My wife left me!

[dmhweb 0]

You all need to lighten up!

Sat always has good and generous advice.

As I understand it Olga gets mad at Sat (Mark) for spending too much? time on this board (could be ). She hijacked his account and posted the OP to get back at him.

Some of the n00b's on here don't quite get this and have taken offense.

I'd say the "suckers" part was more in jest than anything else, besides, how do we really know it was Sat and not Olga playing with Sats account again?

Does it really matter?

[kud 0]

The good news is I do not log on during weekends, so I guess I missed all the fun.

[Satellite 1]

Yup, we have free speech in this country, but that still does not give you the right to say whatever you want, anytime you want. If you don't believe me, walk into a bank and scream "this is a robbery, everyone on the floor" or walk up to the security folks at the airport the next time you are there and scream "I have a bomb". Try your "it was all a joke, no one got hurt because I didn't have a gun or a bomb" defense. See how far you get with that argument counselor. For an aspiring lawyer, you sure seem to be deficient in the common sense and ethical behavior department.

The examples you bring up are methods of unprotected speech. Here are a few more examples to add to your list:

(1) Advocacy of unlawful conduct

(2) Defamation

(3) Obscenity

(4) Fighting Words

(5) Deceitful, untruthful, and misleading forms of commercial speech

Your examples fall under the first category. You can add screaming "fire" in a crowded movie theater. That is the classical case. Now if you think criticizing (i.e. opinions) someone falls into any of the above five categories, you are in trouble.

[slim 1,533]

I'll jump back into the fray here and (sorry didn't quote everyone) respond first to mox when he posted that I was trying to cover Satellite's responses as simply a cultural thing that we westerners couldn't understand. Not exactly what I meant but close. I'll simply say that when you have a young (pissed off) Russian wife living with you in the States and she does something that wouldn't normally be done in the States, there's not a whole lot you can do to rectify the situation and if you're lucky you can laugh at it. Too bad it has to be at others' expense but when it comes down to it, is it better to have the Russia forum's panties in a bunch or your wife's? And I'm in no way shape or form trying to say that Satellite doesn't understand American culture to the point where he inadvertantly offended everyone, all I'm saying is he avoided being even more in the dog house and he and his wife got to enjoy themselves a little bit.

Work. School. Sleep. Trying to squeeze in some "us" time and trying not to piss her off in the mean time. I'm not jumping in on his side saying he's right or wrong, I'm simply saying that if your wife isn't here already and you're not working and going to school (and so is she) then you're probably posting things with a whole lot more emotion and a whole lot more time to type.

Simply put, once you're Journey switches to "living the Dream" here in the States, you're going to give two-$#!Ts about how the people on VJ feel about you. Sure, it's nice and it's wonderful, but your reality is living under the same roof with you already, and she (and her happiness) takes priority over you stupid blat visa blat journey blat. (That was a direct quote, by the way.)

Next, on to seanconneryii, you hit it spot-on with your reply to my post. I did play "devil's advocate" and I am the contrarian here. I don't get emotionally involved in this forum. Sure, I do feel for people and I do say "Oh man" when I read something like the OP, but I'm not going to agree with anyone that says Satellite should leave the forum because he called others suckers. Call it "rock star adoration" or whatever you want, but for me it's a matter of simply being honest about why we're all on here and then having the integrity to stick to it. If you want to hold me accountable for that, go ahead. Should Satellite get a free pass for calling people suckers? That's up to you. But if it were up to me, it'd roll right off my back as I did a little more reading on the history of the Mr. and Mrs. Satellite relationship. I know you're skin isn't as thick as mine and you're in a different situation, but try to view this from his situation, not yours!

And to close this thread down because of tensions it causes is like telling your wife to go home because the stress she causes.

All I'm saying by my posts here is simply this - I like VJ. I like all of you. I genuinely do have feelings for what is said and posted on here. However, my wife and I, and the problems or things that we do in our relationship is going to trump whatever feelings get hurt here on VJ. And when something happens in our "real life" together at home, I could give a d@mn what my "virtual buddies" think about me or her.

