Consensus emerging on universal healthcare - but single payer is off the table

[William33 110]

So McCain's plan was horrible and was rightly rejected - but rather than doing what is really necessary (a wholesale reform of the healthcare system that tears it apart to its foundations) we'll take the same leaky old house, paper over the cracks and flog it back to an unsuspecting mug (i.e. Us).

Job done. Apparently

Exactly. The Baucus 'plan' is a joke.

What do the liberals suggest, that will not cost the taxpayer further tax?

war costs lots of money, do you agree with that?

Indeed and without question. However, you can not cover all Americans with health insurance, without significant impact to the taxpayers. I am not willing to support that agenda.

Plenty of Americans feel that way, which is why the Baucus plan is what it is. It's essentially a way to pick the 'low hanging fruit' without the incredible expense of picking all the fruit. The hope is that if the number of uninsured can be reduced substantially, public pressure will dissipate.

I guess I don't understand the Baucus plan then. It sounds like an all call for insurance reform, at the taxpayers expense.... Am I wrong here?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

When we elect incompetent and corrupt politicians and the public refuse to do more than the bare minimum in terms of getting involved in the political process - my feeling is that the public can't really expect to avoid paying the consquences of that decision (even if that means higher taxes).

Edited December 2, 2008 by Paul Daniels

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

So McCain's plan was horrible and was rightly rejected - but rather than doing what is really necessary (a wholesale reform of the healthcare system that tears it apart to its foundations) we'll take the same leaky old house, paper over the cracks and flog it back to an unsuspecting mug (i.e. Us).

Job done. Apparently

Exactly. The Baucus 'plan' is a joke.

What do the liberals suggest, that will not cost the taxpayer further tax?

war costs lots of money, do you agree with that?

Indeed and without question. However, you can not cover all Americans with health insurance, without significant impact to the taxpayers. I am not willing to support that agenda.

Plenty of Americans feel that way, which is why the Baucus plan is what it is. It's essentially a way to pick the 'low hanging fruit' without the incredible expense of picking all the fruit. The hope is that if the number of uninsured can be reduced substantially, public pressure will dissipate.

I guess I don't understand the Baucus plan then. It sounds like an all call for insurance reform, at the taxpayers expense.... Am I wrong here?

Well my understanding of it (I haven't read the actual white paper, just media explanations of it....you know what that means) is that it wants to wrap the uninsured into the current system of insurance company sponsored healthcare with a small number being folded into Medicare/Medicaid (i don't remember the difference, one of those). Baucus is basically in bed with the insurance lobby, has been for years - so his plan will make them money, no matter what else it does. It will also reduce the number of uninsured, since the next election cycle is only 4 years away

When we elect incompetent and corrupt politicians and the public refuse to do more than the bare minimum in terms of getting involved in the political process - my feeling is that the public can't really expect to avoid paying the consquences of that decision (even if that means higher taxes).

The Obama 'legacy' in healthcare, if his support of the Baucus plan is any indication, will just be a gigantic snowjob.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

When we elect incompetent and corrupt politicians and the public refuse to do more than the bare minimum in terms of getting involved in the political process - my feeling is that the public can't really expect to avoid paying the consquences of that decision (even if that means higher taxes).

The Obama 'legacy' in healthcare, if his support of the Baucus plan is any indication, will just be a gigantic snowjob.

Yes it will.

[Scott & Lai 12]

So McCain's plan was horrible and was rightly rejected - but rather than doing what is really necessary (a wholesale reform of the healthcare system that tears it apart to its foundations) we'll take the same leaky old house, paper over the cracks and flog it back to an unsuspecting mug (i.e. Us).

Job done. Apparently

Exactly. The Baucus 'plan' is a joke.

What do the liberals suggest, that will not cost the taxpayer further tax?

Since when have liberals cared about not costing the taxpayer further taxes?

[William33 110]

When we elect incompetent and corrupt politicians and the public refuse to do more than the bare minimum in terms of getting involved in the political process - my feeling is that the public can't really expect to avoid paying the consquences of that decision (even if that means higher taxes).

The Obama 'legacy' in healthcare, if his support of the Baucus plan is any indication, will just be a gigantic snowjob.

Yes it will.

Bottom line, the current planning is too late and too short of the proper solution.

I believe there is no solution to the disparity in health care for the exposed US citizen without coverage today, unless the current taxpayers foot the bill.

