Medical Exam in Moscow

[visaveteran1 33]

yep... you, unarmed, vs a gang of nine guys ten, fifteen years your junior with knives to slit your throat (the Russian way)--maybe if you're Chuck Norris. but otherwise, you're screwed.

I dont need to worry about my safety, I am better equipped to handle myself against a male attacker than my fiancee is. THAT is why I worry about her safety.

Not necessarily. When you're alone in a big foreign city, you (as a foreigner male) are going to be "attacked" by more than one guy and they're probably going to use violence or the threat of violence (maybe even with a weapon) in an attempt to forcefully take money. Or, they're just super drunk and going to beat you up for sport.

A woman alone in a city is going to be "attacked" by either a sober man or two in an attempt to force sex on her or by a drunk person (or people) that are also looking either for sex or maybe a purse or something.

Guys get beat up and taken to the ATM and then beat up some more. Women get their purse snatched or beat up and then raped. Either way, it's usually more of a "wrong place at the wrong time" scenario in which being a man or woman isn't going to help you avoid the "attack." What is going to help you is being an American man with enough money to not be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Since you can pay for more "security" than she can, I can see you being more worried about her. But, being a guy walking alone at night doesn't ensure your safety (especially in Moscow) any more than it would for your fiancee. If anything, I agree with the ladies above and say it would increase your risk.

Sure, I feel better defending myself walking down a dark alley than seeing my girl do it. But, in all reality, the situations that put me (us, as foreigner dudes) in danger probably don't put her (the Russian and even American ladies) in the same danger.

And that's why I never worry about her.

I hear a lot of speculation but no personal accounts. War stories. The idea that the a man is in more danger than woman is a unique concept in ANY country in the world...except maybe the Amazon.

Russian men are more lovers than fighters out on the street. The mean Russians are the ex commandos, KGBers, secret police, and generals...now they can cut your throat but only if you're higher up the food chain where serious money or power issues are at stake. But the common Russian man doesn't worry me...usually they're too drunk to be very dangerous.

The vision of a "gang of armed thugs" roaming the streets is something I've never seen in 4 different cities in Russia and several other FSU countries. I have seen a pack of wild dogs a few times...but now gangs.

The only targets of group attacks I've heard of is Muslims from neighboring countries who come to work in Russia. Often these Muslims will work during Russian holidays and will often pay the price by getting their shops and markets trashed. But that's a different issue than random encounters.

Anyone have a personal encounter with armed thugs? I don't mean "I have a friend" stories but personal accounts.

[eekee 182]

Someone whom I shared several friends/acquaintances with was murdered and one of my friends was almost murdered but got away in time. By gangs. I think that answers your question?

It's very different going there for a few weeks and not being able to speak Russian and taking the route one needs to take to seduce a lady versus living there for a long time. You see and understand things very differently. You know that when the news says "hooligans" what they really mean is "neo-nazi fascists who are out to kill anyone who is not ethnically Slavic."

I hear a lot of speculation but no personal accounts. War stories. The idea that the a man is in more danger than woman is a unique concept in ANY country in the world...except maybe the Amazon.

Russian men are more lovers than fighters out on the street. The mean Russians are the ex commandos, KGBers, secret police, and generals...now they can cut your throat but only if you're higher up the food chain where serious money or power issues are at stake. But the common Russian man doesn't worry me...usually they're too drunk to be very dangerous.

The vision of a "gang of armed thugs" roaming the streets is something I've never seen in 4 different cities in Russia and several other FSU countries. I have seen a pack of wild dogs a few times...but now gangs.

The only targets of group attacks I've heard of is Muslims from neighboring countries who come to work in Russia. Often these Muslims will work during Russian holidays and will often pay the price by getting their shops and markets trashed. But that's a different issue than random encounters.

Anyone have a personal encounter with armed thugs? I don't mean "I have a friend" stories but personal accounts.

Edited April 11, 2008 by eekee

[visaveteran1 33]

Someone whom I shared several friends/acquaintances with was murdered and one of my friends was almost murdered but got away in time. By gangs. I think that answers your question?

