Obama's stuttering in debate...Why

[villaspurs 65]

What exactly do you mean by Palin paranoia? Her incredible lack of knowledge? Her laughable responses to legitimate questions about important political issues? Her offensive record as mayor of a small town and governor of a small state?

These are legitimate concerns, not paranoia

I mean that there is so little concern about Obama's lack of knowledge, his laughable responses to legitimate questions about important political issues, his thin resume, opportunist political career, and the inability to examine his past associations, comfort with fringe elements and activities without that discussion being diverted into criticism of Sarah Palin.

While there may be concerns about Obama's lack of experience (I disagree, but hey ho), I don't think his knowledge is at all in question. Likewise, Obama has never made a mockery of himself in an interview--you may not like what he has to say, but he is a capable speaker. I disagree with your concerns about his past associations and comfort with "fringe elements," but fine--you see things your way. You cannot pretend that Obama is ill-informed or unprepared, however.

Finally (and then I have to go to bed, as riveting as this discussion has been), look at your post above and reconsider who's being paranoid. I'm willing to talk about Obama's record, as are other people on here. But as soon as anyone questions Palin, we're paranoid Socialists. It's absurd. She is NOT A QUALIFIED CANDIDATE. Regardless of how you feel about Barack Obama, he was legitimately nominated through a democratic process. She was appointed to the ticket in an attempt to shake up the race, despite her total lack of preparedness.

Kathleen Parker, a National Review columnist and hard-core conservative, had an interesting piece on this:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiM...WMyYTUxZDkwNTE=

This is NOT coming from a Democrat or Socialist or liberal or whatever--this is from an avowed, respected conservative columnist. Palin is in over her head. Obama is not.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Hate to burst your bubble but many folks are assuming that the racists all live in the south. I travel to the north and the northeast quite often (Too much) and in the democratic strongholds there. These people are dyed in the wool Dems. They love Socialism and all the programs. Always have. Many of them are also the biggest racists I ever seen or heard. (Except when I was in Germany or Japan) Most tell me they will never vote for Obama and even will vote for McCain. Quite a few even told me that Mccain is a Lib anyway. (Reasoning away their throw away vote.)

You're right. Northern Dems have shown their racism time and time again. That's why they are pushing an unqualified Black man on their followers as the best they've got. This is no way to promote MLK's legacy, but what do they care?

[IAMX 3,055]

Really? Palin is not a model of how far woman have come? She was a mayor and Governor and now on the Republican ticketas a Vice President. This is pretty far I think. It was not long ago that a woman would never even be considered as a candidate for mayor. Now a woman on a big name party ticket is being considered such a threat to the other major party that she is being skewered to hopefully stem the tide being lost. Dammit. A woman is such a threat to a major ticket is not considered a big step forward.

No Palin is a huge plus right now. I would say that I am surprised she is able to withstand the vicious attacks but I know most woman are strong enough. Keep trying to take her down and if it backfires then I promise to not say I told you so.

I will try not to say it but probably will say I told you so.

So what step forward would it be to ban gays from the right of marriage as she's pushed for? What step forward to eliminate women's right to choose? These you completely skipped over, and your insinuation is that simply because she's a mayor or governor or a VP choice that this means that much for women's rights and progress?

I guess I'll state the obvious of since when does a conservative care about progress?

Edited September 28, 2008 by SRVT

[villaspurs 65]

Actually in my young life (48) I have been through a few election cycles. Polls have historically been wrong. Many times it has been said on why even vote because the people have spoken. Truman is a good example. Kerry is another. I remeber the last National elections when Kerry was the winner. Many polls said so. HE LOST.

Hate to burst your bubble but many folks are assuming that the racists all live in the south. I travel to the north and the northeast quite often (Too much) and in the democratic strongholds there. These people are dyed in the wool Dems. They love Socialism and all the programs. Always have. Many of them are also the biggest racists I ever seen or heard. (Except when I was in Germany or Japan) Most tell me they will never vote for Obama and even will vote for McCain. Quite a few even told me that Mccain is a Lib anyway. (Reasoning away their throw away vote.)

