Russian (Political) Idol

[KGSodie 0]

The link says it all.

[mox 298]

You know what's really impressive though?

At the top of the list was 13th century prince Alexander Nevsky, who defeated German invaders, followed by Pyotr Stolypin, a prime minister in the early 20th century known for agrarian reforms and a clampdown on leftist revolutionaries.

If there were to be a similar poll in the US, the list would most certainly be topped by an entertainer. Probably Elvis. The fact that enough Russians knew who the hell Alexander Nevsky was to put him at the top of the list is pretty impressive. It really speaks to the fact that Russians know their history a lot better than we know our own.

As for why Stalin ranked so high, the Communist guy nailed it:

"We have been living under capitalism for 20 years now and so what? We are now a rank-and-file country, no longer a superpower. Our voice is weak both in economics and politics, and key decisions are sometimes taken without us."

It's not just Communist Russians that feel this way. There's a real longing for days when Russia (USSR) was a superpower. Just like we look back on the "good 'ol days" with rose colored glasses, so do a lot of Russians who remember that they never had to worry about where their next meal was coming from or how they were going to find a job to keep a roof over their heads.

When Communism fell, the West lost a huge opportunity to help Russia come to terms with their new way of life. Instead, Europe turned their back, and the US just sat back and bragged about bringing down the evil empire. I have a bad feeling that those chickens are going to come home to roost one day in the not so distant future.

[slim 1,514]

I have a bad feeling that those chickens are going to come home to roost one day in the not so distant future.

You mean you don't think the Russians will bail us out and help us re-establish ourselves as a superpower?

[mox 298]

You mean you don't think the Russians will bail us out and help us re-establish ourselves as a superpower?

Hehe. Well I suppose that's one possibility.

[slim 1,514]

Actually, I'm surprised the Russians aren't asking for a bit of the TARP money. "If you let Russia go under, it would be too much for the world economy. You must bail us out."

[mox 298]

Russians are much too proud to ask for bailout money. They'll just argue that there's only enough money for anti-missile-defense-missile missiles in Poland, and it's too bad because if they had some extra cash on hand they might not have to put them there.

[1HappyGuy 45]

The Russians are suffering right along with everyone else. Since so much of their economy is tied to oil prices, they are starting to see tough times ahead. I see where they are getting 2 billion from Ukraine for gas in a couple of days. It was either pay up or we cut off the gas. The other european countries that rely on the gas from the pipeline through Ukraine saw this coming and have been stockpiling reserves. So, Ukraine had no choice but to pay up.

I just want to know, it all of this funny money was sold through out the world financial markets, who has all the profits made on the sales. Someone has to be sitting on a pot full of money.

[Blues Fairy 0]

Russians are much too proud to ask for bailout money.

Actually Russian oligarchs did get bailed out of their loans to western banks:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/31/business...31oligarch.html

The Russian oil sinecure takes care of itself just fine without your TARP money.

[mox 298]

The Russian oil sinecure takes care of itself just fine without your TARP money.

Are you sure they don't want some? Because it seems that Georgie's just handing out the free money right now to all takers.

Edited January 1, 2009 by mox

[shikarnov 7]

You know what's really impressive though?

At the top of the list was 13th century prince Alexander Nevsky, who defeated German invaders, followed by Pyotr Stolypin, a prime minister in the early 20th century known for agrarian reforms and a clampdown on leftist revolutionaries.

If there were to be a similar poll in the US, the list would most certainly be topped by an entertainer. Probably Elvis. The fact that enough Russians knew who the hell Alexander Nevsky was to put him at the top of the list is pretty impressive. It really speaks to the fact that Russians know their history a lot better than we know our own.

As for why Stalin ranked so high, the Communist guy nailed it:

"We have been living under capitalism for 20 years now and so what? We are now a rank-and-file country, no longer a superpower. Our voice is weak both in economics and politics, and key decisions are sometimes taken without us."

