Obama Camp Turns to Clinton to Counter Palin

[one...two...tree 2,762]

But people have already commented on Obama's good looks, and John Edwards was made fun of for being a 'pretty boy.' Maybe it is some kind 'ism' but I doubt you can pin solely on sexism because women have complimented on Palin's looks as well. I agree that the aesthetics of a candidate shouldn't be a part of what voters respond too, but it certainly has been for quite some time. Remember Kerry being labelled as looking 'too French?'

Yes. Maybe this is like white people not being allowed to use the n word and black people getting away with it.

And no, I don't expect you to really understand where I'm coming from.

Robin, since I'm not a woman, I agree that I cannot fully understand the sexism that women have been subjected to, but that doesn't disqualify me from expressing my opinion whether a male politician who comments on Palin's looks is doing so out of pure sexism or some other 'ism.' I'm saying that we as a society tend to attribute quality to aesthetics. Hillary was poked fun of because she wasn't pretty enough....John Edwards was poked fun of because he was too pretty. Kerry because he looked too French. I don't know what kind of appropriate label you can use for that, but I think such aesthetic judgments about politicians looks are all coming from the same angle, IMO. That isn't to say that sexism and racism haven't factored into this race in particular, but I don't think you can simply label any comments made, positive or negative, about Palin's looks a mere sexism.

Edited to add: Everything has context.

Edited September 5, 2008 by Jabberwocky

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

But people have already commented on Obama's good looks, and John Edwards was made fun of for being a 'pretty boy.' Maybe it is some kind 'ism' but I doubt you can pin solely on sexism because women have complimented on Palin's looks as well. I agree that the aesthetics of a candidate shouldn't be a part of what voters respond too, but it certainly has been for quite some time. Remember Kerry being labelled as looking 'too French?'

Yes. Maybe this is like white people not being allowed to use the n word and black people getting away with it.

And no, I don't expect you to really understand where I'm coming from.

Robin, since I'm not a woman, I agree that I cannot fully understand the sexism that women have been subjected to, but that doesn't disqualify me from expressing my opinion whether a male politician who comments on Palin's looks is doing so out of pure sexism or some other 'ism.' I'm saying that we as a society tend to attribute quality to aesthetics. Hillary was poked fun of because she wasn't pretty enough....John Edwards was poked fun of because he was too pretty. Kerry because he looked too French. I don't know what kind of appropriate label you can use for that, but I think such aesthetic judgments about politicians looks are all coming from the same angle, IMO. That isn't to say that sexism and racism haven't factored into this race in particular, but I don't think you can simply label any comments made, positive or negative, about Palin's looks a mere sexism.

Edited to add: Everything has context.

And if you go back to my original remarks, I never said that "simply making comments" is kind of thing alone that makes it sexist. Unwise, yes, given the bigger picture.

If you put the bigger picture together - I think a lot of women get a little uncomfortable. Not all of them - but many.

[no name 1]

But people have already commented on Obama's good looks, and John Edwards was made fun of for being a 'pretty boy.' Maybe it is some kind 'ism' but I doubt you can pin solely on sexism because women have complimented on Palin's looks as well. I agree that the aesthetics of a candidate shouldn't be a part of what voters respond too, but it certainly has been for quite some time. Remember Kerry being labelled as looking 'too French?'

Yes. Maybe this is like white people not being allowed to use the n word and black people getting away with it.

And no, I don't expect you to really understand where I'm coming from.

Robin, since I'm not a woman, I agree that I cannot fully understand the sexism that women have been subjected to, but that doesn't disqualify me from expressing my opinion whether a male politician who comments on Palin's looks is doing so out of pure sexism or some other 'ism.' I'm saying that we as a society tend to attribute quality to aesthetics. Hillary was poked fun of because she wasn't pretty enough....John Edwards was poked fun of because he was too pretty. Kerry because he looked too French. I don't know what kind of appropriate label you can use for that, but I think such aesthetic judgments about politicians looks are all coming from the same angle, IMO. That isn't to say that sexism and racism haven't factored into this race in particular, but I don't think you can simply label any comments made, positive or negative, about Palin's looks a mere sexism.

