"We refuse to serve in the Israeli occupation"

[palilover 1]

I like Germany's policy of having people perform community service instead of joining the military. That means everyone has to do something and community service will still help people do things for the common good.

Israel on the other hand......you were born in Israel (and yes, with a few exceptions as WOM pointed out), join the mmilitary and die for Israel or else. That's bs.

I never thougth about the Israeli law though until I watched a documentary. I saw that the orthodox Jews (you know the religious ones that study a lot and read Torah all day) do NOT have to join the military! So what that proves to me is that you have religious fanatics who go and let other people die for them and they just sit thre reading religion all day.

I do not like the thought of other people having to die for another person (in the same area...do you see Bush's kids going to Iraq? No. ). But I also do not like Israel's military policy because what is to stop someone from "faking" religion? You may have a person who has been clubbing in Tel Aviv all his life and all of a sudden when military service comes about, he wants to avoid it by joining one of those Jewish schools to erad religion all day? But then again, you have fakes in all religions so why should that last point concern me?

[Nasturtium 500]

I like Germany's policy of having people perform community service instead of joining the military. That means everyone has to do something and community service will still help people do things for the common good.

Israel on the other hand......you were born in Israel (and yes, with a few exceptions as WOM pointed out), join the mmilitary and die for Israel or else. That's bs.

I never thougth about the Israeli law though until I watched a documentary. I saw that the orthodox Jews (you know the religious ones that study a lot and read Torah all day) do NOT have to join the military! So what that proves to me is that you have religious fanatics who go and let other people die for them and they just sit thre reading religion all day.

I do not like the thought of other people having to die for another person (in the same area...do you see Bush's kids going to Iraq? No. ). But I also do not like Israel's military policy because what is to stop someone from "faking" religion? You may have a person who has been clubbing in Tel Aviv all his life and all of a sudden when military service comes about, he wants to avoid it by joining one of those Jewish schools to erad religion all day? But then again, you have fakes in all religions so why should that last point concern me?

Isra'el's population is about 6.8 million as per the 1995 census. The Yeshiva students who are exempted are about 30,000 at this point, which is estimated to include an exemption of about 10-15% of the draftable population (as per wikipedia and other online searchings). By the way, that is not what makes you an Orthodox Jew nor does just being an Orthodox Jew mean an exemption. One must study at least 45 hours/week and not hold a job. If either are broken before the end of Yeshiva, the student will be made to make up a shortened term. Secular Jews may protest the exemption, but not everyone does-- thus the disagreement. Some people feel the study of Torah is integral in preserving the Jewish heritiage. Out of curiosity, do you have the same caustic words to say about Islamic scholars?

Also, there are many countries with military conscription and not all of them have options.

[palilover 1]

I like Germany's policy of having people perform community service instead of joining the military. That means everyone has to do something and community service will still help people do things for the common good.

Israel on the other hand......you were born in Israel (and yes, with a few exceptions as WOM pointed out), join the mmilitary and die for Israel or else. That's bs.

I never thougth about the Israeli law though until I watched a documentary. I saw that the orthodox Jews (you know the religious ones that study a lot and read Torah all day) do NOT have to join the military! So what that proves to me is that you have religious fanatics who go and let other people die for them and they just sit thre reading religion all day.

I do not like the thought of other people having to die for another person (in the same area...do you see Bush's kids going to Iraq? No. ). But I also do not like Israel's military policy because what is to stop someone from "faking" religion? You may have a person who has been clubbing in Tel Aviv all his life and all of a sudden when military service comes about, he wants to avoid it by joining one of those Jewish schools to erad religion all day? But then again, you have fakes in all religions so why should that last point concern me?

