Medical Exam in Moscow

[Chuckles 0]

Should they go into debt to satisfy their wives' every whim?

Slim and Sat, you are cheap bastards, get over yourselves, and admit it. I am sure your wives would agree.

No, but they come to boards, and call people out all the time, which by the way is refreashing sometimes !!! They know how to call a "duck a duck".

HOWEVER, when someone calls them a "duck" they insist they are a "goose" !!

GET OVER IT YOU CHEAP BASTARDS !!!

Don't explain it... Don't rationalize it... it makes you look stupid.

And I really don't care what their wives get or don't get, or how many whims they satisfy, but I have seen Sat's wife come to these boards and complain about his cheapness, and slim tells everyone outright his wife thinks he is cheap. So hence my comment... get over yourselves cheap skates!

[visaveteran1 33]

I think you guys in your mid-to-late 30's, 40's and even 50's need to remember how much money you had in your 20's. You were nowhere near generating the kind of cash you're generating now and nowhere near the amount of wealth and/or credit. Sure, an extra couple hundred bucks is nothing for you now. But would it have been 20 years ago?

So, don't call Satellite (and indirectly me too) cheap. Just understand that sometimes a calculated risk to save what money is available is necessary. Or, at the very minimum, paying extra for "piece of mind" just isn't an option. Yet. Hopefully the time will come when it is. But, by that time, it shouldn't even be necessary as the "calculated risk" has been done enough that it's no longer risky.

I don't think I've called Satellite "cheap" yet, I still haven't exhausted all the other things to call him. I'll add it to the list though.

The first quote is exactly the reason why I get so tired of Satellite (and I guess you, although you haven't been near as abrasive about it) coming in and telling everyone what an idiot they are because they spent $30 on a cab. Everyone here is in a different financial situation and a different time of their life. Maybe $30 is a lot to Satellite and you. But others find it affordable and are willing to pay. So when Sat comes in looking down his nose at anyone who can't figure out how to use the autobus (hint: it's not easy, even in Moscow) or just walk the 18 miles uphill through the snow in the dark to save 50 rubles, it gets annoying. Because YES we get it. There are cheaper alternatives. And yes, we know Satellite speaks the language and he knows the culture and we're all a bunch of dumbass tourists because we don't. We GET it.

So yeah, if $30 is a lot for you, then you're going to have to work the system a little bit more. But I for one am sick of being (implicitly) called a rube because saving time between terminals was worth a $30 cab ride to me. Because I guarantee that when Satellite starts pulling in that 6 figure salary, he's not going to be riding the goddamned autobus or hoofing it around Moscow. He's probably gonna rent a limousine and sip wine while cruising through the streets of Moscow. And occasionally he'll have the driver pull over so his wife can catch up.

Tell em Brother Mox...tell em! The discussion doesn't have to always drop to the lowest common means to get something done just to not offend the few who have made a champagne decision on beer budget.

[slim 1,514]

He's probably gonna rent a limousine and sip wine while cruising through the streets of Moscow. And occasionally he'll have the driver pull over so his wife can catch up.

Slim and Sat, you are cheap bastards, get over yourselves, and admit it. I am sure your wives would agree.

I am a cheap #######, I'll admit to that, and of course my wife would agree. However, I do agree with the concensus that anything that can be done to increase her comfort and especially security, should be paid for. What I'm doing though, is playing 's advocate (which seems to be my self-imposed duty now) and saying if the money's not there to pay for that stuff, it's not there. Don't make it into an "I care more about saving $100 than her safety" issue when that's not the case.

However, mox may be onto something that it's not so much a money vs. safety issue as much as it is a thumbing of the nose at you for overpaying issue. I don't know. Really, I don't care. I'm not insulted by anything anyone says. (In true AKDiver form, "You can't make me react to you, I can choose to react or not.")

You are absolutely right Slim, and If i indirectly called you Cheap, that was not my intention. But you are one of the people that braved this without a lot of money. I dont know how old you are, but I think mid 20's which puts us around 8-10 years apart (Im 34) and I would not have even contemplated doing this when I was in my early 20's like you did. Your absolutely right, I didnt have near enough money to do it. So, my hats off to you for your resourcefulness. But, we dont all throw away money like you suggest. My trip to go over and bring my fiancee back with me is $3030 and includes all airfare, hotel in Moscow, transfers, everything except money on the ground. I am all about not spending more than necessary.