Edited to add: Everything has context.

Like this? How could women possibly get offended by that?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

But people have already commented on Obama's good looks, and John Edwards was made fun of for being a 'pretty boy.' Maybe it is some kind 'ism' but I doubt you can pin solely on sexism because women have complimented on Palin's looks as well. I agree that the aesthetics of a candidate shouldn't be a part of what voters respond too, but it certainly has been for quite some time. Remember Kerry being labelled as looking 'too French?'

Yes. Maybe this is like white people not being allowed to use the n word and black people getting away with it.

And no, I don't expect you to really understand where I'm coming from.

Robin, since I'm not a woman, I agree that I cannot fully understand the sexism that women have been subjected to, but that doesn't disqualify me from expressing my opinion whether a male politician who comments on Palin's looks is doing so out of pure sexism or some other 'ism.' I'm saying that we as a society tend to attribute quality to aesthetics. Hillary was poked fun of because she wasn't pretty enough....John Edwards was poked fun of because he was too pretty. Kerry because he looked too French. I don't know what kind of appropriate label you can use for that, but I think such aesthetic judgments about politicians looks are all coming from the same angle, IMO. That isn't to say that sexism and racism haven't factored into this race in particular, but I don't think you can simply label any comments made, positive or negative, about Palin's looks a mere sexism.

Edited to add: Everything has context.

And if you go back to my original remarks, I never said that "simply making comments" is kind of thing alone that makes it sexist. Unwise, yes, given the bigger picture.

If you put the bigger picture together - I think a lot of women get a little uncomfortable. Not all of them - but many.

And I would venture to say that just as many women are uncomfortable with the idea that perhaps Palin's attractiveness factored into McCain's decision to select her as his running mate. For any woman who has felt they were passed up for a promotion or job opportunity because they weren't attractive enough, that's got to make them feel a bit uncomfortable as well.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

But people have already commented on Obama's good looks, and John Edwards was made fun of for being a 'pretty boy.' Maybe it is some kind 'ism' but I doubt you can pin solely on sexism because women have complimented on Palin's looks as well. I agree that the aesthetics of a candidate shouldn't be a part of what voters respond too, but it certainly has been for quite some time. Remember Kerry being labelled as looking 'too French?'

Yes. Maybe this is like white people not being allowed to use the n word and black people getting away with it.

And no, I don't expect you to really understand where I'm coming from.

Robin, since I'm not a woman, I agree that I cannot fully understand the sexism that women have been subjected to, but that doesn't disqualify me from expressing my opinion whether a male politician who comments on Palin's looks is doing so out of pure sexism or some other 'ism.' I'm saying that we as a society tend to attribute quality to aesthetics. Hillary was poked fun of because she wasn't pretty enough....John Edwards was poked fun of because he was too pretty. Kerry because he looked too French. I don't know what kind of appropriate label you can use for that, but I think such aesthetic judgments about politicians looks are all coming from the same angle, IMO. That isn't to say that sexism and racism haven't factored into this race in particular, but I don't think you can simply label any comments made, positive or negative, about Palin's looks a mere sexism.

Edited to add: Everything has context.

And if you go back to my original remarks, I never said that "simply making comments" is kind of thing alone that makes it sexist. Unwise, yes, given the bigger picture.

If you put the bigger picture together - I think a lot of women get a little uncomfortable. Not all of them - but many.

And I would venture to say that just as many women are uncomfortable with the idea that perhaps Palin's attractiveness factored into McCain's decision to select her as his running mate. For any woman who has felt they were passed up for a promotion or job opportunity because they weren't attractive enough, that's got to make them feel a bit uncomfortable as well.

I don't really believe this is the case. Sure, she is attractive but that's not the reason she's on the ticket.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

There's quite a few Republicans who aren't happy with Palin being chosen - almost as if they're trying to solidify their extreme wing and lose ordinary conservatives.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

But people have already commented on Obama's good looks, and John Edwards was made fun of for being a 'pretty boy.' Maybe it is some kind 'ism' but I doubt you can pin solely on sexism because women have complimented on Palin's looks as well. I agree that the aesthetics of a candidate shouldn't be a part of what voters respond too, but it certainly has been for quite some time. Remember Kerry being labelled as looking 'too French?'