This will not be resolved in our lifetime, and I have 40 years to go. Your mileage may vary.

[rocks 494]

So McCain's plan was horrible and was rightly rejected - but rather than doing what is really necessary (a wholesale reform of the healthcare system that tears it apart to its foundations) we'll take the same leaky old house, paper over the cracks and flog it back to an unsuspecting mug (i.e. Us).

Job done. Apparently

Exactly. The Baucus 'plan' is a joke.

What do the liberals suggest, that will not cost the taxpayer further tax?

war costs lots of money, do you agree with that?

Indeed and without question. However, you can not cover all Americans with health insurance, without significant impact to the taxpayers. I am not willing to support that agenda.

so we should waste money on war but not on trying to save americans from dying?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

When we elect incompetent and corrupt politicians and the public refuse to do more than the bare minimum in terms of getting involved in the political process - my feeling is that the public can't really expect to avoid paying the consquences of that decision (even if that means higher taxes).

The Obama 'legacy' in healthcare, if his support of the Baucus plan is any indication, will just be a gigantic snowjob.

Yes it will.

Bottom line, the current planning is too late and too short of the proper solution.

I believe there is no solution to the disparity in health care for the exposed US citizen without coverage today, unless the current taxpayers foot the bill.

This will not be resolved in our lifetime, and I have 40 years to go. Your mileage may vary.

Well the UK NHS arose out of a nation brought to the brink of bankruptcy by WW2. Its not inconceivable that something similar could happen here.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Well the UK NHS arose out of a nation brought to the brink of bankruptcy by WW2. Its not inconceivable that something similar could happen here.

Sounds delightful, I can't wait.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well the UK NHS arose out of a nation brought to the brink of bankruptcy by WW2. Its not inconceivable that something similar could happen here.

Sounds delightful, I can't wait.

Well it would require a paradigm shift in the political landscape (WW2 did that too in Britain).

[rocks 494]

Since when have liberals cared about not costing the taxpayer further taxes?

so the current wars don't cost the taxpayer anything? that was all a liberal idea, right?

[HAL 9000 96]

So McCain's plan was horrible and was rightly rejected - but rather than doing what is really necessary (a wholesale reform of the healthcare system that tears it apart to its foundations) we'll take the same leaky old house, paper over the cracks and flog it back to an unsuspecting mug (i.e. Us).

Job done. Apparently

Exactly. The Baucus 'plan' is a joke.

What do the liberals suggest, that will not cost the taxpayer further tax?

war costs lots of money, do you agree with that?

Indeed and without question. However, you can not cover all Americans with health insurance, without significant impact to the taxpayers. I am not willing to support that agenda.

If a tax plan is developed to address the national healthcare issue from the healthcare system structure we currently possess, then yes, its a bad idea.

The idea is to restructure the healthcare system IF you want to decrease taxation for health-related expenditures.

Or the government can do other things like put regulation where it belongs- in bringing down costs so that affordability and fair access to coverage can be done without jumping through loops of corporate greed.

[HAL 9000 96]

So McCain's plan was horrible and was rightly rejected - but rather than doing what is really necessary (a wholesale reform of the healthcare system that tears it apart to its foundations) we'll take the same leaky old house, paper over the cracks and flog it back to an unsuspecting mug (i.e. Us).

Job done. Apparently

Exactly. The Baucus 'plan' is a joke.

What do the liberals suggest, that will not cost the taxpayer further tax?

Since when have liberals cared about not costing the taxpayer further taxes?

That tends to happen when you restrict yourself to ideologically-defined representations of other schools of thought.

[rocks 494]

Or the government can do other things like put regulation where it belongs- in bringing down costs so that affordability and fair access to coverage can be done without jumping through loops of corporate greed.

human life is worth far more than corporate profits. greed is disgusting, look at what happened to that walmart employee that got killed.

[mawilson 2,133]

So McCain's plan was horrible and was rightly rejected - but rather than doing what is really necessary (a wholesale reform of the healthcare system that tears it apart to its foundations) we'll take the same leaky old house, paper over the cracks and flog it back to an unsuspecting mug (i.e. Us).

Job done. Apparently

Exactly. The Baucus 'plan' is a joke.

What do the liberals suggest, that will not cost the taxpayer further tax?

war costs lots of money, do you agree with that?

War costs aren't budgeted. Wars come upon us without warning, so the money is borrowed, not budgeted.