First, I just turned 29, so we're only 5-6 years apart. That said, I was in complete financial shambles when I went over there and did all the paperwork to get her here. (Recently separated from the military, living in my dad's basement.... etc., etc., etc.) I tried to find all the best deals possible and still do. I'm not saying money should be pissed away for her every comfort and amenity, I'm only saying that for guys who are a little older and make very good money to call younger guys that are less financially set (like Satellite and myself) cheap at the expense of their fiancee's security is just not accurate. I'm not offended by it, it's just not reality.

And instead of taking a "Satellite is so wrong for saying we're all stupid for spending money on our girl's well-being" approach, I wish they'd take a "I'm older, I've got the money, glad I could do it for her" approach.

No, but they come to boards, and call people out all the time, which by the way is refreashing sometimes !!! They know how to call a "duck a duck".

HOWEVER, when someone calls them a "duck" they insist they are a "goose" !!

GET OVER IT YOU CHEAP BASTARDS !!!

Don't explain it... Don't rationalize it... it makes you look stupid.

And I really don't care what their wives get or don't get, or how many whims they satisfy, but I have seen Sat's wife come to these boards and complain about his cheapness, and slim tells everyone outright his wife thinks he is cheap. So hence my comment... get over yourselves cheap skates!

I could care less if you want to agree with me and my wife on me being cheap. It is true, I'm a cheap #######. But to say I think myself a goose is just not right. If I'm a duck, I'll say I'm a duck! After all, I said I'm cheap.

In this thread, I'm not arguing that I'm not cheap or even that Satellite's not cheap. We've both, time and again, said that we wouldn't pay as much money for some of the creature comforts and the like that other forum members have gladly paid for. What I am arguing is that when there's no money to pay for something, there's no money to pay for it, and that's not a conscious decision on either of our parts to unduely put our fiancee's in jeopardy. It's simply a matter of economics.

HONK! (err, I mean, ah, QUACK!)

[Chuckles 0]

I use coupons when I go grocery shopping. But I don't go on and on about it on the immigration message boards.

I'm bored at work and trying to was trying to liven things up a bit, its getting so PC in here... and Mox's message gave me a good laugh, I had to follow up on it.

[eekee 182]

You're really paying for YOUR safety, not your fiancee's. Trust me. Despite the fact that it is very counterintuitive, a foreign man is a lot less safe in Russia than a foreign man. The worst thing to ever happened to a woman I know is being pickpocketed. The worst thing that ever happened to a guy I know? I can't even talk about it because it's too dangerous as the culprits are still at large. I also know guys who have had the #### kicked out of them for walking down the street. When I'm with American guys, we're followed by narcomen and drunks and harassed by police. None of this happens when I'm with Russian girls. I actually felt safer walking home alone at night in SPb than where I am now because there's so many places open 24 hours that I could go into if i felt like something was wrong. But obviously foreign men who seem like they might have some cash in their pockets? Walking target. Your women survived just fine relying on their street smarts before you ever came into the picture. Sure it's nice to treat them and all, but as far as risk aversion goes...

[mox 298]

Despite the fact that it is very counterintuitive, a foreign man is a lot less safe in Russia than a foreign man.

Wait...what?

[eekee 182]

Haha, sorry. A foreign man is less safe than a Russian woman.

Despite the fact that it is very counterintuitive, a foreign man is a lot less safe in Russia than a foreign man.

Wait...what?

[visaveteran1 33]

You're really paying for YOUR safety, not your fiancee's. Trust me. Despite the fact that it is very counterintuitive, a foreign man is a lot less safe in Russia than a foreign man. The worst thing to ever happened to a woman I know is being pickpocketed. The worst thing that ever happened to a guy I know? I can't even talk about it because it's too dangerous as the culprits are still at large. I also know guys who have had the #### kicked out of them for walking down the street. When I'm with American guys, we're followed by narcomen and drunks and harassed by police. None of this happens when I'm with Russian girls. I actually felt safer walking home alone at night in SPb than where I am now because there's so many places open 24 hours that I could go into if i felt like something was wrong. But obviously foreign men who seem like they might have some cash in their pockets? Walking target. Your women survived just fine relying on their street smarts before you ever came into the picture. Sure it's nice to treat them and all, but as far as risk aversion goes...

Eekee, you travel in a young crowd and despite what you feel about yourself...you're no expert on Russia, and I find your anecdotal war stories interesting but based on a sample small enough to mean nothing. And I think younger men show a soft vulnerable presence that brings out the wolves. I've never been afraid in Russia...day or night. I've had to stare down a few drunks and punks but no big deal. My concern was for one specific issue...MOM based on reports of harassment and abuse. Knowing and observing Russia men around attractive women, I don't for a minute doubt the stories are true.

[eekee 182]

You're really not in a place to be able to make these kinds of assumptions about my life. But I do know what I've seen, and trust me it is not all about people under 30.