Isra'el's population is about 6.8 million as per the 1995 census. The Yeshiva students who are exempted are about 30,000 at this point, which is estimated to include an exemption of about 10-15% of the draftable population (as per wikipedia and other online searchings). By the way, that is not what makes you an Orthodox Jew nor does just being an Orthodox Jew mean an exemption. One must study at least 45 hours/week and not hold a job. If either are broken before the end of Yeshiva, the student will be made to make up a shortened term. Secular Jews may protest the exemption, but not everyone does-- thus the disagreement. Some people feel the study of Torah is integral in preserving the Jewish heritiage. Out of curiosity, do you have the same caustic words to say about Islamic scholars?

Also, there are many countries with military conscription and not all of them have options.

Interesting info, thank you for that.

As for Islamic scholars.....that all depends on what you mean.. If a country is at war or needs people to fight though, I don't think anyone should opt out and study religion alone and not defend their country. Yes, religion is important to keeping heritage, no matter which religion. But that does not mean you sit around and study while other people fight. Even in the Koran, since you mention Islam, it states that all able bodied people must go forth and fight (no I am NOT talking about extremism here so dont anyone suggest it...turn off foxnews). But at the same time, that does not mean you should forget your religion either. Religion, if one is practicing, is a part of their daily life whether they are fighting, going to work, raising kids, etc.

But back to Islamic scholars specifically, there are scholars who urge people to go and fight and apparently some of them (not the mainstream ones) urge people to follow the likes of Al Qaida. BUT are THOSE "scholars" fighting or are they sitting on their butts while other people are fighting because they are too afraid to die themselves because they know what they are preaching is against Islam? Thankfully those scholars are a minority tough mind you, and most scholars I would like to think are practicing as well as preaching.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Isra'el's population is about 6.8 million as per the 1995 census. The Yeshiva students who are exempted are about 30,000 at this point, which is estimated to include an exemption of about 10-15% of the draftable population (as per wikipedia and other online searchings). By the way, that is not what makes you an Orthodox Jew nor does just being an Orthodox Jew mean an exemption. One must study at least 45 hours/week and not hold a job. If either are broken before the end of Yeshiva, the student will be made to make up a shortened term. Secular Jews may protest the exemption, but not everyone does-- thus the disagreement. Some people feel the study of Torah is integral in preserving the Jewish heritiage.

Figures have increased since 1995, of course. The current population of Israel is 7,282,000 (May 2008.) Nearly 1.4 million of these are Muslim or Christian Arabs, all of whom are exempt from mandatory military service. The number of yeshiva students has nearly doubled since the mid '90s -- the IDF Department of Planning and Manpower Administration says there are currently 55,300 Israelis who have declared Torah study as their occupation (July 2008.)

So -- we start with nearly 20% of the population already exempt because of their ethnicity. Now add in the yeshiva students and other Jewish religious groups mentioned, plus all Druze women, plus the more than 30% of Jewish women who are exempt because of their religious views, because they are married, pregnant, have medical exemptions or because they are conscientious objectors. When you total it all up, this means that nearly *half* of all draft-age Israelis are not required to serve.

The issue of the yeshiva students’ exemption in particular has become quite controversial in Israel, and is the target of a lot of resentment. In 2007, nearly 11% of the draft-age population qualified for exemptions as yeshiva students. But as the article below explains, this number is growing exponentially. Some Israelis question the wisdom of a policy that they see as encouraging a huge drain on the potential number of draftees. Even more worrisome, the policy effectively removes these yeshiva students from the workforce for decades -- the exemption can be renewed until age 41 when the person becomes permanently exempt. (Another way that yeshiva students can get a permanent exemption is to serve 1 year in the civil service.) This permanent student-hood for such a large group becomes an enormous burden on the economy, and the problem is getting worse:

Israel’s Hidden Crisis

Fri. Aug 03, 2007

Israel faces no end of threats and challenges, any one of which is capable of fueling endless discussion — not to mention anxiety — among Jews and gentiles around the globe. There is one challenge, however, that’s rarely discussed above a whisper outside Israel, because of its extreme sensitivity. You might call it the hidden Jewish demographic crisis: the population explosion among the Jewish state’s Haredi or ultra-Orthodox Jews, and the implications of that growth for Israel’s long-term survival.