It's not just Communist Russians that feel this way. There's a real longing for days when Russia (USSR) was a superpower. Just like we look back on the "good 'ol days" with rose colored glasses, so do a lot of Russians who remember that they never had to worry about where their next meal was coming from or how they were going to find a job to keep a roof over their heads.

When Communism fell, the West lost a huge opportunity to help Russia come to terms with their new way of life. Instead, Europe turned their back, and the US just sat back and bragged about bringing down the evil empire. I have a bad feeling that those chickens are going to come home to roost one day in the not so distant future.

Methinks you overestimate the power of the US. The poor state of Russia is a Russian problem, perpetuated by a business climate filled with corruption, a government too invested in it, and a public too afraid to do anything about it.

My brother-in-law and I planned to start an online business directory together. By the time we were done figuring out how much we'd need to spend in corrupt payoffs -- including bodyguards (can you imagine?!) to physically protect us from our competitors who stood to lose a great deal when we undercut them -- the price per page went from 100руб/month to something like 2000руб.

Also, were are issues of pride at work in Russia -- then and now. More than anything else, the Russians dislike being told what to do.

Prime Minister Putin's willingness to tell regional governors and American Presidents where to shove it is part of the reason he's so popular today. But what has he really done for the average Russian? My wife's grandmother still moves goes to the bathroom in a bucket at night rather than going outside to her outhouse in frigid winter temperatures -- all because the government has been more interested in figuring out ways to "be strong again" than in running pipes to every part of Ivanovo, a city of several hundred thousand (this is NOT the middle of nowhere, I'm talking about).

There are very deep, fundamental, problems with Russia, and I think they missed far more opportunities after the fall of Communism than we did.

Edited January 2, 2009 by shikarnov

[mox 298]

Methinks you overestimate the power of the US. The poor state of Russia is a Russian problem, perpetuated by a business climate filled with corruption, a government too invested in it, and a public too afraid to do anything about it.

Nowadays, definitely. That horse has left the barn. What I meant is that Europe (especially Europe) and the US should have stepped up to the plate to help them in any way we could to help Russia transition from a Communist state to a Democratic state. As it was, Russia was pretty much left on their own to do it, which is why corruption blossomed.

[shikarnov 7]

Methinks you overestimate the power of the US. The poor state of Russia is a Russian problem, perpetuated by a business climate filled with corruption, a government too invested in it, and a public too afraid to do anything about it.

Nowadays, definitely. That horse has left the barn. What I meant is that Europe (especially Europe) and the US should have stepped up to the plate to help them in any way we could to help Russia transition from a Communist state to a Democratic state. As it was, Russia was pretty much left on their own to do it, which is why corruption blossomed.

What would you have liked to see the West offer that wasn't?

[mox 298]

What would you have liked to see the West offer that wasn't?

Pretty much the same type of help we offered Iraq and Afghanistan after "regime change." Everything from tax experts to experts on Constitutional law, economists, etc. Again I think Europe should have taken a much larger lead on this than the US, because European laws and practices are closer to the post-Soviet system than ours. There was a small window of opportunity where Western involvement would have made a huge difference. Instead it seems as if we isolated Russia even more.

[shikarnov 7]

What would you have liked to see the West offer that wasn't?

Pretty much the same type of help we offered Iraq and Afghanistan after "regime change." Everything from tax experts to experts on Constitutional law, economists, etc. Again I think Europe should have taken a much larger lead on this than the US, because European laws and practices are closer to the post-Soviet system than ours. There was a small window of opportunity where Western involvement would have made a huge difference. Instead it seems as if we isolated Russia even more.

I'll have to dig up some links later in the day, but I'm quite certain that the West was involved fairly intimately in the building up of Russia's post-Soviet economic system - and caught a lot of the blame during the crash in the late 90s for espousing ideas that didn't work [for Russia]. This collapse and the subsequent worsening of an already bad depression is what marked the beginning of Russia's movements away from decentralized free markets and ushered in the Putin era.

[mox 298]

Hmmm...if you can find anything, please post. My recollection is that the US pretty much bragged about "defeating" the USSR, and then quickly forgot about them, while Europe simply turned their backs.