Eekee, you travel in a young crowd and despite what you feel about yourself...you're no expert on Russia, and I find your anecdotal war stories interesting but based on a sample small enough to mean nothing. And I think younger men show a soft vulnerable presence that brings out the wolves. I've never been afraid in Russia...day or night. I've had to stare down a few drunks and punks but no big deal. My concern was for one specific issue...MOM based on reports of harassment and abuse. Knowing and observing Russia men around attractive women, I don't for a minute doubt the stories are true.

[Bobalouie 0]

You're really paying for YOUR safety, not your fiancee's. Trust me. Despite the fact that it is very counterintuitive, a foreign man is a lot less safe in Russia than a foreign man. The worst thing to ever happened to a woman I know is being pickpocketed. The worst thing that ever happened to a guy I know? I can't even talk about it because it's too dangerous as the culprits are still at large. I also know guys who have had the #### kicked out of them for walking down the street. When I'm with American guys, we're followed by narcomen and drunks and harassed by police. None of this happens when I'm with Russian girls. I actually felt safer walking home alone at night in SPb than where I am now because there's so many places open 24 hours that I could go into if i felt like something was wrong. But obviously foreign men who seem like they might have some cash in their pockets? Walking target. Your women survived just fine relying on their street smarts before you ever came into the picture. Sure it's nice to treat them and all, but as far as risk aversion goes...

Everybodys got a different opinion. I have walked all over Odessa, Ukraine, Sochi and St. Pete and Moscow at all times of the night. No one has ever followed me, never been harassed by the cops, never had a moments pause. Hell, in my younger days, I would stupidly walk the worst parts of Sydney, Australia after all the bars let out for the night just to look for trouble. Never found any. So does that mean that no one has ever been rolled in Sydney? Just because it hasnt happened to you doesnt mean that it doesnt or can not happen or that it does not happen on a regular basis. For one, my fiancee WAS attacked when walking home to her house, not traveling through an unfamiliar city in a bad area. Got lucky enough to get away before they were able to do anything.

I pay for HER safety, not my own. Sometimes I might even shell out a little extra for my piece of mind that might be seen as excessive, but if it costs me an extra $100 bucks not to worry, so be it. There are too many confirmed reports of bad things happening to women in Russia. The chances of something happening to one of the ladies on this forum, very slim indeed, but why take the chance?

[eekee 182]

You're really not in a place to be able to make these kinds of assumptions about my life or what I know about. But I do know what I've seen, and trust me it is not all about people under 30.

Eekee, you travel in a young crowd and despite what you feel about yourself...you're no expert on Russia, and I find your anecdotal war stories interesting but based on a sample small enough to mean nothing. And I think younger men show a soft vulnerable presence that brings out the wolves. I've never been afraid in Russia...day or night. I've had to stare down a few drunks and punks but no big deal. My concern was for one specific issue...MOM based on reports of harassment and abuse. Knowing and observing Russia men around attractive women, I don't for a minute doubt the stories are true.

[Bobalouie 0]

You're really not in a place to be able to make these kinds of assumptions about my life or what I know about. But I do know what I've seen, and trust me it is not all about people under 30.

Eekee, you travel in a young crowd and despite what you feel about yourself...you're no expert on Russia, and I find your anecdotal war stories interesting but based on a sample small enough to mean nothing. And I think younger men show a soft vulnerable presence that brings out the wolves. I've never been afraid in Russia...day or night. I've had to stare down a few drunks and punks but no big deal. My concern was for one specific issue...MOM based on reports of harassment and abuse. Knowing and observing Russia men around attractive women, I don't for a minute doubt the stories are true.

And your not really in a place to tell me whos safety I pay for. I dont worry about myself, I worry about her.

[mox 298]

I'm reading a lot of specific points that I agree with, and some that I don't, from just about everybody. FWIW I never felt in danger as a foreigner, in fact just the opposite. But I think dismissing ekee's experiences out of hand would be folly. No matter her age, there's something to be said about "boots on the ground" experience.

Also I just couldn't let an argument go by without jumping right in the middle of it.

Edited April 8, 2008 by mox

[Bobalouie 0]

I'm reading a lot of specific points that I agree with, and some that I don't, from just about everybody. FWIW I never felt in danger as a foreigner, in fact just the opposite. But I think dismissing ekee's experiences out of hand would be folly. No matter her age, there's something to be said about "boots on the ground" experience.

Also I just couldn't let an argument go by without jumping right in the middle of it.

Mox "the antagonizer" Pitbull Animal

[mox 298]

Mox "the antagonizer" Pitbull Animal