Why should a growing level of piety be considered a national “challenge”? For one simple reason: Haredi men are almost entirely exempted from military service, in deference to their religious convictions. Under a rule enacted at the time of Israel’s founding, draft-age men are excused from serving if they are engaged in full-time Torah study at a recognized academy through age 40. The rule has the dual effect of removing yeshiva students from both the military and the work force. The more Haredim, experience shows, the fewer potential soldiers, and the fewer taxpayers.

When the exemption was first approved in 1948, it involved barely 400 men. Four decades later, in 1992, the Torah-study exemption was granted to 5% of that year’s conscription-age cohort of 18-year-olds. This year, 2007, the proportion reached 11%. In 2019, the exempted yeshiva students are projected to top 23% of the cohort, which is the proportion of Haredi students among this year’s first graders — the most straightforward predictor.

The figures are contained in reports issued in July by two Israeli government agencies. One, released by the army’s manpower division, simply states the proportions of conscripts and exemptees. According to the report, just under 24% of all 18-year-olds will be exempted from the draft this coming fall. Of those, 11% — close to half — will be excused because of Torah studies. The rest will be divided roughly evenly among Israelis living abroad, those with criminal records, medical deferments and those found “psychologically unfit” — by health or inclination — for military service.

Nonreligious exemptions have declined in recent years, but Torah exemptions have soared. The main reason is fertility: The Haredi community averages 7.6 children per woman, roughly triple the rate for the population as a whole, according to the Israel government’s Central Bureau of Statistics.

The demographic trend is demonstrated plainly in another report, prepared by the statistics bureau for the Ministry of Education. The report shows enrollment figures in Israel’s three separate Jewish school systems, the state-secular, state-religious (Modern Orthodox) and Haredi streams. In the 15 years from 1992 to 2007, the proportion of Jewish children attending state-secular elementary schools dropped to 55% of the total from 67%; in 2012 it is projected to fall to 51%. The percentage attending Haredi schools, meanwhile, went from 12.4% in 1992 to 26.7% in 2007 and a projected 31% in 2012. Modern Orthodox schools (whose graduates do perform military service) remain steady throughout at roughly 18%.

At some point in the late 2020s, if current trends continue, the percentage of Israeli Jews claiming army exemption due to Torah study will pass the 30% mark and continue climbing.

These figures don’t include the schools of Israel’s Arab community, which is almost entirely exempt from military service. The Israeli Arab birthrate is climbing, as well, although nowhere near the pace of Haredi increase.

Factoring in the Arab schools, Israel’s elementary-school population in 2012 will look like this: 41.7% state-secular, 13.5% state-religious, 17.4% Haredi and 27.4% Arab. Unless something changes drastically, Israel’s military draft pool will fall below 50% of draft-age youth by the year 2030 or soon after.

One can only pray that Israel reaches stable peace with its neighbors before it runs out of draftees.

But even peace will not solve the problem of Haredi men removed from the work force by their prolonged yeshiva studies. At present, just 30% of Haredi men participate in the work force. Almost half the Haredi population lives below the official poverty line. As the Haredi share of the population grows, pressure will mount on the tax rolls, the welfare system and inter-communal tolerance and civility.

Attempts have been made to integrate the Haredi community into essential aspects of Israeli society, but with little effect. A special Haredi unit of the army was created, shielded from contact with women soldiers and enriched with Torah study. So far it has drawn only a few hundred men. Most of them, ironically, are not Haredim but settlers, Modern Orthodox Jews who would serve in the army anyway, but prefer the stricter religious milieu of the “Haredi” units.

Efforts have also been made to amend the draft laws so that young Haredi men can hold jobs. The latest was floated in late July by Israel’s Finance Ministry. Past efforts have met fierce resistance from Haredi rabbis, who view Torah study as sublime and employment as a distraction. Ideally, the solution can be found through mutual compromise. Unfortunately, most of the compromising will have to come from the Haredi leadership, a group known for its uncompromising views in matters of faith.