I just laugh because I see that the Dems are thinking again of the same old battle ground states. The battle ground is in the Dem strongholds that they are ignoring at their own peril.

"Dewey Defeats Truman" was a long time ago and polling has advanced leaps and bounds since then. That was a result of a write in magazine survey, which is scientifically unsound and unreliable--like the Drudge report "surveys." That has absolutely nothing in common with what we have today.

In 2000 and 2004, polls were all within the margin of error. No reliable national poll definitively said Kerry would be the winner. And if you're talking about Election Day exit polls, data were leaked that had not been weighed and, more importantly, were in the middle of the data collection process. No one involved with the exit polls said Kerry won--it was misconstrued data. Polling is based on statistical science and sound methods.

As far as bursting my bubble, I live in Ohio and am more than aware of racism up here. I've also lived in the Deep South (Louisiana, to be specific), central mountains (Colorado), and the East Coast (New York and New Jersey), and racism has been evident in all of them. I also know an awful lot of people who are willing to work incredibly hard to elect Barack Obama since they consider him to be the best choice for our country. I'd like to think that enough people in all of these places will not let prejudice determine their vote.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Jesus..

Obama's "resume" is only thin to people who think you need to be over 70 to run -- oh wait, look, there's one! Isn't that convenient.

So where's your vote for Joe Biden or Robert Byrd? Byrd's 80, and has a hell of a lot more experience than McCain. Or Joe Biden, who's 66, and has ten more years of experience than McCain?

I doubt you'd ever admit that you're only saying these things because it favors the candidate you have an flaming slant toward, but regardless it sure is as obvious as day.

I don't believe I mentioned age, just experience. For me, it has to be theright kind of experience, and Obama is sorely lacking in the right kind of experience.

I doubt you'd ever admit that you're only defending Obama because he has a lot of faults to be defended against, but regardless, it sure is as obvious as day.

[villaspurs 65]

Really? Palin is not a model of how far woman have come? She was a mayor and Governor and now on the Republican ticket as a Vice President. This is pretty far I think. It was not long ago that a woman would never even be considered as a candidate for mayor. Now a woman on a big name party ticket is being considered such a threat to the other major party that she is being skewered to hopefully stem the tide being lost. Dammit. A woman is such a threat to a major ticket is not considered a big step forward?

No Palin is a huge plus right now. I would say that I am surprised she is able to withstand the vicious attacks but I know most woman are strong enough. Keep trying to take her down and if it backfires then I promise to not say I told you so.

I will try not to say it but probably will say I told you so.

Actually, Geraldine Ferraro did it 24 years ago.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

So what step forward would it be to ban gays from the right of marriage as she's pushed for? What step forward to eliminate women's right to choose? These you completely skipped over, and your insinuation is that simply because she's a mayor or governor or a VP choice that this means that much for women's rights and progress?

I guess I'll state the obvious of since when does a conservative care about progress?

Why is gay marriage progressive? Why is the right to kill babies progressive? Upon whose authority are these defined as progress?

[luckytxn 2,265]

What exactly do you mean by Palin paranoia? Her incredible lack of knowledge? Her laughable responses to legitimate questions about important political issues? Her offensive record as mayor of a small town and governor of a small state?

These are legitimate concerns, not paranoia

I mean that there is so little concern about Obama's lack of knowledge, his laughable responses to legitimate questions about important political issues, his thin resume, opportunist political career, and the inability to examine his past associations, comfort with fringe elements and activities without that discussion being diverted into criticism of Sarah Palin.

While there may be concerns about Obama's lack of experience (I disagree, but hey ho), I don't think his knowledge is at all in question. Likewise, Obama has never made a mockery of himself in an interview--you may not like what he has to say, but he is a capable speaker. I disagree with your concerns about his past associations and comfort with "fringe elements," but fine--you see things your way. You cannot pretend that Obama is ill-informed or unprepared, however.

