~ Human Rights ~

[Donna A 4]

ur human rights allow u to marry who ever u want but doesnt mean they have to let them live in this county.

[MsZ 6]

You're right, Donna.

It is reasonable to look for anything that can possibly allow you to support having your case moved through immigration in a speedy and logical manner. But some of this is simply grasping at straws.

[Catt 6]

Declaration of Human Rights?

Are you serious?

Obviously yes, hence the thread

Sarah had the right reflex. It definitely can be argued that keeping families apart for, in some cases, more than a year while they are waiting for a visa, is a violation of their human rights.

Unfortunately, there is no body like the ECHR to make sure the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is abided by, so it has in practice less of a kick to it than for example the European Convention on Human Rights (for Europe).

Aren't bodies like the ECHR created to protect people from things like oppressive governments, tanks rolling in the streets, genocide and the like?

Actually, no, that's not at all what the European Court on Human Rights mainly does.

If you read the European Convention on Human Rights, you'll see it goes much further than that. The case law (all available online), will clearly show you that the ECHR is not so much focused on "tanks rolling in the streets" and "genocide", but more on right to a fair trial (Article 6) etc.

Also, check the caselaw about Article 8 of the Convention. This is the Article relating to right of privacy and right of family life.

I do not know case law or jurisprudence in the US, so as a US Citizen you should know better whether or not there exists information there on similar legal provisions.

But I do know that this Article 8 is sometimes referred to in court cases about immigration here (for example deportation cases when the person in question has a Belgian child). Decisions of our local CIS are sometimes overturned by national courts, based on this Article, and using the general beacons set out by ECHR in its caselaw about this Article.

I understand your call for some perspective. But the reference to human rights provisions related to immigration cases isn't a long stretch in itself, i'd say.

[rebeccajo 14]

Declaration of Human Rights?

Are you serious?

Obviously yes, hence the thread

Sarah had the right reflex. It definitely can be argued that keeping families apart for, in some cases, more than a year while they are waiting for a visa, is a violation of their human rights.

Unfortunately, there is no body like the ECHR to make sure the Universal Declaration of Human Rights is abided by, so it has in practice less of a kick to it than for example the European Convention on Human Rights (for Europe).

Aren't bodies like the ECHR created to protect people from things like oppressive governments, tanks rolling in the streets, genocide and the like?

Actually, no, that's not at all what the European Court on Human Rights mainly does.

If you read the European Convention on Human Rights, you'll see it goes much further than that. The case law (all available online), will clearly show you that the ECHR is not so much focused on "tanks rolling in the streets" and "genocide", but more on right to a fair trial (Article 6) etc.

Also, check the caselaw about Article 8 of the Convention. This is the Article relating to right of privacy and right of family life.

I do not know case law or jurisprudence in the US, so as a US Citizen you should know better whether or not there exists information there on similar legal provisions.

But I do know that this Article 8 is sometimes referred to in court cases about immigration here (for example deportation cases when the person in question has a Belgian child). Decisions of our local CIS are sometimes overturned by national courts, based on this Article, and using the general beacons set out by ECHR in its caselaw about this Article.

I understand your call for some perspective. But the reference to human rights provisions related to immigration cases isn't a long stretch in itself, i'd say.

Fair enough. But by your own example of a deportation case, you've hit the nail squarely on the head.

Delays are a pain in the butt with our system. But the type of delays you and your peers are experiencing at present don't equal a violation of your 'human rights'. By your own example you cite the deportation of a child as an example of where the ECHR might step in.

Read around this board and elsewhere on the web for true examples of where the US immigration system has run afoul of family unity. You might find some peace of mind insofar as your own case goes if you put yourself in the shoes of those individuals.

And BTW, if you REALLY want to make a stand for improving the system for the welfare of all and beyond your own case, join a political action committee. There are many out there including my favorite, American Families United.

[Catt 6]

I was obviously not referring to a deportation of a Belgian child out of Belgium. Since the child has the Belgian nationality, there would be no way it would be in danger of deportation from that country. The referrence was made to (threat of) deportation of the parent of this child, being illegal in the country.

I don't really follow your reasoning for deciding this proves your point? This was merely an example for of how immigration issues and human rights provisions are definitely not mutually exclusive.

Also, I rather resent your tone.

First of all why do you refer to "you and your peers"? I was not commenting on my own case. My comment was a general comment, because i felt your "are you serious" reply about this entire thread was uncalled for.

Finally, it is not your place to decide what someone else should do or not, and what organisation they should join. It is for each person to decide that for themselves.

No reason to get mean or condescending just because people disagree with your posts or because you disagree with theirs.

[rebeccajo 14]

I was obviously not referring to a deportation of a Belgian child out of Belgium. Since the child has the Belgian nationality, there would be no way it would be in danger of deportation from that country. The referrence was made to (threat of) deportation of the parent of this child, being illegal in the country.

I don't really follow your reasoning for deciding this proves your point? This was merely an example for of how immigration issues and human rights provisions are definitely not mutually exclusive.

Also, I rather resent your tone.

First of all why do you refer to "you and your peers"? I was not commenting on my own case. My comment was a general comment, because i felt your "are you serious" reply about this entire thread was uncalled for.

Finally, it is not your place to decide what someone else should do or not, and what organisation they should join. It is for each person to decide that for themselves.

No reason to get mean or condescending just because people disagree with your posts or because you disagree with theirs.

I understood completely what you meant about the deportation of a child. IMO it 'proves my point' (if you care to take that perspective on it) from the standpoint that the permanent separation of parent and child is far more serious than having to wait a few months for a visa to be issued.

I refer to you and your peers because I'm addressing those of you who are not unrightfully dismayed about your processing times - although I do idly note those times are much improved over those a few months ago.