Yes. Maybe this is like white people not being allowed to use the n word and black people getting away with it.

And no, I don't expect you to really understand where I'm coming from.

Robin, since I'm not a woman, I agree that I cannot fully understand the sexism that women have been subjected to, but that doesn't disqualify me from expressing my opinion whether a male politician who comments on Palin's looks is doing so out of pure sexism or some other 'ism.' I'm saying that we as a society tend to attribute quality to aesthetics. Hillary was poked fun of because she wasn't pretty enough....John Edwards was poked fun of because he was too pretty. Kerry because he looked too French. I don't know what kind of appropriate label you can use for that, but I think such aesthetic judgments about politicians looks are all coming from the same angle, IMO. That isn't to say that sexism and racism haven't factored into this race in particular, but I don't think you can simply label any comments made, positive or negative, about Palin's looks a mere sexism.

Edited to add: Everything has context.

And if you go back to my original remarks, I never said that "simply making comments" is kind of thing alone that makes it sexist. Unwise, yes, given the bigger picture.

If you put the bigger picture together - I think a lot of women get a little uncomfortable. Not all of them - but many.

And I would venture to say that just as many women are uncomfortable with the idea that perhaps Palin's attractiveness factored into McCain's decision to select her as his running mate. For any woman who has felt they were passed up for a promotion or job opportunity because they weren't attractive enough, that's got to make them feel a bit uncomfortable as well.

I don't really believe this is the case. Sure, she is attractive but that's not the reason she's on the ticket.

...not the reason, but whether it factored in or not. That happens in the real world of business (more attractive people getting the job over less attractive people), and many women have been subjected to it. Enough so, IMO, to be equally as uncomfortable about any real or perceived sexism towards Palin because she is pretty by her political foes.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

...not the reason, but whether it factored in or not. That happens in the real world of business (more attractive people getting the job over less attractive people), and many women have been subjected to it. Enough so, IMO, to be equally as uncomfortable about any real or perceived sexism towards Palin because she is pretty by her political foes.

It true - I only got my job because I am such a hot babe

All kidding aside, a of people seemed pretty surprised when Palin knocked everyone's socks off the other night. Because a beauty queen wasn't supposed to be smart. Saying she got picked because of her looks is part of that big picture I'm talking about.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

...not the reason, but whether it factored in or not. That happens in the real world of business (more attractive people getting the job over less attractive people), and many women have been subjected to it. Enough so, IMO, to be equally as uncomfortable about any real or perceived sexism towards Palin because she is pretty by her political foes.

It true - I only got my job because I am such a hot babe

All kidding aside, a of people seemed pretty surprised when Palin knocked everyone's socks off the other night. Because a beauty queen wasn't supposed to be smart. Saying she got picked because of her looks is part of that big picture I'm talking about.

I understand and we're both talking about two sides of the same coin. People (both men and women) in the business world will make the same comment about a woman who is given a job or promotion with such a short resume - questioning to themselves or out loud whether her looks factored into the decision. And while that may make some women uncomfortable (sexism from her critics), the other side of the coin are women who actually see this VP choice as sexism from McCain. I think I've read or heard enough comments from both her critics and those who support the choice that could equally be construed as rooted in sexism.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I understand and we're both talking about two sides of the same coin. People (both men and women) in the business world will make the same comment about a woman who is given a job or promotion with such a short resume - questioning to themselves or out loud whether her looks factored into the decision. And while that may make some women uncomfortable (sexism from her critics), the other side of the coin are women who actually see this VP choice as sexism from McCain. I think I've read or heard enough comments from both her critics and those who support the choice that could equally be construed as rooted in sexism.

I think they are wrong - her gender is just the upside.

[Mrs.Walker 0]

Appears he *DOES* need HRC after all.... 18,000,000 vs. a whopping 9,000 from Biden?!