It's very different going there for a few weeks and not being able to speak Russian and taking the route one needs to take to seduce a lady versus living there for a long time. You see and understand things very differently. You know that when the news says "hooligans" what they really mean is "neo-nazi fascists who are out to kill anyone who is not ethnically Slavic."

I hear a lot of speculation but no personal accounts. War stories. The idea that the a man is in more danger than woman is a unique concept in ANY country in the world...except maybe the Amazon.

Russian men are more lovers than fighters out on the street. The mean Russians are the ex commandos, KGBers, secret police, and generals...now they can cut your throat but only if you're higher up the food chain where serious money or power issues are at stake. But the common Russian man doesn't worry me...usually they're too drunk to be very dangerous.

The vision of a "gang of armed thugs" roaming the streets is something I've never seen in 4 different cities in Russia and several other FSU countries. I have seen a pack of wild dogs a few times...but now gangs.

The only targets of group attacks I've heard of is Muslims from neighboring countries who come to work in Russia. Often these Muslims will work during Russian holidays and will often pay the price by getting their shops and markets trashed. But that's a different issue than random encounters.

Anyone have a personal encounter with armed thugs? I don't mean "I have a friend" stories but personal accounts.

Sorry to hear about your friends. You did not mention if your friends were Americans.

Of course, I can name any country in east or west Europe and hear similar stories...but are the streets really not safe for American men who use common sense? Maybe if you're out on the streets at 3 am near a rough club in the wrong side of town...just like anywhere in the world.

I actually think Americans are safer in Russia as many young people like our music, clothes, sports and culture. If Americans were dying in Russia or were in danger, it would be big news and the state dept. would put out an alert.

BTW, the attitude behind your use of the term "seduce" is not appreciated. I'm not a sex tourist. And I've clocked about 23 weeks in Russia and the FSU...far more than "a week" here or there. I've rented a house and three flats so you need to loose the attitude you know more than others do.

[eekee 182]

OK OK fine... "courting." I didn't mean to offend you in any way. I didn't realize that seduce would be offensive. But if your purpose in going to Russia is to find a woman to marry, then you are in fact going there for seduction in some way. Not in the sense of sex tourism, but still in a certain sense.

Still, it is a different experience. The fact that you haven't seen any gangs in Russia and think that the issue with race/neo-nazis is limited to the shops of muslims being smashed during holidays leads me to believe that. My neighborhood was in the territory of a certain gang who put their sign all over the street and wrote messages like NIGER OUT. And it was a relatively good neighborhood very near the center.

1 was American; one was not but i can't really get into specifics here. I know other Americans who were beat up as well, but no Russians.

Anyway, while it's true that it is generally minorities are targeted it is only recently that the Russian government has stopped denying it's happening. there was a wall street journal article about it a couple of days ago. The other issue is that most people do not report things to the police. And once you do report it, it can be hard to take it seriously and if the people who did it know where you live and can identify you, well...

As far as whether Russians like Americans... well, they like to copy African-American hip hop styles but no one is ever going to make the case that Russians like black people. It doesn't really make a difference whether they co-opt American styles or not.

Sorry to hear about your friends. You did not mention if your friends were Americans.

Of course, I can name any country in east or west Europe and hear similar stories...but are the streets really not safe for American men who use common sense? Maybe if you're out on the streets at 3 am near a rough club in the wrong side of town...just like anywhere in the world.

I actually think Americans are safer in Russia as many young people like our music, clothes, sports and culture. If Americans were dying in Russia or were in danger, it would be big news and the state dept. would put out an alert.

BTW, the attitude behind your use of the term "seduce" is not appreciated. I'm not a sex tourist. And I've clocked about 23 weeks in Russia and the FSU...far more than "a week" here or there. I've rented a house and three flats so you need to loose the attitude you know more than others do.

Edited April 11, 2008 by eekee

[eekee 182]

and by the way, my information comes from what was told to me by one of Russia's leading experts on the subject of the rise of neo-nazis in Russia and human rights in Russia. What does one need to have to be considered an "expert" on russia, in your opinion? a phd?

