Big Three Auto

[Heracles 417]

I have been watching the auto bail out quite religiously. It was interesting to see and hear how these manufacturers are doing much better if not leading in countries without a UAW.

I would like to know what the UAW thinks and says about the reality that the majority of the Asian auto manufacturers who are doing well in America have plants in Southern non-unionized states.

Why should a company pay for people once they have left. That is just stupid.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Aficionado

[Heracles 417]

The UAW is also the reason I refuse to buy a UAW built vehicle. All three vehicles I purchased here are from Non-UAW plants.

[PlatyPius 5]

Re: The retirement benefits of Auto Makers.

There was a time in this country when most employers offered retirement plans to their employees. It was one of the benefits, and was given as an incentive to remain at the employer long-term. Not that many years ago, many employees DID remain at their employer for life. My mother worked for an insurance company for 25 years, and yes...she gets retirement benefits from them still.

In today's society however, retirement plans like that are very rare. I don't know if the UAW still demands these plans or not. The ones they are paying now, however, were likely entered into mostly back in the 50s, 60s and 70s. The employees stayed with GM, Ford, or whomever all those years because of that benefit (and the abnormally high wages UAW workers are paid at some plants). As such, they didn't worry about their retirement or put anything away for it. Why would they? They already HAD a retirement plan. Ergo, to kill those plans now would be to suddenly put thousands of people in economic turmoil. People would lose their houses, end up homeless, go without food, etc. Those people essentially gave their lives to GM et al in exchange for wages and retirement. Are you going to be the one to tell them that their lives are now forfeit because you don't agree with their retirement plans?

[Heracles 417]

Well I simply won't buy their cars, as many others are not. These manufacturers will end up bankrupt and consequently the UAW will then end up being a display at the Smithsonian.

GM has taken care of all of the previous retirement accounts and pension plans. They have passed on $35 or so billion to the UAW so they can manage their members healthcare and retirement. Maybe the unions will know what it means to have responsibility and do something for once apart from asking what can you give me. The boom days of the 50's and 60's for the US auto manufacturers are gone.

The big three autos need a simple strategy for the UAW. Either we get our costs equal to or lower than toyota and honda or we go bankrupt.

PS Even AUS a welfare state does not expect a company to take care of ones retirement. Heck we don't even have SS. Companies are simply required to add 9% on top of an employees paycheck and send it to a privately held retirement account of their choice. Consequently Australians now have the largest retirement accounts in the world. Almost double that of the country in position 2.

Edited November 20, 2008 by Aficionado

[AlHayatZween 2]

BY,

Just a quick related, but unrelated question for my info...

i see you refer to Australia as a welfare state frequently... my question is: What kind of healthcare system does Aus have? Who and how do they pay for it?

re the big 3: i think one of the greatest costs in their retirement packages is the health insurance costs along w/ the pensions... i'm just thinking out loud, was wondering a/b Aus.

Thanks,

hz

[Otto 83]

The unions are just a portion of 'the problem' - the main problem is they (US Auto Makers) for the most part, make cars people don't want to buy (here in the US and over seas).

[Lansbury 19]

The unions are just a portion of 'the problem' - the main problem is they (US Auto Makers) for the most part, make cars people don't want to buy (here in the US and over seas).

The sales figures for October when everything really started crashing might disprove that. For example Chevy sold more Silverado trucks than Toyota sold Camrays. The F-150 truck was if I remember correctly, what I read on CNN yesterday, still the top seller. Hybrid cars account for about 9% of the total sales.

It isn't as simple as they produce big vehicles. More likely they produce too many different and too many in total vehicles. For example how many brands does GM have competing with each other and with all the dealer networks to sell them.

The bailout might work but only if they drastically reduce their production and sales capacities. Don't think there is an answer to it other than to let the market shake out the weakest.

If you would bail them out. Do you use bailout money to US companies who make vehicles in Mexico and Canada to make it easy for them to compete against Japanese vehicles made in US plants.

[Blues Fairy 0]

The employees stayed with GM, Ford, or whomever all those years because of that benefit (and the abnormally high wages UAW workers are paid at some plants). As such, they didn't worry about their retirement or put anything away for it.

Those people essentially gave their lives to GM et al in exchange for wages and retirement. Are you going to be the one to tell them that their lives are now forfeit because you don't agree with their retirement plans?

So they got their abnormally high wages - nobody's proposing to take those back. I don't see how they "gave their lives" and I don't see how taking away their abormal retirement benefits would be unfair.

[Heracles 417]

BY,

Just a quick related, but unrelated question for my info...

i see you refer to Australia as a welfare state frequently... my question is: What kind of healthcare system does Aus have? Who and how do they pay for it?

re the big 3: i think one of the greatest costs in their retirement packages is the health insurance costs along w/ the pensions... i'm just thinking out loud, was wondering a/b Aus.

Thanks,

hz

Companies and businesses there do not pay for their employees health care. They only contribute a small amount to workcover. Which is a service that covers your medical expenses and rehabilitation if you are injured at work. The tax payers themselves pay for the health care in the form of a 2% to 3% Medicare levy on all income. The health care system is a NHS rather than a UHS, where the state government owns the majority of the hospitals. They use their huge buying power to negotiate lower prices for people. They also have private hospitals and private insurance which offers better and faster service.

The GP visits are free and paid for by the federal government. There is also a lot more medication available over the counter rather than requiring a prescription, to reduce cost. Medication also tends to be tested for longer periods there before being released into the market, so they generally allow the safer medication to be sold over the counter at pharmacies.

The big three auto should pay a fair wage and cover health care while the employees are working there. They should also contribute to a 401k or equivalent for retirement purposes. This should bring them in line with Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Once an employee leaves, that should be the end of their financial relationship between them and the company.