The debate turns familiar categories of Jewish loyalty on their heads. We’re not accustomed, especially in the Diaspora, to the idea that those Jews who are most devoted to Judaism might constitute a threat to the Jewish future. The hidden demographic crisis is a wakeup call to all sides.

http://www.forward.com/articles/11292/

And now, Israel's brutal policies against the Palestinians are creating a growing number of conscientious objectors in Israel. At some point in the very near future, Israel is going to have to make a decision: is it going to abolish most exemptions (which will really tick off many in the Haredi community) so that it can increase its draft pool and continue trying to impose its will through military force -- or is it going to try something bold and new: learning to get along with its neighbors through diplomatic means.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

This is what these kids want no part of -- enabling and protecting Israel's fanatic/hoodlum settler trash as they squat in their illegal settlements on Palestinian land, and rampage through the area terrorizing the Palestinian population:

Last update - 22:27 24/07/2008

Settler holds knife to IDF soldier's throat in West Bank riot

By Yuval Azoulay, Haaretz Correspondent, and The Associated Press

A settler attacked an Israel Defense Forces soldier at the West Bank outpost of Havat Gilad Thursday afternoon, holding a knife to the soldier's throat and forcibly removing his helmet from his head. The attacker then fled the scene.

The incident occurred during a confrontation between settlers and Israeli soldiers in the area, west of Nablus.

Other settlers at Havat Gilad set Palestinian olive groves on fire, sparking several field fires.

Earlier Thursday, Palestinian security officials said that more than 20 settlers had attacked another Palestinian village in the West Bank, Burin, smashing cars and windows and cutting electricity wires.

Israeli police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld, however, said settlers never entered the village itself although there were scuffles between Palestinians and Israelis outside Burin on the road to the nearby settlement of Yitzhar.

When police and soldiers intervened to restore order, a settler snatched a soldier's gun and fired in the air before being disarmed and arrested, Rosenfeld and the military said.

No injuries were immediately reported in the violence.

The disturbances began after IDF troops evacuated a group of settlers from a bus parked illegally as a residential structure at the Adei Ad outpost.

According to reports, the settlers made their way to the Yitzhar and Shiloh Junctions, and then to Burin, where they burned tires and hurled stones at Palestinian cars.

Palestinian policemen said dozens of houses and cars were damaged, and that shots were fired in the air when Israel Defense Forces soldiers arrived on the scene.

The closest settlement to Burin is Yitzhar, where a settler was arrested this month for allegedly trying to launch a homemade rocket at Burin.

Yitzhar is a known hotbed of ultranationalist Israelis who believe that the West Bank is part of the biblical land of Israel promised to the Jewish people by God. They oppose any concessions to the Palestinians.

An instructor at the seminary was arrested in 2006 on suspicion of inciting violence against Arabs.

Yitzhar residents have repeatedly fought farmers from the Palestinian villages that surround their hilltop settlement and have clashed with police sent to supervise demolition of unlicensed buildings in the area.

In 2006, the Israel Defense Forces withdrew troops stationed at Yitzhar for its protection, citing repeated settler attacks on soldiers and destruction of military equipment.

Border Policeman, IDF officer wounded in Na'alin

Meanwhile, about 150 Palestinians and Israelis demonstrated on Thursday against the construction of the separation fence in the West Bank village of Na'alin.

The protests turned confrontational when demonstrators began hurling rocks at IDF and Border Police forces, lighly wounding an officer and policeman.

The IDF said forces fired tear gas and rubber-tipped bullets at protesters in response to the disturbances, and said the violence stemmed from a misunderstanding between Israeli and Palestinian security forces.

