Obama's stuttering in debate...Why

[villaspurs 65]

I don't think anyone is doubting that McCain has a lot of experience and Obama has very little.

But experience means jack squat when one's first important decision -- the picking of a running mate -- shows extraordinnary short-sightedness.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I saw it as gutsy and shocking. It definately shook up the Obama camp big time and they are still reeling from it. Never expected the Obama camp to have to go after McCains VP pick so much to recover lost ground like they have.

Strangely she is the only one of the 4 (Presidential and VP) that is closest to a real average citizen. To see them go after her so hard seems that they are attacking a actual citizen being able to be president. That is elitist thinking.

Except she is lacking even basic knowledge of current world events, which could be gained from say reading the newspaper?

Show us where she is lacking such basic knowledge. So far she has been receiving huge crowds everywhere she shows. She is very popular and unless she really blows at the debate then McCain has this sewn up.

Big whoop. Obama's been getting big crowds too. Next?

Oh, and if she can't handle an interview with Katie Couric, she's not going to be able to handle a debate.

Obama is running for President - Sarah Palin is not. If you want to make accurate comparisons you need to compare the crowds she has drawn to those that Biden has drawn.

Erm, not really. Not at all, actually.

But to reiterate a point made above, Palin actually hasn't done much to draw new voters to McCain. What she did was energize the base, many of whom were suspicious of McCain and not too excited about his candidacy. Without having strong support from the religious right, McCain doesn't stand a change. Palin offers him those fundamentalist credentials.

[IAMX 3,055]

Ok. I last looked at his voting record and it seems he has a lot of NV the last couple of years.

Exactly what I criticize. However, I've also am constantly looking at it as well as when one argues about the guy and his voting record, it makes sense to actually be up to date on it.

Obama's legislation

I guess these aren't Presidential material.

3. S.CON.RES.44 : A concurrent resolution expressing the sense of Congress that a commemorative postage stamp should be issued honoring Rosa Louise McCauley Parks.

6. S.RES.133 : A resolution celebrating the life of Bishop Gilbert Earl Patterson.

7. S.RES.268 : A resolution designating July 12, 2007, as "National Summer Learning Day".

8. S.RES.383 : A resolution honoring and recognizing the achievements of Carl Stokes, the first African-American mayor of a major American city, in the 40th year since his election as Mayor of Cleveland, Ohio.

12. S.114 : A bill to authorize resources for a grant program for local educational agencies to create innovation districts

42. S.1713 : A bill to provide for the issuance of a commemorative postage stamp in honor of Rosa Parks.

Maybe these are?

4. S.CON.RES.46 : A concurrent resolution supporting the goals and ideals of Sickle Cell Disease Awareness Month.

9. S.RES.600 : A resolution commemorating the 44th anniversary of the deaths of civil rights workers Andrew Goodman, James Chaney, and Michael Schwerner in Philadelphia, Mississippi, while working in the name of American democracy to register voters and secure civil rights during the summer of 1964, which has become known as "Freedom Summer".

10. S.RES.628 : A resolution expressing support for the designation of Disability Pride Day and recognizing that all people, including people living with disabilities, have the right, responsibility, and ability to be active, contributing members of society and fully engaged as citizens of the United States.

11. S.J.RES.23 : A joint resolution clarifying that the use of force against Iran is not authorized by the Authorization for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq, any resolution previously adopted, or any other provision of law.

15. S.117 : A bill to amend titles 10 and 38, United States Code, to improve benefits and services for members of the Armed Forces, veterans of the Global War on Terrorism, and other veterans, to require reports on the effects of the Global War on Terrorism, and for other purposes.

16. S.133 : A bill to promote the national security and stability of the economy of the United States by reducing the dependence of the United States on oil through the use of alternative fuels and new technology, and for other purposes.

18. S.453 : A bill to prohibit deceptive practices in Federal elections.

27. S.906 : A bill to prohibit the sale, distribution, transfer, and export of elemental mercury, and for other purposes.

30. S.1068 : A bill to promote healthy communities.

37. S.1324 : A bill to amend the Clean Air Act to reduce greenhouse gas emissions from transportation fuel sold in the United States.

Do you have any idea how many non-binding resolutions Congress passes that are similar to this? Should we post McCain's as well?

There are plenty of things to cite Obama for. Eventually luckytxn got one right, which is the lack of progress on the relevant bills and amendments created, but pointing to non-binding resolutions as non-President material just shows your lack of knowledge about Congress as a body.

Edited September 28, 2008 by SRVT

[luckytxn 2,265]

The beauty of being Sarah Palin right now is that the expectations for her performance at the debate are exceedingly low. If she doesn't literally fall over, she'll have a victory. That's what happened with McCain last night--people expected him to be off due to the confusion of whether or not he was going to attend, so when he seemed ready to go people were impressed.