Published: September 4, 2008

ST. PAUL — Senator Barack Obama will increasingly lean on prominent Democratic women to undercut Gov. Sarah Palin and Senator John McCain, dispatching Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton to Florida on Monday and bolstering his plan to deploy female surrogates to battleground states, Obama advisers said Thursday.

Mrs. Clinton’s campaign event in Florida, her first for Mr. Obama since the Democratic convention, will serve as a counterpoint to the searing attacks and fresh burst of energy that Ms. Palin injected into the race with her convention speech on Wednesday, Obama aides said.

With the McCain-Palin team courting undecided female voters, including some who backed Mrs. Clinton in the Democratic primaries, Obama aides said they were counting on not only Mrs. Clinton but also Democratic female governors to rebut Ms. Palin — and, by extension, Mr. McCain. Those governors include Janet Napolitano of Arizona and Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas.

Still, within the Obama campaign and among Democratic officials nationwide, talks are well under way about how the party should treat Ms. Palin in the campaign — and what Mr. Obama and his running mate, Senator Joseph R. Biden Jr., need to do to regain the offensive after the Republican convention.

Some Democrats were urging Mr. Obama’s campaign not to underestimate the potential power of Ms. Palin’s speech, even among voters not aligned with either party: On liberal talk-radio shows and on left-leaning blogs, some Democrats said the Obama campaign should fight back hard to avoid being caricatured as Senator John Kerry was four years ago when he ran against President Bush. Some party strategists warned that Mrs. Palin’s personal narrative as a “hockey mom” with a special-needs child, would appeal to some undecided women voters.

“What McCain has done with Governor Palin’s nomination is aim right at a demographic that Obama needs to address quickly: noncollege-educated women,” said Mike McCurry, a former spokesman in the Clinton White House. “They need to maximize Biden’s ability to reach out to them, but at the end of the day, it is Obama who has to get that very, very critical group.”

Advisers to Mr. Obama predicted that the buzz over Ms. Palin would fade and that the race would quickly turn back into a contest between Senators McCain and Obama, despite the McCain campaign’s efforts to compare Mr. Obama’s experience unfavorably to Ms. Palin’s. At the same time, even as Democratic researchers pore over Ms. Palin’s record in Alaska, a rapid response team is being created in Chicago to dispatch female surrogates around the country.

David Axelrod, the Obama campaign’s chief political strategist, said Mr. Obama would not raise questions about Ms. Palin’s experience. Mr. Axelrod said the campaign would work instead to impress upon voters the seriousness of the race and continue to try to link the McCain-Palin team to President Bush.

While Mr. Obama did not aggressively challenge Ms. Palin, his advisers opened a new line of criticism to brand her as part of the Republican establishment.

“For someone who makes the point that she’s not from Washington, she looked very much like she’d fit in very well there when you see how she brings the attacks,” Mr. Axelrod said. “They all felt very familiar to Americans who are used to this kind of thing from Washington.”

Advisers to Mrs. Clinton said that she stood ready to help the Obama-Biden ticket, but they urged the campaign not to overestimate the impact Mrs. Clinton could have, noting that she had other commitments this fall, like campaigning and raising money for Senate candidates. Obama aides said the Clinton trip had been in the works before Ms. Palin was named the running mate.

Still, Mo Elleithee, a Clinton spokesman, said he believed she could make a difference with some voters who feel lost in the current economy and who want to see a federal role enacting universal health insurance.

“Anyone who was inclined to support Hillary Clinton typically did so because of her focus on middle-class, bread-and-butter issues,” Mr. Elleithee said. “Her message for Barack Obama on those issues could certainly help the Democratic ticket at the ballot box.”

The Obama camp also plans to keep Mr. Biden campaigning steadily in swing states. Obama advisers said that one advantage they had was that Mr. Biden, as a six-term senator and former presidential candidate, is well-prepared for his single debate with Ms. Palin, in October.

With both conventions seen largely as successes for their tickets, the importance of the three presidential debates — the first of which is Sept. 26 — and the one vice-presidential debate become even more crucial for either side to gain a political advantage, Democratic strategists and elected officials said.

Mr. Obama, speaking to reporters on Thursday at a campaign stop in York, Pa., brushed aside any worry that he might have about Ms. Palin’s criticism of his biography and political record in her convention speech.