The protests, which have occurred quite regularly of late, have often ended in violence and light injuries.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1005198.html

[Tunisia216 2]

I'm hoping and praying that's the way they will go...

or is it going to try something bold and new: learning to get along with its neighbors through diplomatic means.

[Nasturtium 500]

Personally, I would think as long as one was not in favor of Israel's military endevors, one would be happy to have Yeshiva students exempted along with COs, etc.

I figured the numbers had increased, but I was not in the position to search very hard at that moment-- thus I was sure to quote the years from which I got my numbers. Thanks for the crrent numbers.

Honestly, i don't see why they are objecting to service. Ok, I mean I see their arguments, but they are invalid IMO. This military service does not contradict anything in Torah, and in fact would be in keeping with the Torah as able-bodied males were always conscripted to fight. Without the temple records, one is not going to be able to claim tribal exemption either. And just because one has to deal in unclean things doesn't in itself make for a sin, just ritual uncleanliness. IMO being able to study Torah all day would be awesome, but the key phrase is "being able to so so"-- in other words, if you have to work, do survival things (like tend your fields, make dinner, etc), or serve in the army-- there is no fault to do your work and then study Torah, especially since they are only taking 2-3 years, with then monthly obligations after that point and you have haredi unit possibilities. I see the frustrations of others as being valid.

Isra'el's population is about 6.8 million as per the 1995 census. The Yeshiva students who are exempted are about 30,000 at this point, which is estimated to include an exemption of about 10-15% of the draftable population (as per wikipedia and other online searchings). By the way, that is not what makes you an Orthodox Jew nor does just being an Orthodox Jew mean an exemption. One must study at least 45 hours/week and not hold a job. If either are broken before the end of Yeshiva, the student will be made to make up a shortened term. Secular Jews may protest the exemption, but not everyone does-- thus the disagreement. Some people feel the study of Torah is integral in preserving the Jewish heritiage.

Figures have increased since 1995, of course. The current population of Israel is 7,282,000 (May 2008.) Nearly 1.4 million of these are Muslim or Christian Arabs, all of whom are exempt from mandatory military service. The number of yeshiva students has nearly doubled since the mid '90s -- the IDF Department of Planning and Manpower Administration says there are currently 55,300 Israelis who have declared Torah study as their occupation (July 2008.)

So -- we start with nearly 20% of the population already exempt because of their ethnicity. Now add in the yeshiva students and other Jewish religious groups mentioned, plus all Druze women, plus the more than 30% of Jewish women who are exempt because of their religious views, because they are married, pregnant, have medical exemptions or because they are conscientious objectors. When you total it all up, this means that nearly *half* of all draft-age Israelis are not required to serve.

The issue of the yeshiva students’ exemption in particular has become quite controversial in Israel, and is the target of a lot of resentment. In 2007, nearly 11% of the draft-age population qualified for exemptions as yeshiva students. But as the article below explains, this number is growing exponentially. Some Israelis question the wisdom of a policy that they see as encouraging a huge drain on the potential number of draftees. Even more worrisome, the policy effectively removes these yeshiva students from the workforce for decades -- the exemption can be renewed until age 41 when the person becomes permanently exempt. (Another way that yeshiva students can get a permanent exemption is to serve 1 year in the civil service.) This permanent student-hood for such a large group becomes an enormous burden on the economy, and the problem is getting worse:

Israel’s Hidden Crisis

Fri. Aug 03, 2007

Israel faces no end of threats and challenges, any one of which is capable of fueling endless discussion — not to mention anxiety — among Jews and gentiles around the globe. There is one challenge, however, that’s rarely discussed above a whisper outside Israel, because of its extreme sensitivity. You might call it the hidden Jewish demographic crisis: the population explosion among the Jewish state’s Haredi or ultra-Orthodox Jews, and the implications of that growth for Israel’s long-term survival.

