Foreign Opinion & the US Constitution

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Really and what does that have to do with their views on the constitution? I read more trashing of this country and its people in your posts than 1,678 hours of Reverend Wright sermons.

'Magic is over' for U.S., says French foreign minister.

I bet if we went to any international forum and ask them what they think of the US constitution many would get a news flash.

PS Funny you mention Wright. He is a good example of why the constitution has failed.

What is the quote from the French foreign minister? Was it with regards to the consitution? Please provide a link

I've lived abroad for nearly a third of my life - I'm yet to encounter this vitriolic dislike for the US constitution.

I don't know, some might argue the first amendment failed when a guest in our country uses his broadband connection to post constant complaints about the US on internet message board.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Here's the story. While I think that assessment of international relations is accurate - it says nothing about foreign politicians or citizens think about the US Constitution.

PARIS — Bernard Kouchner, the foreign minister of France, said Tuesday that whoever succeeds President Bush in the White House will have to restore the United States' battered image and standing overseas, the International Herald Tribune reported.

Speaking at the launch of a Forum for New Diplomacy in Paris, Kouchner said the United States will never be the country it was before the Bush presidency and will have to work to repair its reputation, especially since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

"I think the magic is over," Kouchner told the International Herald Tribune. "It will never be as it was before."

He added that, although it will take time, the new president will have “many means to re-establish the image” of a country whose reputation is suffering.

Kouchner also discussed holding out hope of talking with Hamas, the Palestinian faction that rules the Gaza Strip but has been ostracized by the West and by its Palestinian rival, Fatah.

"We have to talk with our enemies," he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,337410,00.html

1. 24/7 electricity

2. shower with a good pressure and whatever temperature you like

3. clean public toilets loaded with toilet paper

4. paved sidewalks and roadways

5. being able to use bluetooth earpiece without fear of it being ripped from your ear

6. a well stocked refrigerator

7. access to at home computer/internet/washer dryer

8. AIR CONDITION

9. clean tap water

10. FREEDOM

Bluetooth above Freedom?

[panamania79 2]

umm, this thread is supposed to be about things we take for granted in the US... and here you go again bashing the US ...lol

Yeah there are a lot of things better when compared to South American or other poverty stricken countries. It would be like someone going to a poor Indian village with $1,000 and thinking wow I am so rich. Yes rich when compared to the people living in the village but poor when compared to anyone else on the same playing field.

Not necessarily.There are plenty of parts of South America that are not poverty stricken.Have you ever been to Bogota or pre-Chavez Caracas ?

Most people I meet abroad don't interpret the US constitution like you do.

It's funny you say that because the day I got my visa in Sydney I had lunch with some guys from the UK and they where giving me #### with regards to moving to the US.

How impressive that you defied them and moved here anyway.

Extremely impressive.

[Heracles 417]

I've lived abroad for nearly a third of my life - I'm yet to encounter this vitriolic dislike for the US constitution.

I don't know, some might argue the first amendment failed when a guest in our country uses his broadband connection to post constant complaints about the US on internet message board.

Well that is a matter of perspective. I have great respect for the foundation of the nation. I just do not like where it has gone after the late 60's. The reason I do not like the constitution is that it is too vague and does not represent the challenges of the 21st century. I also do not believe it protects the freedom and rights of good honest people. Countries have come and gone based on their constitutional equivalents. Also keep in mind that my view of the constitution does not represent my view of the nation or its people.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Imua 0]

Tibetan monks can demonstrate in front of the Chinese Embassy in NYC without having their heads bashed in with bamboo sticks... f$$$ KTM police....

[Heracles 417]

How impressive that you defied them and moved here anyway.

Extremely impressive.

Not exactly considering that you need to live somewhere to get a true understanding of what the place is like.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I've lived abroad for nearly a third of my life - I'm yet to encounter this vitriolic dislike for the US constitution.

I don't know, some might argue the first amendment failed when a guest in our country uses his broadband connection to post constant complaints about the US on internet message board.

Well that is a matter of perspective. I have great respect for the foundation of the nation. I just do not like where it has gone after the late 60's. The reason I do not like the constitution is that it is too vague and does not represent the challenges of the 21st century. Countries have come and gone based on their constitutional equivalents. Also keep in mind that my view of the constitution does not represent my view of the nation or its people.

The US Constitution is not a view but a framework for the rights and liberties of the citizens. Whether you think it jives with your idea of rights and liberties is irrelevant. While I can respect an argument over the interpretation, I can't see giving much credence to foreigner like yourself declaring that the US Constitution as it stands is flawed.