And truth be told... most of you are going to disappear in a few months anyway. Are we going to be sad because you're gone? Maybe. But, we're all going to take solace in the fact that you've now moved on with your "real life." And for people like Satellite, who continues to take time out of his "real life", time that all of you seem to measure (counting days from approvals, counting down interview dates, "one more precious day closer", etc., etc., etc.) are all failing to remember that he's taking that precious time out of his day to be here with his virtual buddies instead of doing something with his "real wife."

And Slim I think you also owe an apology to those Russians here whom you so easily generalized as arrogant and indifferent by definition.

So you're going to deny that Russians, by very definition, are arrogant and indifferent?

If you can show me a Russian being humble or ashamed, I'll consider an apology. Until then, I'm sticking to my generalization.

And don't try to show me pictures of Russians crying after the war or something like that. Grief in no way signifies compassion, it's a response. Most of the other Russians in the picture are saying "It's not my business. Why I must be sad because of this tragedy. It is tragedy sure, but it's not tragedy for me. And anyway it is war. Yes of course people will be die in war. What can we do?" (And then they make that little hand-clapping-clearing into the "I don't know" and go about their business.)

Prove me wrong. I have hope that there are Russians out there who aren't arrogant and indifferent. Who are humble and compassionate. Who can be empathetic without being condescending.

But so far, Satellite isn't setting a very good example. I know he's not Russian, but the same Soviet "Why should I care about you?" mentality that helped him form his views and responses has also shaped the views and responses of most of the Russians I know.

And I realize not everyone is a certain way all the time. Sure, even I cried when Old Yeller died. But, generalizations can be made about me and everyone else with some accuracy, no?

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

As Susan Powter used to shout, "Stop The Insanity!"

Come on Sat, stop the poking. Let this one die.

[Jason-Sasha 1]

Great post, Kirk. well said. But I must say that Slim has some good points as well. This damn thread is certainly not lacking any excitement.

[Okiebollweevil 0]

Well I guess we're not gonna let it die. Dammit, I just hosed off all the mud and put on clean clothes. But hey, I'll jump back in...

I'll jump back into the fray here and (sorry didn't quote everyone) respond first to mox when he posted that I was trying to cover Satellite's responses as simply a cultural thing that we westerners couldn't understand. Not exactly what I meant but close. I'll simply say that when you have a young (pissed off) Russian wife living with you in the States and she does something that wouldn't normally be done in the States, there's not a whole lot you can do to rectify the situation and if you're lucky you can laugh at it. Too bad it has to be at others' expense but when it comes down to it, is it better to have the Russia forum's panties in a bunch or your wife's? And I'm in no way shape or form trying to say that Satellite doesn't understand American culture to the point where he inadvertantly offended everyone, all I'm saying is he avoided being even more in the dog house and he and his wife got to enjoy themselves a little bit.

I can dig this. But that's not what's really going on here. Because if that's what was truly going on, Satellite would have come back and just said "sorry folks, my wife hijacked my account, it's not true, nothing to see here." That's all it would have taken. A real apology would have been gravy, but whatevs.

I even forgave the "sucker" comment. It stung, it pissed me off, but I swallowed my pride and was prepared to move on. Again, if it was a doghouse scenario, then it would have ended right there. Satellite had the option of just not replying or issuing an apology. I did not ask for nor expect the latter, the former would have been just fine to me.

But he went even beyond that, and that's where it became apparent that this was not just a domestic squabble. It might have started that way, but it wound up showing Satellite's true feelings about this community. And hey, he's entitled to his feelings, and unlike some others I think he's even entitled to say what he thinks, up to but not including shouting fire in a theater. In fact, I'd much rather he were crystal clear about his opinions of this membership rather than holding it back. So kudos for that I guess.

Work. School. Sleep. Trying to squeeze in some "us" time and trying not to piss her off in the mean time. I'm not jumping in on his side saying he's right or wrong, I'm simply saying that if your wife isn't here already and you're not working and going to school (and so is she) then you're probably posting things with a whole lot more emotion and a whole lot more time to type.

Also agreed. But again, I think you're reading Satellite's motivations all wrong. Perhaps he can clarify.