Edited April 11, 2008 by eekee

[mox 298]

and by the way, my information comes from what was told to me by one of Russia's leading experts on the subject of the rise of neo-nazis in Russia and human rights in Russia. What does one need to have to be considered an "expert" on russia, in your opinion? a phd?

A man.

(kidding! kidding! I saw the opening, I had to take it. )

[visaveteran1 33]

and by the way, my information comes from what was told to me by one of Russia's leading experts on the subject of the rise of neo-nazis in Russia and human rights in Russia. What does one need to have to be considered an "expert" on russia, in your opinion? a phd?

A man.

(kidding! kidding! I saw the opening, I had to take it. )

Right answer Mr. Mox!! And what do we have for our winner Chuck? Well...the lucky winner gets a one-year subscription to MS Magazine, a genuine rainbow bumper sticker that reads: "I'm a feminist too...my wife told me!" plus two tickets to the Ellen DeGeneres show..and, last but not least, an autographed photo of Gloria Steinem burning her bra in 1972. A sidebar story...some people now blame global warming on all the bras that were burned between 1968 and 1978. And remember those bras were burned well after the fire marshal banned open air fires. The guys don't get off the hook though...all those draft cards that were burned between 1965 and 1968 also contributed to our serious pollution problems.

[mox 298]

Right answer Mr. Mox!! And what do we have for our winner Chuck? Well...the lucky winner gets a one-year subscription to MS Magazine, a genuine rainbow bumper sticker that reads: "I'm a feminist too...my wife told me!" plus two tickets to the Ellen DeGeneres show..and, last but not least, an autographed photo of Gloria Steinem burning her bra in 1972. A sidebar story...some people now blame global warming on all the bras that were burned between 1968 and 1978. And remember those bras were burned well after the fire marshal banned open air fires. The guys don't get off the hook though...all those draft cards that were burned between 1965 and 1968 also contributed to our serious pollution problems.

[slim 1,514]

So, I gotta ask, Whats the Russian way of slitting a mans throat? I know "old fashioned" and "colombian Necktie", but not Russian.

I believe it involves a dull knife. Anyone can cut a throat with a sharp knife. A dull knife takes longer and is more insulting.

(I watched a video of a Russian soldier being executed in Chechnya a few years back. Someone had a boot on this guys head and then they just started sawing his neck with a hunting knife. What a graphic and horrific video. Really drove home the point that it's better to be killed than captured, and as long as you keep fighting, you'll never have to be executed like that.)

I think in Russia, especially in Moscow/St. Pete, anyone with money is going to be targeted for crime. However, I believe if you take simple steps to minimize your risk, you can avoid it 99% of the time, male or female. And of course, if you have the money to pay for your girl to minimize her risk, then by all means, do it.

Anyone have a personal encounter with armed thugs? I don't mean "I have a friend" stories but personal accounts.

While I was in Moscow my friend (also young American man) and I were walking down one of the busy streets (I believe it was the garden ring, anyway) after leaving one of the night clubs late at night and I told him we needed to change directions and head "that way" to get back to our flat. Well, "that way" was straight down a very dark, very small alleyway.

Needless to say, he wasn't thrilled about it and we spent the better part of 10 minutes arguing over the pros/cons of walking down the alley. Just when he was about to flag down a cab to ride the rest of the way home (which probably would've taken us down the dark alley anyway) I grabbed him and started walking. He was b!tching and moaning the whole time saying stuff like "If we get beat up or killed, it's your fault." (Like that even matters!) I reminded him two drunk American guys standing on the side of the busiest street in Moscow weren't exactly safe either, especially when they looked like they were arguing. We continued on through this dark alley and we could see the light at the end of the tunnel.

When we emerged, unscathed by the unknown dangers that lurked within, there was a huge light ahead, and we could see girls in bikinis dancing next to a pool. #######? We walked up to the flathead guarding the steps and he extorted a couple extra bucks from us and before we knew it, we were sipping adult beverages with the models next to the pool.

War story? I think not. But, sometimes a little risk brings about a nice reward. If I would've gotten my throat cut with a dull knife I wouldn't have shared this story. But, since it worked out nicely, that's the "war story" that I have to tell about my buddy and I overcoming our fear of the dark alley in Moscow.