[GabiandVi 34]

If the Constitution is not admired abroad, why have so many countries based their own constitutions on it? If you want to talk about the ####### roads, etc., go for that, but you lose all credibility when you say the Constitution is "far from admired". I don't know where you get that from. Please explain. I've been living abroad for the last 12 years, working with people from all over the world, mostly from 1st world countries, though some from developing and 3rd world. While I hear a lot of anti-American rants and anti-American regrets, I have ALWAYS heard admiration for the Constitution of the US. I'm sincerely confused by that statement. This isn't an attack or a defensive response. I am sincerely confused. I've never heard this idea before that the US Constitution is thought to be substandard.

Again, please explain because I like to hear the other side before I decide if I'm right or wrong and I can see nothing wrong with the US Constitution. If you are referring to the 2nd ammendment in the bill of rights, I don't think that amounts to the US Constitution being "far from admired." What am I missing.

Where should I start. Maybe with the misinterpretation of the first amendment. Or the fixation certain people have with tearing religion out of the country. Or the number of rights criminals have and are protected by.

What does the constitution protect , the right to live in a ghetto the right to trash a nation, the right to do as one please irrespective of the negative consequences of their actions, the right to voice your opinion abroad and think that everyone else wants to hear it. Are we talking about the same constitution that people now take out of context and abuse it for their gain. The same people who hate the 2nd amendment but refuse to accept the context of the 1st amendment. How many thousand of criminals have been let off or not arrested because of their 'rights being violated' rather than the victim's right to be alive. In how many other countries can one sue for something as simple as spilling hot coffee on themselves or sue a caravan maker for not advising them that when someone activates the cruise control that does not mean the vehicle will drive itself. Or a constitution that allows someone to jump a border and simply give birth to a child in the country and then claim citizenship. The list goes on and I could actually be here all day.

Based on and used are two different things. The other thing is, how many people from other 1st world countries are actually migrating to the US. If it wasn't for my wife I would not have migrated here. If it wasn't for the various stages of the visa that would have to be repeated if we left, we would have already moved back to Aus.

I still don't see any fault with the Constitution. You are talking about problems with Americans. You have not answered my question. Please explain why the contstitution is "far from admired." I'm honestly still confused by this. I had thought maybe you knew something I did not, but now I'm beginning to think that you have no argument. As for people misinterpreting the first ammendment. I believe in Australia, where you come from, you have exactly the same right. If the US Constitution is "far from admired" due to the first ammendment, then it's like saying you don't admire the Constitution because it protects human life while people who are governed under that constitution don't respect human life. You obviously don't disagree with the Constitution. You disagree with the actions of the people. Just as you would uphold those same rights established in the Constitution in your country. I.e. the fisrst ammendment rights.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Tibetan monks can demonstrate in front of the Chinese Embassy in NYC without having their heads bashed in with bamboo sticks... f$$$ KTM police....

Yep and in mainland China I read today that a man was jailed for 5 years for starting a petition entitled "We Want Human Rights, not the Olympics".

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If the Constitution is not admired abroad, why have so many countries based their own constitutions on it? If you want to talk about the ####### roads, etc., go for that, but you lose all credibility when you say the Constitution is "far from admired". I don't know where you get that from. Please explain. I've been living abroad for the last 12 years, working with people from all over the world, mostly from 1st world countries, though some from developing and 3rd world. While I hear a lot of anti-American rants and anti-American regrets, I have ALWAYS heard admiration for the Constitution of the US. I'm sincerely confused by that statement. This isn't an attack or a defensive response. I am sincerely confused. I've never heard this idea before that the US Constitution is thought to be substandard.

Again, please explain because I like to hear the other side before I decide if I'm right or wrong and I can see nothing wrong with the US Constitution. If you are referring to the 2nd ammendment in the bill of rights, I don't think that amounts to the US Constitution being "far from admired." What am I missing.

Where should I start. Maybe with the misinterpretation of the first amendment. Or the fixation certain people have with tearing religion out of the country. Or the number of rights criminals have and are protected by.

What does the constitution protect , the right to live in a ghetto the right to trash a nation, the right to do as one please irrespective of the negative consequences of their actions, the right to voice your opinion abroad and think that everyone else wants to hear it. Are we talking about the same constitution that people now take out of context and abuse it for their gain. The same people who hate the 2nd amendment but refuse to accept the context of the 1st amendment. How many thousand of criminals have been let off or not arrested because of their 'rights being violated' rather than the victim's right to be alive. In how many other countries can one sue for something as simple as spilling hot coffee on themselves or sue a caravan maker for not advising them that when someone activates the cruise control that does not mean the vehicle will drive itself. Or a constitution that allows someone to jump a border and simply give birth to a child in the country and then claim citizenship. The list goes on and I could actually be here all day.

Based on and used are two different things. The other thing is, how many people from other 1st world countries are actually migrating to the US. If it wasn't for my wife I would not have migrated here. If it wasn't for the various stages of the visa that would have to be repeated if we left, we would have already moved back to Aus.