Simply put, once you're Journey switches to "living the Dream" here in the States, you're going to give two-$#!Ts about how the people on VJ feel about you. Sure, it's nice and it's wonderful, but your reality is living under the same roof with you already, and she (and her happiness) takes priority over you stupid blat visa blat journey blat. (That was a direct quote, by the way.)

Also agree. In fact, if it ever becomes an issue in my marriage, you can expect an hasta la vista from me, post haste.

Should Satellite get a free pass for calling people suckers? That's up to you. But if it were up to me, it'd roll right off my back as I did a little more reading on the history of the Mr. and Mrs. Satellite relationship. I know you're skin isn't as thick as mine and you're in a different situation, but try to view this from his situation, not yours!

This is actually good advice, and I think a lot of us really did give Satellite a free pass, even after the "sucker" comment. But it also raises a really good point that seanconneryii addressed in a previous post, and that is: if Satellite doesn't give a rats ### what anyone here thinks, why the occasionall forum drama that is seemingly designed to pull our emotional chords? Given recent events it really does seem like Satellite is toying with us. Maybe he could clarify this as well.

And to close this thread down because of tensions it causes is like telling your wife to go home because the stress she causes.

I think the analogy fails, but hell if we want to keep the thread going I'm all for it as long as it continues to be useful discussion. Maybe I'm not seeing what I think I'm seeing, although every one of Sat's posts continues to reinforce my perception. The moderators will almost always close a thread at the OP's request, so Satellite need only contact a moderator if he gets tired of us.

All I'm saying by my posts here is simply this - I like VJ. I like all of you. I genuinely do have feelings for what is said and posted on here. However, my wife and I, and the problems or things that we do in our relationship is going to trump whatever feelings get hurt here on VJ. And when something happens in our "real life" together at home, I could give a d@mn what my "virtual buddies" think about me or her.

Can I get you a little nail polish with that Nancy?

And Slim I think you also owe an apology to those Russians here whom you so easily generalized as arrogant and indifferent by definition.

So you're going to deny that Russians, by very definition, are arrogant and indifferent?

There is a difference between proud and arrogant. The vast majority of Russians I have met are proud. I've met only a few arrogant Russians (some of them *ahem* online). And Russian indifference is just body language. It's kind of the equivalent of the American tendency to "strike a pose" when you feel the need to look cool. Russians are insanely curious, they just don't want to look like they are.

However, if you need proof of Russian compassion, I'll direct you to

It looks to be a BBC production, but pay attention to the Russian social workers.

Some thoughts if I might. Many of you are going through a stressful period of your life, I can empathize as my wife comes from Russia and I haven't been on the forum until our AOS was held up at the TSC. Thought I would come back to VJ to see what is going on with others in my predicament. At this time instead of spending your valuable time berating this fellow and his wife might I suggest that you start preparing for the time your loved one arrives, this country and people are so much different than Russia, and it is going to take some real effort and sacrifices on your part to assist your new spouse in adjusting. Try finding a Russian store in your neighborhood where they can shop for favorite goodies, if they bring children check into the schools and see what the children are going to be faced with language wise. My wife for example is going back to college (difference than in Russia a college is distinctly different than a university), and besides being blessed with excellent English she decide to enroll in a TOEFL class to sharpen her skills. Look to see if you have a Russian Orthodox or Ukranian Orthodox church nearby where your spouse can fellowship with native Russians or Russian speakers. Check out the Russian-American newspaper published in Norman Oklahoma they may give you some assitance in dealing with the problem, check with dish network or direct TV about satellite reception of Russian TV stations, (my wife loves this) be prepared for a long period of adjustment. As the Tiger suggests stop the insanity and get to discussing relevant things like guns, so if you were in a firefight would your preference be a SAW or M60? Don't bring these squabbles here. I have studied the posts of Satellite and he seems to be knowledgable of the law, well versed in immigration law, and folks the California bar is one tough cookie, support him and his Russian bride as best you can and look forward to the day when your Russian is here with you and all this with be forgotten, perhaps remembered with a smile because you know the most important thing is that lady with you. I came to this particular forum to seek common experiences with bringing a Russian spouse to the USA and think that should be your one and only focus. Keep up the good posts ignore the ones that are bothersome to you and you will be much better off supporting each other.