Why should a growing level of piety be considered a national “challenge”? For one simple reason: Haredi men are almost entirely exempted from military service, in deference to their religious convictions. Under a rule enacted at the time of Israel’s founding, draft-age men are excused from serving if they are engaged in full-time Torah study at a recognized academy through age 40. The rule has the dual effect of removing yeshiva students from both the military and the work force. The more Haredim, experience shows, the fewer potential soldiers, and the fewer taxpayers.

When the exemption was first approved in 1948, it involved barely 400 men. Four decades later, in 1992, the Torah-study exemption was granted to 5% of that year’s conscription-age cohort of 18-year-olds. This year, 2007, the proportion reached 11%. In 2019, the exempted yeshiva students are projected to top 23% of the cohort, which is the proportion of Haredi students among this year’s first graders — the most straightforward predictor.

The figures are contained in reports issued in July by two Israeli government agencies. One, released by the army’s manpower division, simply states the proportions of conscripts and exemptees. According to the report, just under 24% of all 18-year-olds will be exempted from the draft this coming fall. Of those, 11% — close to half — will be excused because of Torah studies. The rest will be divided roughly evenly among Israelis living abroad, those with criminal records, medical deferments and those found “psychologically unfit” — by health or inclination — for military service.

Nonreligious exemptions have declined in recent years, but Torah exemptions have soared. The main reason is fertility: The Haredi community averages 7.6 children per woman, roughly triple the rate for the population as a whole, according to the Israel government’s Central Bureau of Statistics.

The demographic trend is demonstrated plainly in another report, prepared by the statistics bureau for the Ministry of Education. The report shows enrollment figures in Israel’s three separate Jewish school systems, the state-secular, state-religious (Modern Orthodox) and Haredi streams. In the 15 years from 1992 to 2007, the proportion of Jewish children attending state-secular elementary schools dropped to 55% of the total from 67%; in 2012 it is projected to fall to 51%. The percentage attending Haredi schools, meanwhile, went from 12.4% in 1992 to 26.7% in 2007 and a projected 31% in 2012. Modern Orthodox schools (whose graduates do perform military service) remain steady throughout at roughly 18%.

At some point in the late 2020s, if current trends continue, the percentage of Israeli Jews claiming army exemption due to Torah study will pass the 30% mark and continue climbing.

These figures don’t include the schools of Israel’s Arab community, which is almost entirely exempt from military service. The Israeli Arab birthrate is climbing, as well, although nowhere near the pace of Haredi increase.

Factoring in the Arab schools, Israel’s elementary-school population in 2012 will look like this: 41.7% state-secular, 13.5% state-religious, 17.4% Haredi and 27.4% Arab. Unless something changes drastically, Israel’s military draft pool will fall below 50% of draft-age youth by the year 2030 or soon after.

One can only pray that Israel reaches stable peace with its neighbors before it runs out of draftees.

But even peace will not solve the problem of Haredi men removed from the work force by their prolonged yeshiva studies. At present, just 30% of Haredi men participate in the work force. Almost half the Haredi population lives below the official poverty line. As the Haredi share of the population grows, pressure will mount on the tax rolls, the welfare system and inter-communal tolerance and civility.

Attempts have been made to integrate the Haredi community into essential aspects of Israeli society, but with little effect. A special Haredi unit of the army was created, shielded from contact with women soldiers and enriched with Torah study. So far it has drawn only a few hundred men. Most of them, ironically, are not Haredim but settlers, Modern Orthodox Jews who would serve in the army anyway, but prefer the stricter religious milieu of the “Haredi” units.

Efforts have also been made to amend the draft laws so that young Haredi men can hold jobs. The latest was floated in late July by Israel’s Finance Ministry. Past efforts have met fierce resistance from Haredi rabbis, who view Torah study as sublime and employment as a distraction. Ideally, the solution can be found through mutual compromise. Unfortunately, most of the compromising will have to come from the Haredi leadership, a group known for its uncompromising views in matters of faith.