“I’ve been called worse on the basketball court, so it’s not that big of a deal,” he said.

Yet Ms. Palin seemed to be on Mr. Obama’s mind. At a rally in Lancaster, Pa., Mr. Obama asked an audience of several thousand people if they had “caught any of the performances” at the Republican convention.

Mr. Obama did not mention Ms. Palin by name, but added, “They may have found some new faces to present their message, but it’s the same old message.”

link

Okay Mrs. Clinton is not the attack dog for the party she is going after McCain, oops wait is it strange when your VP seems to be the one running for president and you have just drowned in the back ground??

[no name 1]

...not the reason, but whether it factored in or not. That happens in the real world of business (more attractive people getting the job over less attractive people), and many women have been subjected to it. Enough so, IMO, to be equally as uncomfortable about any real or perceived sexism towards Palin because she is pretty by her political foes.

It true - I only got my job because I am such a hot babe

All kidding aside, a of people seemed pretty surprised when Palin knocked everyone's socks off the other night. Because a beauty queen wasn't supposed to be smart. Saying she got picked because of her looks is part of that big picture I'm talking about.

I understand and we're both talking about two sides of the same coin. People (both men and women) in the business world will make the same comment about a woman who is given a job or promotion with such a short resume - questioning to themselves or out loud whether her looks factored into the decision. And while that may make some women uncomfortable (sexism from her critics), the other side of the coin are women who actually see this VP choice as sexism from McCain. I think I've read or heard enough comments from both her critics and those who support the choice that could equally be construed as rooted in sexism.

You said earlier you cannot (fully)understand it as you are not a woman. So why all the assumptions now?

[Fandango 1,440]

Hill's gonna campaign her azz off for O because doing otherwise might 'jeopardize' the presidency for O, therefore placing Palin in the WH, which imo all but guarantees her being the first female Prez.

And O prolly didn't pick Hill for veep cos he doesn't want to have to sleep with one eye open for the next four years, should he win. lol

[Sofiyya 1,687]

I couldn't care less why NObama didn't pick Hillary. I am greatly amused by the fear that Sarah Palin has struck in the heart of many (Kool-Aid drinking) Democrats. If she wasn't all that, they would be cheering her pick as Reps were when Joe was picked because they weren't threatened by him.

If NObama was in reality what his press makes him out to be, he would be doing better next to the old guard pol McCain. He isn't and that speaks volumes. It's just gonna get worse for the Dems cause the lib media has no self-control when it comes to how their white-guilt adulation of NObama results in undeniable bias against conservatives. They also have little grasp of the world outside of DC, LA and Mahattan, but they will be chastened. Guns and religion are making a comeback!

Oh, and NObama's not that good-looking.

Edited September 6, 2008 by Virtual wife

[one...two...tree 2,762]

...not the reason, but whether it factored in or not. That happens in the real world of business (more attractive people getting the job over less attractive people), and many women have been subjected to it. Enough so, IMO, to be equally as uncomfortable about any real or perceived sexism towards Palin because she is pretty by her political foes.

It true - I only got my job because I am such a hot babe

All kidding aside, a of people seemed pretty surprised when Palin knocked everyone's socks off the other night. Because a beauty queen wasn't supposed to be smart. Saying she got picked because of her looks is part of that big picture I'm talking about.

I understand and we're both talking about two sides of the same coin. People (both men and women) in the business world will make the same comment about a woman who is given a job or promotion with such a short resume - questioning to themselves or out loud whether her looks factored into the decision. And while that may make some women uncomfortable (sexism from her critics), the other side of the coin are women who actually see this VP choice as sexism from McCain. I think I've read or heard enough comments from both her critics and those who support the choice that could equally be construed as rooted in sexism.

You said earlier you cannot (fully)understand it as you are not a woman. So why all the assumptions now?

Not being a women doesn't exclude me or any other man from having an opinion one way or another regarding sexism, just as it doesn't stop people to form opinions as to Obama's rise to the candidacy and whether his skin color factors into it, both positively and negatively.