[obender 0]

people here became so serious these days... congratulations on creating multi-page discussion from two sentence joke...

Slim, generalizations although very attractive emotionally, are somewhat prickly things... simple illustration: abroad americans are mostly generalized as morons. what's worse though many people tend to easily find proof for their "beliefs".

obender

[Blues Fairy 0]

So you're going to deny that Russians, by very definition, are arrogant and indifferent?

If you can show me a Russian being humble or ashamed, I'll consider an apology. Until then, I'm sticking to my generalization. (...) Prove me wrong. I have hope that there are Russians out there who aren't arrogant and indifferent. Who are humble and compassionate. Who can be empathetic without being condescending.

Yes I am going to deny that I, due to my being a Russian, am arrogant and indifferent by very definition, and I do not see any occasion to demonstrate my humility and shame to you, Slim, until you can find a valid occasion to humble or shame me.

[Kazan' Tiger 1]

Hear hear!

At this time instead of spending your valuable time berating this fellow and his wife might I suggest that you start preparing for the time your loved one arrives, this country...

But I can do both.

Good suggestions on preparing by the way, but don't worry too much about the other stuff. Passions run high here on this forum, but they also run their course quickly. Soon this thread will fall off the front page and be a distant memory. I can't say that all will be forgotten or forgiven, but things will be back to business as usual in no time. It's just the way of things here.

The thought occurs to me too that now that the drive-by's have mostly died out, perhaps real and productive discourse can take place.

Edited February 25, 2008 by Kazan' Tiger

[visaveteran1 33]

Well I guess we're not gonna let it die. Dammit, I just hosed off all the mud and put on clean clothes. But hey, I'll jump back in...

I'll jump back into the fray here and (sorry didn't quote everyone) respond first to mox when he posted that I was trying to cover Satellite's responses as simply a cultural thing that we westerners couldn't understand. Not exactly what I meant but close. I'll simply say that when you have a young (pissed off) Russian wife living with you in the States and she does something that wouldn't normally be done in the States, there's not a whole lot you can do to rectify the situation and if you're lucky you can laugh at it. Too bad it has to be at others' expense but when it comes down to it, is it better to have the Russia forum's panties in a bunch or your wife's? And I'm in no way shape or form trying to say that Satellite doesn't understand American culture to the point where he inadvertantly offended everyone, all I'm saying is he avoided being even more in the dog house and he and his wife got to enjoy themselves a little bit.

I can dig this. But that's not what's really going on here. Because if that's what was truly going on, Satellite would have come back and just said "sorry folks, my wife hijacked my account, it's not true, nothing to see here." That's all it would have taken. A real apology would have been gravy, but whatevs.

I even forgave the "sucker" comment. It stung, it pissed me off, but I swallowed my pride and was prepared to move on. Again, if it was a doghouse scenario, then it would have ended right there. Satellite had the option of just not replying or issuing an apology. I did not ask for nor expect the latter, the former would have been just fine to me.

But he went even beyond that, and that's where it became apparent that this was not just a domestic squabble. It might have started that way, but it wound up showing Satellite's true feelings about this community. And hey, he's entitled to his feelings, and unlike some others I think he's even entitled to say what he thinks, up to but not including shouting fire in a theater. In fact, I'd much rather he were crystal clear about his opinions of this membership rather than holding it back. So kudos for that I guess.

Work. School. Sleep. Trying to squeeze in some "us" time and trying not to piss her off in the mean time. I'm not jumping in on his side saying he's right or wrong, I'm simply saying that if your wife isn't here already and you're not working and going to school (and so is she) then you're probably posting things with a whole lot more emotion and a whole lot more time to type.

Also agreed. But again, I think you're reading Satellite's motivations all wrong. Perhaps he can clarify.

Simply put, once you're Journey switches to "living the Dream" here in the States, you're going to give two-$#!Ts about how the people on VJ feel about you. Sure, it's nice and it's wonderful, but your reality is living under the same roof with you already, and she (and her happiness) takes priority over you stupid blat visa blat journey blat. (That was a direct quote, by the way.)