The debate turns familiar categories of Jewish loyalty on their heads. We’re not accustomed, especially in the Diaspora, to the idea that those Jews who are most devoted to Judaism might constitute a threat to the Jewish future. The hidden demographic crisis is a wakeup call to all sides.

http://www.forward.com/articles/11292/

And now, Israel's brutal policies against the Palestinians are creating a growing number of conscientious objectors in Israel. At some point in the very near future, Israel is going to have to make a decision: is it going to abolish most exemptions (which will really tick off many in the Haredi community) so that it can increase its draft pool and continue trying to impose its will through military force -- or is it going to try something bold and new: learning to get along with its neighbors through diplomatic means.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Personally, I would think as long as one was not in favor of Israel's military endevors, one would be happy to have Yeshiva students exempted along with COs, etc.

Who said I'm not happy about it ?

I figured the numbers had increased, but I was not in the position to search very hard at that moment-- thus I was sure to quote the years from which I got my numbers. Thanks for the crrent numbers.

I wanted to give the current figures as a comparison to the 1995 figures, to show the trend. The number of yeshiva students has increased at a much greater rate than the population. This is a serious concern for the military, and could affect political decisions.

Honestly, i don't see why they are objecting to service. Ok, I mean I see their arguments, but they are invalid IMO. This military service does not contradict anything in Torah, and in fact would be in keeping with the Torah as able-bodied males were always conscripted to fight. Without the temple records, one is not going to be able to claim tribal exemption either. And just because one has to deal in unclean things doesn't in itself make for a sin, just ritual uncleanliness. IMO being able to study Torah all day would be awesome, but the key phrase is "being able to so so"-- in other words, if you have to work, do survival things (like tend your fields, make dinner, etc), or serve in the army-- there is no fault to do your work and then study Torah, especially since they are only taking 2-3 years, with then monthly obligations after that point and you have haredi unit possibilities. I see the frustrations of others as being valid.

Well.... there are so many different groups with so many different interpretations of the same passages. But this particular group -- the Haredi -- has a lot of political clout, so they have gotten a lot of legislation passed that is favorable to their beliefs. And according to their projected birthrate, they will soon become a major segment of Israeli society. This could definitely affect Israeli policy, even change it drastically.

[Alex+R 0]

Uh...Israel DOES have a policy that you can basically do community service instead of fight. You just sit around and help run a kibbutz like a hippie.

I can support these kids not wanting to be part of the Israeli military in any way at all, though, even though they do have an option not to fight.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Uh...Israel DOES have a policy that you can basically do community service instead of fight. You just sit around and help run a kibbutz like a hippie.

I can support these kids not wanting to be part of the Israeli military in any way at all, though, even though they do have an option not to fight.

You can only get CO status in Israel if you refuse all military duties. The Israeli High Court of Justice ruled that refusal to serve in the Palestinian territories is "selective refusal" rather than "conscientious objection." So these youths are not eligible for the alternative community service thing.

[Nasturtium 500]

Actually, I meant Palilover. She seemed very much upset at the "parasitic" nature of yeshiva students and thought they should fight.

Personally, I would think as long as one was not in favor of Israel's military endevors, one would be happy to have Yeshiva students exempted along with COs, etc.

Who said I'm not happy about it ?

[Tunisia216 2]

Juliana... I see you!!!! Come chat!!

Actually, I meant Palilover. She seemed very much upset at the "parasitic" nature of yeshiva students and thought they should fight.

Personally, I would think as long as one was not in favor of Israel's military endevors, one would be happy to have Yeshiva students exempted along with COs, etc.

Who said I'm not happy about it ?

[Nasturtium 500]

Juliana... I see you!!!! Come chat!!

Actually, I meant Palilover. She seemed very much upset at the "parasitic" nature of yeshiva students and thought they should fight.

Personally, I would think as long as one was not in favor of Israel's military endevors, one would be happy to have Yeshiva students exempted along with COs, etc.

Who said I'm not happy about it ?

It won't work on this computer. I'm at work.