Finally (and then I have to go to bed, as riveting as this discussion has been), look at your post above and reconsider who's being paranoid. I'm willing to talk about Obama's record, as are other people on here. But as soon as anyone questions Palin, we're paranoid Socialists. It's absurd. She is NOT A QUALIFIED CANDIDATE. Regardless of how you feel about Barack Obama, he was legitimately nominated through a democratic process. She was appointed to the ticket in an attempt to shake up the race, despite her total lack of preparedness.

Kathleen Parker, a National Review columnist and hard-core conservative, had an interesting piece on this:

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MDZiM...WMyYTUxZDkwNTE=

This is NOT coming from a Democrat or Socialist or liberal or whatever--this is from an avowed, respected conservative columnist. Palin is in over her head. Obama is not.

He was nominated for sure. He was nominated by a little more than half of the Dems that actually went to the polls. Do not mistake that as a fro sure win by the whole country. He has a lot going against him now. It is a huge fight on his hands. If it seems that Palin has to be attacked so viciously and taken down to win then guess what? You are going to lose.

Obama needs to get back and his sheep also to running a campaign. McCain is the one that y'all should be worried about. He just made Obama look dumb. McCain asked for the debate to be postponed to take care of something important in Washington. Obama people screamed that the debate was ON. Also McCain was scared. Then McCain promptly agreed to the debate and showed up at what looked last minute and proceeded to take command of the debate. Obama was Punked.

I am not blaming Obama for it all but his handlers he pays a huge amount of money to keep him on top. They blew this from him. From what I seen McCain was the master campaigner and Obama was the also ran. McCains experience wins again.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Obama's "resume" is only thin to people who think you need to be over 70 to run -- oh wait, look, there's one! Isn't that convenient.

So where's your vote for Joe Biden or Robert Byrd? Byrd's 80, and has a hell of a lot more experience than McCain. Or Joe Biden, who's 66, and has ten more years of experience than McCain?

I doubt you'd ever admit that you're only saying these things because it favors the candidate you have an flaming slant toward, but regardless it sure is as obvious as day.

Obama's resume is thin, as it should be, he hasn't been around too long.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The reason why Sarah Palin is such a thorn in the side to liberals is that she is not THEIR idea of feminist and her life doesn't reflect THEIR idea of what a liberated women would be. They are not open to a variety of thought regarding the parameters of women's rights, including the right not to be a liberal feminist

[spookyturtle 9,466]

It seems we are now past that and onto Palin. The Socialists next best hope to win tactic by destroying her.

She is doing that quite well with that on her own. Her appeal is very limited.

you hope.

You have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to notice how substantive criticism of their presidential hopeful quickly morphs into Palin paranoia.

It is desperation. Palin is a true threat or why else go after her so vehemently?

Because she is a new player. Obama, McCain, and Biden have all been on the playing field for months.

Obama began preparing for this campaign at the Democratic Convention in 2004, four years ago. Palin began preparing about 4 weeks ago, a slight difference.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Ok. I last looked at his voting record and it seems he has a lot of NV the last couple of years.

Exactly what I criticize. However, I've also am constantly looking at it as well as when one argues about the guy and his voting record, it makes sense to actually be up to date on it.

Obama's legislation

I guess these aren't Presidential material.

3. S.CON.RES.44 : A concurrent resolution expressing the sense of Congress that a commemorative postage stamp should be issued honoring Rosa Louise McCauley Parks.

6. S.RES.133 : A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.

7. S.RES.268 : A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as "National Summer Learning Day".

8. S.RES.383 : A resolution honoring and recognizing the achievements of Carl Stokes, the first African-American mayor of a major American city, in the 40th year since his election as Mayor of Cleveland, Ohio.

12. S.114 : A bill to authorize resources for a grant program for local educational agencies to create innovation districts

42. S.1713 : A bill to provide for the issuance of a commemorative postage stamp in honor of Rosa Parks.

Maybe these are?