Also agree. In fact, if it ever becomes an issue in my marriage, you can expect an hasta la vista from me, post haste.

Should Satellite get a free pass for calling people suckers? That's up to you. But if it were up to me, it'd roll right off my back as I did a little more reading on the history of the Mr. and Mrs. Satellite relationship. I know you're skin isn't as thick as mine and you're in a different situation, but try to view this from his situation, not yours!

This is actually good advice, and I think a lot of us really did give Satellite a free pass, even after the "sucker" comment. But it also raises a really good point that seanconneryii addressed in a previous post, and that is: if Satellite doesn't give a rats ### what anyone here thinks, why the occasionall forum drama that is seemingly designed to pull our emotional chords? Given recent events it really does seem like Satellite is toying with us. Maybe he could clarify this as well.

And to close this thread down because of tensions it causes is like telling your wife to go home because the stress she causes.

I think the analogy fails, but hell if we want to keep the thread going I'm all for it as long as it continues to be useful discussion. Maybe I'm not seeing what I think I'm seeing, although every one of Sat's posts continues to reinforce my perception. The moderators will almost always close a thread at the OP's request, so Satellite need only contact a moderator if he gets tired of us.

All I'm saying by my posts here is simply this - I like VJ. I like all of you. I genuinely do have feelings for what is said and posted on here. However, my wife and I, and the problems or things that we do in our relationship is going to trump whatever feelings get hurt here on VJ. And when something happens in our "real life" together at home, I could give a d@mn what my "virtual buddies" think about me or her.

Can I get you a little nail polish with that Nancy?

And Slim I think you also owe an apology to those Russians here whom you so easily generalized as arrogant and indifferent by definition.

So you're going to deny that Russians, by very definition, are arrogant and indifferent?

There is a difference between proud and arrogant. The vast majority of Russians I have met are proud. I've met only a few arrogant Russians (some of them *ahem* online). And Russian indifference is just body language. It's kind of the equivalent of the American tendency to "strike a pose" when you feel the need to look cool. Russians are insanely curious, they just don't want to look like they are.

However, if you need proof of Russian compassion, I'll direct you to

It looks to be a BBC production, but pay attention to the Russian social workers.

Some thoughts if I might. Many of you are going through a stressful period of your life, I can empathize as my wife comes from Russia and I haven't been on the forum until our AOS was held up at the TSC. Thought I would come back to VJ to see what is going on with others in my predicament. At this time instead of spending your valuable time berating this fellow and his wife might I suggest that you start preparing for the time your loved one arrives, this country and people are so much different than Russia, and it is going to take some real effort and sacrifices on your part to assist your new spouse in adjusting. Try finding a Russian store in your neighborhood where they can shop for favorite goodies, if they bring children check into the schools and see what the children are going to be faced with language wise. My wife for example is going back to college (difference than in Russia a college is distinctly different than a university), and besides being blessed with excellent English she decide to enroll in a TOEFL class to sharpen her skills. Look to see if you have a Russian Orthodox or Ukranian Orthodox church nearby where your spouse can fellowship with native Russians or Russian speakers. Check out the Russian-American newspaper published in Norman Oklahoma they may give you some assitance in dealing with the problem, check with dish network or direct TV about satellite reception of Russian TV stations, (my wife loves this) be prepared for a long period of adjustment. As the Tiger suggests stop the insanity and get to discussing relevant things like guns, so if you were in a firefight would your preference be a SAW or M60? Don't bring these squabbles here. I have studied the posts of Satellite and he seems to be knowledgable of the law, well versed in immigration law, and folks the California bar is one tough cookie, support him and his Russian bride as best you can and look forward to the day when your Russian is here with you and all this with be forgotten, perhaps remembered with a smile because you know the most important thing is that lady with you. I came to this particular forum to seek common experiences with bringing a Russian spouse to the USA and think that should be your one and only focus. Keep up the good posts ignore the ones that are bothersome to you and you will be much better off supporting each other.