Luckytxn, not too many people thought Obama was going to blow McCain away in this debate--before he started the shenanigans with calling it off, the expectation was that this would be McCain's to lose. The topic was foreign policy, an area in which McCain was clearly held in higher esteem than Obama before the debate. Among undecideds watching, evidence suggests that Obama actually did a good job of shoring up their perceptions that he could be a reliable and effective Commander-in-Chief.

Agree mostly Villaspurs. The expectation was from my viewpoint only (maybe others too). Obama is a very accomplished speaker and usually seems to in command of his facts. He seemed the opposite to me and that had to hurt him a lot.

I never expected Obama to wipe the floor with McCain of course but I did expect him to look like he could more than hold his own. He did not.

[britty 1]

I don't think anyone is doubting that McCain has a lot of experience and Obama has very little.

But experience means jack squat when one's first important decision -- the picking of a running mate -- shows extraordinnary short-sightedness.

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I saw it as gutsy and shocking. It definately shook up the Obama camp big time and they are still reeling from it. Never expected the Obama camp to have to go after McCains VP pick so much to recover lost ground like they have.

Strangely she is the only one of the 4 (Presidential and VP) that is closest to a real average citizen. To see them go after her so hard seems that they are attacking a actual citizen being able to be president. That is elitist thinking.

Except she is lacking even basic knowledge of current world events, which could be gained from say reading the newspaper?

Show us where she is lacking such basic knowledge. So far she has been receiving huge crowds everywhere she shows. She is very popular and unless she really blows at the debate then McCain has this sewn up.

Big whoop. Obama's been getting big crowds too. Next?

Oh, and if she can't handle an interview with Katie Couric, she's not going to be able to handle a debate.

Obama is running for President - Sarah Palin is not. If you want to make accurate comparisons you need to compare the crowds she has drawn to those that Biden has drawn.

Erm, not really. Not at all, actually.

But to reiterate a point made above, Palin actually hasn't done much to draw new voters to McCain. What she did was energize the base, many of whom were suspicious of McCain and not too excited about his candidacy. Without having strong support from the religious right, McCain doesn't stand a change. Palin offers him those fundamentalist credentials.

The last time I checked, and I believe I am correct, the Presidential race was between McCain and Obama. If you believe something else then that is merely personal choice and not in fact, erm fact.

[villaspurs 65]

The beauty of being Sarah Palin right now is that the expectations for her performance at the debate are exceedingly low. If she doesn't literally fall over, she'll have a victory. That's what happened with McCain last night--people expected him to be off due to the confusion of whether or not he was going to attend, so when he seemed ready to go people were impressed.

Luckytxn, not too many people thought Obama was going to blow McCain away in this debate--before he started the shenanigans with calling it off, the expectation was that this would be McCain's to lose. The topic was foreign policy, an area in which McCain was clearly held in higher esteem than Obama before the debate. Among undecideds watching, evidence suggests that Obama actually did a good job of shoring up their perceptions that he could be a reliable and effective Commander-in-Chief.

Agree mostly Villaspurs. The expectation was from my viewpoint only (maybe others too). Obama is a very accomplished speaker and usually seems to in command of his facts. He seemed the opposite to me and that had to hurt him a lot.

I never expected Obama to wipe the floor with McCain of course but I did expect him to look like he could more than hold his own. He did not.

I respectfully disagree. I thought Obama came across as thoughtful and well-informed, whereas--to me--McCain was a blustery, condescending jerk. I was actually surprised at how much I disliked him during the debate--his disrespect to Obama was appalling.

[IAMX 3,055]

The beauty of being Sarah Palin right now is that the expectations for her performance at the debate are exceedingly low. If she doesn't literally fall over, she'll have a victory. That's what happened with McCain last night--people expected him to be off due to the confusion of whether or not he was going to attend, so when he seemed ready to go people were impressed.

Luckytxn, not too many people thought Obama was going to blow McCain away in this debate--before he started the shenanigans with calling it off, the expectation was that this would be McCain's to lose. The topic was foreign policy, an area in which McCain was clearly held in higher esteem than Obama before the debate. Among undecideds watching, evidence suggests that Obama actually did a good job of shoring up their perceptions that he could be a reliable and effective Commander-in-Chief.

Agree mostly Villaspurs. The expectation was from my viewpoint only (maybe others too). Obama is a very accomplished speaker and usually seems to in command of his facts. He seemed the opposite to me and that had to hurt him a lot.