4. S.CON.RES.46 : A concurrent resolution supporting the goals and ideals of Sickle Cell Disease Awareness Month.

9. S.RES.600 : A resolution commemorating the 44th anniversary of the deaths of civil rights workers Andrew Goodman, James Chaney, and Michael Schwerner in Philadelphia, Mississippi, while working in the name of American democracy to register voters and secure civil rights during the summer of 1964, which has become known as "Freedom Summer".

10. S.RES.628 : A resolution expressing support for the designation of Disability Pride Day and recognizing that all people, including people living with disabilities, have the right, responsibility, and ability to be active, contributing members of society and fully engaged as citizens of the United States.

11. S.J.RES.23 : A joint resolution clarifying that the use of force against Iran is not authorized by the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, any resolution previously adopted, or any other provision of law.

15. S.117 : A bill to amend titles 10 and 38, United States Code, to improve benefits and services for members of the Armed Forces, veterans of the Global War on Terrorism, and other veterans, to require reports on the effects of the Global War on Terrorism, and for other purposes.

16. S.133 : A bill to promote the national security and stability of the economy of the United States by reducing the dependence of the United States on oil through the use of alternative fuels and new technology, and for other purposes.

18. S.453 : A bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections.

27. S.906 : A bill to prohibit the sale, distribution, transfer, and export of elemental mercury, and for other purposes.

30. S.1068 : A bill to promote healthy communities.

37. S.1324 : A bill to amend the Clean Air Act to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from transportation fuel sold in the United States.

Do you have any idea how many non-binding resolutions Congress passes that are similar to this? Should we post McCain's as well?

There are plenty of things to cite Obama for. Eventually luckytxn got one right, which is the lack of progress on the relevant bills and amendments created, but pointing to non-binding resolutions as non-President material just shows your lack of knowledge about Congress as a body.

I understand now. YOU'RE the expert. Got it.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Really? Palin is not a model of how far woman have come? She was a mayor and Governor and now on the Republican ticketas a Vice President. This is pretty far I think. It was not long ago that a woman would never even be considered as a candidate for mayor. Now a woman on a big name party ticket is being considered such a threat to the other major party that she is being skewered to hopefully stem the tide being lost. Dammit. A woman is such a threat to a major ticket is not considered a big step forward.

No Palin is a huge plus right now. I would say that I am surprised she is able to withstand the vicious attacks but I know most woman are strong enough. Keep trying to take her down and if it backfires then I promise to not say I told you so.

I will try not to say it but probably will say I told you so.

So what step forward would it be to ban gays from the right of marriage as she's pushed for? What step forward to eliminate women's right to choose? These you completely skipped over, and your insinuation is that simply because she's a mayor or governor or a VP choice that this means that much for women's rights and progress?

I guess I'll state the obvious of since when does a conservative care about progress?

Actually I could care less if Gays marry. I do not like abortion and wish people didn't do them but prefer to let woman decide to do no matter how sickening. Yes a woman being a mayor and Governor and on a major ticket is a huge thing even though Ferrara did it before. It was not that long agao that woman did not have rights to vote and when they did it was all but impossible for them to run for any office.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I thought Obama came across as thoughtful and well-informed, whereas--to me--McCain was a blustery, condescending jerk. I was actually surprised at how much I disliked him during the debate--his disrespect to Obama was appalling.

At least he called him Senator Obama, giving him the respect he deserves. I guess calling McCain John was not being condescending.

[PlatyPius 5]

So what step forward would it be to ban gays from the right of marriage as she's pushed for? What step forward to eliminate women's right to choose? These you completely skipped over, and your insinuation is that simply because she's a mayor or governor or a VP choice that this means that much for women's rights and progress?

I guess I'll state the obvious of since when does a conservative care about progress?

Why is gay marriage progressive? Why is the right to kill babies progressive? Upon whose authority are these defined as progress?

Mine.