Your comments are not telling us anything new and you appear to me to be speaking down to us here in the forum. A sideways or passive-aggressive way to tell us we're silly children squabbling amongst ourselves while greater things need tending to. Not sure about the "gun" comments, but whatever.

You've added your two cents about Satellite's online etiquette...but you're in a very small group of supporters or "devil's advocates." The majority here don't see it your way and your irksome style is not apt to sway anyone.

Tell us something we don't know next time.

[bakofoil 27]

The thought occurs to me too that now that the drive-by's have mostly died out, perhaps real and productive discourse can take place.

I would be interested to know what the definition of a drive-by post is.

I chose to brush aside Slim's commentary on my post that if I am on VJ for the drama I shouldn't be balking so much at such a dramatic thread. I 'got' the intent of that remark. But the point is that many people post new topics in regional discussions and if the title says 'Approved!' or 'My wife left me' that people outside of the region will rush into offer their congratulations/condolences. I am just as happy to see any approval as I am saddened to see the breakdown of any VJ relationship.

Equally, when I see a member being utterly rude, disrespectful or generalistic towards another member/nation then I feel my contribution is as valid as anyone elses. There are a good many people I respect from the Russia forum, not least because they are good people but also because the complexity of their own journey tends to make many of them an excellent source of information on VJ as a whole.

[KimandRuss 0]

The thought occurs to me too that now that the drive-by's have mostly died out, perhaps real and productive discourse can take place.

I would be interested to know what the definition of a drive-by post is.

I chose to brush aside Slim's commentary on my post that if I am on VJ for the drama I shouldn't be balking so much at such a dramatic thread. I 'got' the intent of that remark. But the point is that many people post new topics in regional discussions and if the title says 'Approved!' or 'My wife left me' that people outside of the region will rush into offer their congratulations/condolences. I am just as happy to see any approval as I am saddened to see the breakdown of any VJ relationship.

Equally, when I see a member being utterly rude, disrespectful or generalistic towards another member/nation then I feel my contribution is as valid as anyone elses. There are a good many people I respect from the Russia forum, not least because they are good people but also because the complexity of their own journey tends to make many of them an excellent source of information on VJ as a whole.

Well stated

[bakofoil 27]

I would be interested to know what the definition of a drive-by post is.

No disrespect intended babs, and I certainly didn't include your post as a drive-by. I'm talking about the quick one-liners that serve no other purpose than to either up one's post count or to have the satisfaction of immersing themselves in the drama. Yours (and some others) don't fall into either category as far as I'm concerned. (sorry, I should have been clearer on my meaning.)

s'ok moxie, I shouldn't have been so touchy. (But I was including you in my complimentary assessment of the Russian forum members)

Now the thread is all loved up again! Horray!

[akdiver 3]

Good lord.

Here is the fact - if this thread bothers you or offends you in any way, rather than wishing it "would just die" - why not just stop reading it? By continuing to read it, and even more, post in it, you are merely demonstrating your interest in what is being said. If you're interested in what is being said, then why would anyone stop posting here?

Now, if you find yourself UNABLE to stop reading it - maybe due to some morbid curiosity, or some odd need to "defend the VJ community" or whatever - I'd suggest that's a personal issue - not the fault of anyone doing the offending. Exercise some self control and stop reading the thread. If everyone does this, it will die of its own accord - a natural death. Continuing to read and post is just putting logs on the fire. Can't be real surprised when the flames are not dying out.

Suppose Satellite called everyone on here a great big dumbass doofus, of huge and unimaginable proportions. Suppose he called everyone losers in the biggest sense of the word, and suppose he even said that you are all fools and that all of your relationships are worthless and infantile, fraudulent and even imaginary. Suppose he says all of these things, right here in his very next message. SO WHAT!?! What do you possibly care? If you do care, seek help. If you don't care, then why bother defending yourself against such statements?

At the end of the day, as usual, people are far too uptight and have far too much time on their hands and end up concerning themselves with unimportant and trivial things.

As for my post - no, I don't care either. I just find the uptight ones entertaining and the thread amusing. But at least I can admit it. Can you?

Cheers!

AKDiver

Edited February 25, 2008 by akdiver