I really don't care if you dislike my comments. I've read a few comments here in this thread and others which I don't like either. Some are by far some of the most mean-spirited and gratutitous I've read in a while. If you find my tone condescending - it wasn't. I was and still am merely amazed that some of you would consider waiting for a visa to be a violation of your human rights. I'd suggest you take a look around the world at some real oppression before you delude yourselves further with that fantasy.

Edited June 1, 2008 by rebeccajo

[Army_Wife 2]

Wow, there was certainly a little discention on this subject yesterday .... but I think the point of the thread was lost amongst tanks and war conversation ..... the reason I posted this thread was

"(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State."

I'm sorry guys, but yes, that does cover the fact that families are split apart by an unjust immigration system .... the voice of the I-130 applicants has actually been very quiet (oddly enough), to the right people.

Sure, I see lots of discussion about it on this website and the odd fax going to Senators and the White House .... but really, not much else.

Migrant workers are protected from unjust immigration systems .... i.e. H1-B's, who are able to bring their families to join them very fast.

The situation that is happening at VSC currently could very well be viewed as a violation to this section of Universal Human Rights. Family petitions are being ignored.

Those with children could at least fall under this and have the system sped up for them ..... it must be horrible having a child cry for its Daddy or Mommy every night for a year or so, just because Vermont are constatly working on Fiance visas ..... a lot of which are applied for by guys who have literally 'purchased' their brides off the internet.... before I'm jumped on, not all of them are, but there is more than a fair few.

So, yes, there is perspective .... a lot of it!

My view of the bigger picture, is obviously a little broader than the miserable people on here who think that it's acceptable for children to feel so much pain.

Whether a tank drives down the street of the child ..... or the child cries itself to sleep every night because Vermont has decided to ignore family petitions ..... to me is very much of a muchness.

[rebeccajo 14]

Wow, there was certainly a little discention on this subject yesterday .... but I think the point of the thread was lost amongst tanks and war conversation ..... the reason I posted this thread was

"(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State."

I'm sorry guys, but yes, that does cover the fact that families are split apart by an unjust immigration system .... the voice of the I-130 applicants has actually been very quiet (oddly enough), to the right people.

Sure, I see lots of discussion about it on this website and the odd fax going to Senators and the White House .... but really, not much else.

Migrant workers are protected from unjust immigration systems .... i.e. H1-B's, who are able to bring their families to join them very fast.

The situation that is happening at VSC currently could very well be viewed as a violation to this section of Universal Human Rights. Family petitions are being ignored.

Those with children could at least fall under this and have the system sped up for them ..... it must be horrible having a child cry for its Daddy or Mommy every night for a year or so, just because Vermont are constatly working on Fiance visas ..... a lot of which are applied for by guys who have literally 'purchased' their brides off the internet.... before I'm jumped on, not all of them are, but there is more than a fair few.

So, yes, there is perspective .... a lot of it!

My view of the bigger picture, is obviously a little broader than the miserable people on here who think that it's acceptable for children to feel so much pain.

Whether a tank drives down the street of the child ..... or the child cries itself to sleep every night because Vermont has decided to ignore family petitions ..... to me is very much of a muchness.

Sarah Jane.....

Your hue and cry though hasn't a thing to do with children. It has to do with the fact that YOUR petition is taking what you think is too long.

It's true the family immigration process in the US is too long and drawn out. But the fact of the matter is that you and the posters to this thread have suffered no injustice compared to a true human rights violation. Look to Myanmar and other countries where their governments are so unkempt they can't even help their citizens if you need proof of that.

[HOHOHO 0]

Wow, there was certainly a little discention on this subject yesterday .... but I think the point of the thread was lost amongst tanks and war conversation ..... the reason I posted this thread was

"(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State."

I'm sorry guys, but yes, that does cover the fact that families are split apart by an unjust immigration system .... the voice of the I-130 applicants has actually been very quiet (oddly enough), to the right people.

Sure, I see lots of discussion about it on this website and the odd fax going to Senators and the White House .... but really, not much else.

Migrant workers are protected from unjust immigration systems .... i.e. H1-B's, who are able to bring their families to join them very fast.

The situation that is happening at VSC currently could very well be viewed as a violation to this section of Universal Human Rights. Family petitions are being ignored.

Those with children could at least fall under this and have the system sped up for them ..... it must be horrible having a child cry for its Daddy or Mommy every night for a year or so, just because Vermont are constatly working on Fiance visas ..... a lot of which are applied for by guys who have literally 'purchased' their brides off the internet.... before I'm jumped on, not all of them are, but there is more than a fair few.

So, yes, there is perspective .... a lot of it!

My view of the bigger picture, is obviously a little broader than the miserable people on here who think that it's acceptable for children to feel so much pain.

Whether a tank drives down the street of the child ..... or the child cries itself to sleep every night because Vermont has decided to ignore family petitions ..... to me is very much of a muchness.

Sarah Jane.....

Your hue and cry though hasn't a thing to do with children. It has to do with the fact that YOUR petition is taking what you think is too long.

It's true the family immigration process in the US is too long and drawn out. But the fact of the matter is that you and the posters to this thread have suffered no injustice compared to a true human rights violation. Look to Myanmar and other countries where their governments are so unkempt they can't even help their citizens if you need proof of that.

Lets up the ante in riddiclous arguments:

YAY YAY I"M HAPPY CUZ things beTTER than MyANmar!!!

what a great attitude! I'll just whistle zippeddeedooda for the next 23 years! HORRAY! Things better than in Congo and better than steppng on a land mine!

YES its a form of human rights violation, but NO the UN isn't going to do anything about it.

The UN, isn't so keen on stopping Genocides or Tanks either. Just Posering like they give a rats ####### about the world.