I still don't see any fault with the Constitution. You are talking about problems with Americans. You have not answered my question. Please explain why the contstitution is "far from admired." I'm honestly still confused by this. I had thought maybe you knew something I did not, but now I'm beginning to think that you have no argument. As for people misinterpreting the first ammendment. I believe in Australia, where you come from, you have exactly the same right. If the US Constitution is "far from admired" due to the first ammendment, then it's like saying you don't admire the Constitution because it protects human life while people who are governed under that constitution don't respect human life. You obviously don't disagree with the Constitution. You disagree with the actions of the people. Just as you would uphold those same rights established in the Constitution in your country. I.e. the fisrst ammendment rights.

As to the Constitution not being admired internationally I wonder if we're talking "pub talk" or actual political debate.

TV talk shows and talk radio are the ones harping on about the shortcomings of the constitution with their dubious "wars" on culture, the middle class or Christmas. Helps them sell books I guess - but nothing like creating a debate where none exists.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Number 6

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How impressive that you defied them and moved here anyway.

Extremely impressive.

Not exactly considering that you need to live somewhere to get a true understanding of what the place is like.

Do you mean like the city of Los Angeles and the States of California and New Jersey?

You've not 'lived' in any of those... have you?

Edited March 25, 2008 by Number 6

[Heracles 417]

I still don't see any fault with the Constitution. You are talking about problems with Americans. You have not answered my question. Please explain why the contstitution is "far from admired." I'm honestly still confused by this. I had thought maybe you knew something I did not, but now I'm beginning to think that you have no argument. As for people misinterpreting the first ammendment. I believe in Australia, where you come from, you have exactly the same right. If the US Constitution is "far from admired" due to the first ammendment, then it's like saying you don't admire the Constitution because it protects human life while people who are governed under that constitution don't respect human life. You obviously don't disagree with the Constitution. You disagree with the actions of the people. Just as you would uphold those same rights established in the Constitution in your country. I.e. the fisrst ammendment rights.

The Australian constitution is dynamic and can be changed when deemed necessary to protect the nation or society in general. Second of all the first amendment was clearly written, as in many other nations, to protect freedom of political speech and not the status quo 'anything goes' it is being abused for here. It does not take a genius to take a stroll in any US city and see where the constitution is now failing. Where criminals and "gangstas" are being protected by the first and 5th amendments. Where people are destorying neighborhoods but this behavior is protected by the 1st amendment. Why do you think organized crime and gangs can prosper so freely in the US. Why else can someone who has harmed and hurt others be freed based on technicalities of the law. The constitution was written in an era and based on challenges which no longer exist for the nation. A lot of things considered common sense back then where simply not legislated against. Context is something many clearing cannot comprehend. Context of the time the constitution was written in.

So in terms of the constitution not being admired; Yes, One of the most common complaints and arguments people abroad have with me is over the laws here. And after living here for over 2 years I can see why.

Edited March 25, 2008 by Boo-Yah!

[Heracles 417]

Do you mean like the city of Los Angeles and the States of California and New Jersey?

You've not 'lived' in any of those... have you?

First of all lets get something straight. There is nothing New about Jersey. Second of all, someone does not have to live in a city to dislike it. Understanding what makes a country tick is a completely different story.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The Australian constitution is dynamic and can be changed when deemed necessary to protect the nation or society in general.

By national referendum. Not too much different to the process to amend the US constitution.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I still don't see any fault with the Constitution. You are talking about problems with Americans. You have not answered my question. Please explain why the contstitution is "far from admired." I'm honestly still confused by this. I had thought maybe you knew something I did not, but now I'm beginning to think that you have no argument. As for people misinterpreting the first ammendment. I believe in Australia, where you come from, you have exactly the same right. If the US Constitution is "far from admired" due to the first ammendment, then it's like saying you don't admire the Constitution because it protects human life while people who are governed under that constitution don't respect human life. You obviously don't disagree with the Constitution. You disagree with the actions of the people. Just as you would uphold those same rights established in the Constitution in your country. I.e. the fisrst ammendment rights.

The Australian constitution is dynamic and can be changed when deemed necessary to protect the nation or society in general. Second of all the first amendment was clearly written, as in many other nations, to protect freedom of political speech and not the status quo 'anything goes' it is being abused for here. It does not take a genius to take a stroll in any US city and see where the constitution is now failing. Where criminals and "gangstas" are being protected by the first and 5th amendments. Where people are destorying neighborhoods but this behavior is protected by the 1st amendment. Why do you think organized crime and gangs can prosper so freely in the US. Why else can someone who has harmed and hurt others be freed based on technicalities of the law. The constitution was written in an era and based on challenges which no longer exist for the nation. A lot of things considered common sense back then where simply not legislated against. Context is something many clearing cannot comprehend. Context of the time the constitution was written in.

So in terms of the constitution not being admired; Yes, One of the most common complaints and arguments people abroad have with me is over the laws here. And after living here for over 2 years I can see why.