not old Hank could divorce his wife, but it seems that all the trouble in the British Isles does fall out along religious ties. Orange vs Green in Emerald Isle, for example. Some animosities die hard.

--Bullwinkle

There were homegrown plots in the UK muslim community, and I don't doubt that there were a few from Ireland - most likely the work of extremist splinter factions.

But the religious stuff in NI is really incidental to that issue overall - just a means of cementing the existing political divisions between people, I don't think that the dispute was really ever couched in religious language or rhetoric. It was fundamentally political and only superficially religious.

I agree that religous affiliation is secondary, but it is something identifiable, and that becomes excuse enough to continue fighting. I would doubt any in the IRA have strong ties to the Roman See. The muslim extremists, for example, still want to fight the Crusades, though few even know the historical context.

--Bullwinkle

[Peikko 1,575]

In London? Not these days...

The Northern Ireland dispute is over territorial control - It has nothing to do with the Reformation under Henry VIII and what arose out of that.

I was reading something today, that Tony Blair wrote before he left office, and not all the terrorist plots he and MI-5 foiled were from Al Qeda. There were more than a few homegrown plots uncovered. And I agree that the Irish matter is more political/social/economic/territorial than whether or not old Hank could divorce his wife, but it seems that all the trouble in the British Isles does fall out along religious ties. Orange vs Green in Emerald Isle, for example. Some animosities die hard.

--Bullwinkle

There were homegrown plots in the UK muslim community, and I don't doubt that there were a few from Ireland - most likely the work of extremist splinter factions.

But the religious stuff in NI is really incidental to that issue overall - just a means of cementing the existing political divisions between people, I don't think that the dispute was really ever couched in religious language or rhetoric. It was fundamentally political and only superficially religious.

I agree that religous affiliation is secondary, but it is something identifiable, and that becomes excuse enough to continue fighting. I would doubt any in the IRA have strong ties to the Roman See. The muslim extremists, for example, still want to fight the Crusades, though few even know the historical context.

--Bullwinkle

Identifiable? Well, that was my point, in the UK, no, it's not. No one knows or cares what church or religious group anyone belongs to.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

No one knows or cares what church or religious group anyone belongs to.

No one?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

In London? Not these days...

The Northern Ireland dispute is over territorial control - It has nothing to do with the Reformation under Henry VIII and what arose out of that.

I was reading something today, that Tony Blair wrote before he left office, and not all the terrorist plots he and MI-5 foiled were from Al Qeda. There were more than a few homegrown plots uncovered. And I agree that the Irish matter is more political/social/economic/territorial than whether or not old Hank could divorce his wife, but it seems that all the trouble in the British Isles does fall out along religious ties. Orange vs Green in Emerald Isle, for example. Some animosities die hard.

--Bullwinkle

There were homegrown plots in the UK muslim community, and I don't doubt that there were a few from Ireland - most likely the work of extremist splinter factions.

But the religious stuff in NI is really incidental to that issue overall - just a means of cementing the existing political divisions between people, I don't think that the dispute was really ever couched in religious language or rhetoric. It was fundamentally political and only superficially religious.

I agree that religous affiliation is secondary, but it is something identifiable, and that becomes excuse enough to continue fighting. I would doubt any in the IRA have strong ties to the Roman See. The muslim extremists, for example, still want to fight the Crusades, though few even know the historical context.

--Bullwinkle

Well the problem with muslim extremism is that it is driven at the top by religious ideology, but those who actually do the grunt work of the fighting and suicide bombing - are weak minded people with a poor level of general education.

The NI conflict was never driven by religious ideology. The IRA was never driven by any of the religious issues pertaining to the catholic faith - the sectarianism was always secular.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

... those who actually do the grunt work of the fighting and suicide bombing - are weak minded people with a poor level of general education.

A fatwa on you!

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

No one knows or cares what church or religious group anyone belongs to.

No one?

Not in the UK. A person's religion is regarded to be a private affair.

Of course this has something to do with a lot of people being atheistic, so you're not likely to have a conversation with someone about religion outside of a church - it just isn't terribly relevant to many people.

[almaty 19]

... those who actually do the grunt work of the fighting and suicide bombing - are weak minded people with a poor level of general education.

A fatwa on you!

i see a jihad coming to him

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

No one knows or cares what church or religious group anyone belongs to.

No one?

Not in the UK. A person's religion is regarded to be a private affair.

Of course this has something to do with a lot of people being atheistic, so you're not likely to have a conversation with someone about religion outside of a church - it just isn't terribly relevant to many people.

No one?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

An approximate no-one (like a low percentage being rounded down)