I never expected Obama to wipe the floor with McCain of course but I did expect him to look like he could more than hold his own. He did not.

Did you even see the 2004 debates? There hasn't been anything impressive about any Presidential contender in recent years, especially in debates, because the fact is, they rarely even have them. This is the way they want it because the fewer debates they have, and the closer they are to elections, the more they can get away with their stupidity. It seems maybe your expectations were a little on the high side.

But also they have this marketing style politics because 1) it gets them elected [this is the people's fault], 2) because the media puts every word they say under the microscope.

[villaspurs 65]

The last time I checked, and I believe I am correct, the Presidential race was between McCain and Obama. If you believe something else then that is merely personal choice and not in fact, erm fact.

She's running as part of a ticket. The race is between McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden. All names will be on all ballots. That's, erm, fact.

[luckytxn 2,265]

Srvt. I do have many political sites in my favs and looking up voting records is among the things I do often. I do not need to continously look up the two candidates daily or weekly of course.

The point that started this and maybe I was not clear so it is my fault. The one who said that Obama has such a record to look at and said how that made him so presidential. I was trying to see if that one would come up with why his record was worthy of consideration.

Of course McCain has a lot bigger record as he has been in the Senate for ages it seems. Obama very little time.

It seems we are now past that and onto Palin. The Socialists next best hope to win tactic by destroying her.

[britty 1]

The last time I checked, and I believe I am correct, the Presidential race was between McCain and Obama. If you believe something else then that is merely personal choice and not in fact, erm fact.

She's running as part of a ticket. The race is between McCain/Palin and Obama/Biden. All names will be on all ballots. That's, erm, fact.

ok we could argue this point forever. There are two candidates for president, and two for vice president. Fact.

[Dan J 277]

It seems we are now past that and onto Palin. The Socialists next best hope to win tactic by destroying her.

She is doing that quite well with that on her own. Her appeal is very limited.

[luckytxn 2,265]

The beauty of being Sarah Palin right now is that the expectations for her performance at the debate are exceedingly low. If she doesn't literally fall over, she'll have a victory. That's what happened with McCain last night--people expected him to be off due to the confusion of whether or not he was going to attend, so when he seemed ready to go people were impressed.

Luckytxn, not too many people thought Obama was going to blow McCain away in this debate--before he started the shenanigans with calling it off, the expectation was that this would be McCain's to lose. The topic was foreign policy, an area in which McCain was clearly held in higher esteem than Obama before the debate. Among undecideds watching, evidence suggests that Obama actually did a good job of shoring up their perceptions that he could be a reliable and effective Commander-in-Chief.

Agree mostly Villaspurs. The expectation was from my viewpoint only (maybe others too). Obama is a very accomplished speaker and usually seems to in command of his facts. He seemed the opposite to me and that had to hurt him a lot.

I never expected Obama to wipe the floor with McCain of course but I did expect him to look like he could more than hold his own. He did not.

Did you even see the 2004 debates? There hasn't been anything impressive about any Presidential contender in recent years, especially in debates, because the fact is, they rarely even have them. This is the way they want it because the fewer debates they have, and the closer they are to elections, the more they can get away with their stupidity. It seems maybe your expectations were a little on the high side.

But also they have this marketing style politics because 1) it gets them elected [this is the people's fault], 2) because the media puts every word they say under the microscope.

I will confess I did not watch the debates at all. I listened on the radio. I had many miles to drive and a certain time to get there. That is my job. I did not get to see the facial expressions at all. What I did hear though made me cringe for Obama. Unless McCain was wearing a clowns nose and lipstick then he was the one that seemed knowledgable to me. Obama did too but he was rebutted very well by McCain and then I heard Obama seem very frustrated and on the defensive throughout.

[villaspurs 65]

The beauty of being Sarah Palin right now is that the expectations for her performance at the debate are exceedingly low. If she doesn't literally fall over, she'll have a victory. That's what happened with McCain last night--people expected him to be off due to the confusion of whether or not he was going to attend, so when he seemed ready to go people were impressed.

Luckytxn, not too many people thought Obama was going to blow McCain away in this debate--before he started the shenanigans with calling it off, the expectation was that this would be McCain's to lose. The topic was foreign policy, an area in which McCain was clearly held in higher esteem than Obama before the debate. Among undecideds watching, evidence suggests that Obama actually did a good job of shoring up their perceptions that he could be a reliable and effective Commander-in-Chief.

Agree mostly Villaspurs. The expectation was from my viewpoint only (maybe others too). Obama is a very accomplished speaker and usually seems to in command of his facts. He seemed the opposite to me and that had to hurt him a lot.

I never expected Obama to wipe the floor with McCain of course but I did expect him to look like he could more than hold his own. He did not.

Did you even see the 2004 debates? There hasn't been anything impressive about any Presidential contender in recent years, especially in debates, because the fact is, they rarely even have them. This is the way they want it because the fewer debates they have, and the closer they are to elections, the more they can get away with their stupidity. It seems maybe your expectations were a little on the high side.

But also they have this marketing style politics because 1) it gets them elected [this is the people's fault], 2) because the media puts every word they say under the microscope.

I will confess I did not watch the debates at all. I listened on the radio. I had many miles to drive and a certain time to get there. That is my job. I did not get to see the facial expressions at all. What I did hear though made me cringe for Obama. Unless McCain was wearing a clowns nose and lipstick then he was the one that seemed knowledgable to me. Obama did too but he was rebutted very well by McCain and then I heard Obama seem very frustrated and on the defensive throughout.

It's really very, very different when you watch it--but regardless, our partisan predispositions mean that we'll all read the same content differently.

[luckytxn 2,265]

It seems we are now past that and onto Palin. The Socialists next best hope to win tactic by destroying her.

She is doing that quite well with that on her own. Her appeal is very limited.

Spoken like a true Obama sheep. Palin has a lot of appeal and attracts a lot of people. Her pick was a huge spark for Mccain that was quite a bit behind in the polls and is now his to lose.

[luckytxn 2,265]

The beauty of being Sarah Palin right now is that the expectations for her performance at the debate are exceedingly low. If she doesn't literally fall over, she'll have a victory. That's what happened with McCain last night--people expected him to be off due to the confusion of whether or not he was going to attend, so when he seemed ready to go people were impressed.

Luckytxn, not too many people thought Obama was going to blow McCain away in this debate--before he started the shenanigans with calling it off, the expectation was that this would be McCain's to lose. The topic was foreign policy, an area in which McCain was clearly held in higher esteem than Obama before the debate. Among undecideds watching, evidence suggests that Obama actually did a good job of shoring up their perceptions that he could be a reliable and effective Commander-in-Chief.

Agree mostly Villaspurs. The expectation was from my viewpoint only (maybe others too). Obama is a very accomplished speaker and usually seems to in command of his facts. He seemed the opposite to me and that had to hurt him a lot.

I never expected Obama to wipe the floor with McCain of course but I did expect him to look like he could more than hold his own. He did not.

Did you even see the 2004 debates? There hasn't been anything impressive about any Presidential contender in recent years, especially in debates, because the fact is, they rarely even have them. This is the way they want it because the fewer debates they have, and the closer they are to elections, the more they can get away with their stupidity. It seems maybe your expectations were a little on the high side.

But also they have this marketing style politics because 1) it gets them elected [this is the people's fault], 2) because the media puts every word they say under the microscope.

I will confess I did not watch the debates at all. I listened on the radio. I had many miles to drive and a certain time to get there. That is my job. I did not get to see the facial expressions at all. What I did hear though made me cringe for Obama. Unless McCain was wearing a clowns nose and lipstick then he was the one that seemed knowledgable to me. Obama did too but he was rebutted very well by McCain and then I heard Obama seem very frustrated and on the defensive throughout.

It's really very, very different when you watch it--but regardless, our partisan predispositions mean that we'll all read the same content differently.

I also can add that is different when one can listen with no other distractions. As for partisan prdilections is a given except that I think either candidate are the wrong choice. McCain or Obama are more of the same regardless.

[villaspurs 65]

It seems we are now past that and onto Palin. The Socialists next best hope to win tactic by destroying her.

She is doing that quite well with that on her own. Her appeal is very limited.

Spoken like a true Obama sheep. Palin has a lot of appeal and attracts a lot of people. Her pick was a huge spark for Mccain that was quite a bit behind in the polls and is now his to lose.

Obama was up in most national polls before McCain pulled his "postponing campaign" stunt, and thus far there hasn't been much change from that. I haven't read anyone saying this is McCain's to lose--it's still too close to call. Several battleground states (Ohio, Florida, Virginia, etc.) are within 1% (thus well within the margin of error) and the Electoral College is up for grabs right now. These debates can make a difference, as will any sort of "October Surprise." This is still anyone's game. Ultimately, I think it will come down to who has the best field organization on Election Day, which is why McCain needs Palin. The religious right is incredibly well-organized, and if he can't tap into that and turn out those voters he's fubared.

I also can add that is different when one can listen with no other distractions. As for partisan prdilections is a given except that I think either candidate are the wrong choice. McCain or Obama are more of the same regardless.

Oh absolutely--that's what I meant. There are advantages and disadvantages either way, but you definitely get a different perception depending on how you experience the event.